New to FT, build recommendations?

[eat_those_lemons]

Hi!


I recently re-found the FT videos on youtube and they reminded me about foam builds. I tried my hand at designing a few foam builds from scratch, back in middle school but just winging it (XD ) lead to some questionable and short flights. I am now more experienced in flying RC planes having used some 3 and 4 channel pre-built planes.


I know my dad likes RC planes but has not had much luck with actually flying them, I wanted to help him get comfortable actually flying and try building some planes again.


I was wondering if there were any large slow fliers? Where I live the winds pick up pretty often, so flying a small/mini plane is not usually a good option unless you fight the wind/gusts (10 + mph isn't unusual; The Horizon Hobby T-28 1.2m Trojan gets tossed around pretty well)


I was wondering if there were any large slow fliers (ie heavier so they are not affected by the wind as much) and slow due to the lack of super large areas to fly (there is an area that is pretty close I would like to use, there are trees around it but the area is about 200 feet by 50 feet, a little tight so might be unrealistic for a new flier)


Those are pretty tight requirements but if there are any designs people know of that are available or that I could mess with that would be great!
(Maybe a 150% FT cub?)

TL;DR: Want to make a large slow flier for my dads birthday for him to learn on, lots of wind where I live so not having to fight the wind would be helpful in teaching him

 

[Hai-Lee]

I cannot think of a single design suitable for windy/gusty conditions that I would recommend for a beginner apart from a KFM Wing.

If fitted with a flight stabiliser it would be hard to beat.

When the weather gets poor at my local field the last plane you will see in the air is one of the KFM wings. I have seen them crashed into trees, cartwheeled, hit poles in flight and a myriad of would be disasters only to observe the pilot pick up the fallen wing and immediately relaunch it to continue. As beginners WILL crash something that stands a chance of surviving crashes should be considered.

Just my opinion of course!

Have fun!

 

[kdobson83]

Try scaling up. I just did a 125% FT Spitfire and it flys amazing. Slows right down to a slow jog speed but with the GT2820 motor on 3s slinging a 12x6 prop it has power for days. 15 min flights give or take on a 2200. Id imagine if wind is a super issue you can always throw a stabilizer in it. If your using spektrum, lemonrx makes a good stabilizer rx for about $25. Super easy to use and would make wind flying even easier. If you want to slow it down even more, at 125% you could add some split flaps too. But, my basic setup, flys awesome. I think Davids Spitfire design is great. Good for bank and yank training with rudder when you want it.
Anyway, thats my 2 cents. good luck.

 

[DamoRC]

I know my dad likes RC planes but has not had much luck with actually flying them, I wanted to help him get comfortable actually flying and try building some planes again.

there is an area that is pretty close I would like to use, there are trees around it but the area is about 200 feet by 50 feet, a little tight so might be unrealistic for a new flier

I have no probs with the recommendations made by @Hai-Lee or @kdobson83 except for the fact your selected flying spot (200 x 50 feet with potential for winds and surrounded by trees) is going to make this a really difficult learning experience for your dad.

Can you buddy box your Dad? If you are limited to that flying space then as long as you can fly comfortably there, buddy boxing your Dad should help alot.

DamoRC

 

[foamtest]

I completely agree with what @Hai-Lee said with the wing, but I have another possible recommendation. The galaxy glider, it’s big so it can handle the wind and if it’s too light just add dead weight to keep it from being tossed around too much. My friend Aiden is the designed and loaded it up with 2 5200 3s lipos in parallel and almost hit two hours of flight. More info Here.

I hope this helped.

 

[JimCR120]

I would recommend one of the Pusher prop sail"ish" planes like the HK Bixler or similar body style. It has more mass which can make crashes more drastic but the nose out front helps take the beating so your prop and motor don't have to. That mass also helps when dealing with bigger winds but a new pilot should avoid jumping into uneccessary risks. I've found that even windy days are often much calmer around sunset. I would highly suggest aiming for less windy conditions until you have the muscle memory reflexes you need and can maintain them whatever the aircrafts perspective to you.

 

[donalson]

I started with the three pack... flier, nutball, and delta... plus a little bit of sim time... i flew the flier and it was great fun... then I switched to the nutball just as wind picked up... it got carried away and i couldn't bring it back with my limited skill... it landed in the lake

very shortly after I built the bloody brit (brother to the bloody baron)... it didn't mind 10-15mph gusts... I also built the FT versa... once I got the CG right on it (set up as a pusher) she flew great and the wind effected it even less... the aileron control seems to do so much better in wind vs the three channel planes with ruder/elevator only... although the versa was much more work to launch vs the bloody brit.

if you haven't seriously consider a sim... there are a few decent free ones out there, you'll just need a way to hook your TX up to the computer, a $10 usb simulator adapter will do the trick (search amazon/ebay) if nothing it gets your fingers used to the movements and your mind to help understand the inverse relationship when the plane is going away or coming towards you.

keep us posted on what you do and good luck

 

[eat_those_lemons]

@Hai-Lee when you say a kf wing do you mean a wing with a kf airfoil? Or any plane and use a kf airfoil for the wing?

@kdobson83 is it possible to just add permanent flaps? I have not done a lot of looking into just adding them permanently or leading edge flaps. Do you know of any good tips or resources I should look at for info?
I also have not heard of stabilizer rx's but I will look into them!

@DamoRC I will look at if I can get my transmitter to buddy box his

@foamtest i will look at that that definitely sounds like a possibility! Would you say it would be pretty easy for him to learn on? (ie how stable would you say it is?)

@JimCR120 as far as the increased weight are there things you would recommend to help with keeping it more stable in wind gusts?

 

[eat_those_lemons]

@donalson On the Ft versa would you recommend that over the ft flier? with ease to fly in the wind being the bar to measure the planes against

Which flite sims would you recommend, the one that my dad has right now is phoenix rc but that flight sim seems to leave a lot to be desired from what I have experienced with it so far.



For everyone: I have what might be a good idea on what to start with/ what design to modify. Based on my limited understanding would a plane with a high wing and slats + flaps be good to give lots of lift (maybe with a kf airfoil) and then add a lot of weight so that it is more resistant to wind and make it about 1m in wingspan (guessing that would allow me to add enough weight to be able to avoid the wind problem and small enough so it could fly in the small area next to his house)

In addition, adding weight means that you need more lift so you can either generate more lift via increased speed or the airfoil/angle of attack, so if it is supposed to be a slow flier don't add to much weight? Is that correct?

 

[Hai-Lee]

@Hai-Lee when you say a kf wing do you mean a wing with a kf airfoil? Or any plane and use a kf airfoil for the wing?

@kdobson83 is it possible to just add permanent flaps? I have not done a lot of looking into just adding them permanently or leading edge flaps. Do you know of any good tips or resources I should look at for info?
I also have not heard of stabilizer rx's but I will look into them!

@DamoRC I will look at if I can get my transmitter to buddy box his

@foamtest i will look at that that definitely sounds like a possibility! Would you say it would be pretty easy for him to learn on? (ie how stable would you say it is?)

@JimCR120 as far as the increased weight are there things you would recommend to help with keeping it more stable in wind gusts?

My post related to the family of flying wings using KFM airfoils. I have built wuite a number of KFM3 wings and it is the solid nature of the wing that makes it so damage resistant. No Spar of any sort required. Cut out the 5 required FB pieces and glue them together add the firewall and fit the electrics and you right for a bit of fun. I use mostly white glue to glue it all together so the glue takes a while to dry but otherwise it is a Quick and simple build.

There are numerous versions out there but the one I build can be found here:- https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/collaborators-build-1-800-mm-kfm-flying-wing.54085/

Have fun!

 

[eat_those_lemons]

@Hai-Lee Okay looks like a good build! I will look at it, do wings pair well with a rx stabilizer like @kdobson83 suggested?

 

[Hai-Lee]

@Hai-Lee Okay looks like a good build! I will look at it, do wings pair well with a rx stabilizer like @kdobson83 suggested?

Yes it does but to start off keep the gain down slightly.

You will find that if you keep the weight of the motor and battery down it can fly very slowly and it will not keep floating when you try to land it. Without power it sinks quite rapidly and does not need to flare upon landing. Great for getting used to pitch and roll control.

Make sure you setup the low rates for a nice quiet flight and the high rates for a bit of spirited performance.

have fun!

 

[SirGouk]

Hi, i started with the Storch .. It worked out for me but it was quite hard for the Storch

I suggest to go for the Explorer, start with the 3 channel Version and when you're confident iwth it upgrate to the 4 channel Version... and in the meantime go an build the Storch with all the extras ... Flaps and the Tail Wheel .

BR
Christoph

 

[kdobson83]

@Hai-Lee Okay looks like a good build! I will look at it, do wings pair well with a rx stabilizer like @kdobson83 suggested?

Yeah, I have a stabilizer on my FT Arrow. Works really good. Keep the gains low tho, maybe start them at about 25%. If they are too high it'll cause what I call the "death flutter". Mainly on the elevator. Anyway, yes, they work good on wings.

 

[JimCR120]

If you are planning on building it then I would shoot for something around 1 to 1.5 meters or so. The size and the weight that that will come with it will both add to stability.

As for the type of frame, the FT Explorer is one that fits what I was describing before. I like it because WHEN it crashes the prop and motor are tucked away from the damage. High wing aircraft in general will be better for stability. The Storch and Tiny Trainer are both common for new pilots.

Whatever you decide, there is always a trade off. When you go for one thing you'll be sacrificing something else. You decide if the juice is worth the squeeze.

The real benefit to building your own besides the $aving$ is the ease of replacement pieces WHEN you crash. Do you have a hot glue gun yet? If not, get one with the larger sticks (not the mini) and get dual temp. You can get a dual temp Ad Tech at Walmart for aound $10.

All that to say I can't say how big or how heavy for sure but in most cases a soundly built plane of the types we are suggesting should do well but you should make good choices regarding when and where to fly. If it's really that windy and it doesn't die down at night then maybe in a ball park or some similar area that might be surrounded by trees that could keep the strong winds above where you would be practicing.

Eventually all that wind, if it is really that much, could be a blessing too. There is a style of flying called slope soaring that doesn't even need motors and can achieve significantly higher speeds, ludicrous speed even when the conditions are right. But first you must build your reflexes.

 

[basslord1124]

Slow flyer but good with the wind....seems like a tough one to balance. I saw the Galaxy glider mentioned and do agree it probably would be a good fit (I'm in the process of building one as well) The Storch would be an excellent choice as well...very floaty. I am almost sort of wondering if it might be a good idea (for whichever model you pick), to overpower it some so in the event the wind gets you in trouble you have enough power to get out of it.

 

[eat_those_lemons]

@Hai-Lee Your saying the gain on the transmitter? When you say keep the weight down what do you recommend? if I were to do a wing with 150% what powerplant would you recommend? would a Pack C work?

@SirGouk How would you say the storch flies? Is it relatively easy to fly? ie use a buddy box with my dad? How is the lift on it are you able to go pretty slow on it?

@kdobson83 Do you have a lemonrx stabilizer? or do you have one of the official spektrum ones?
What is the death flutter?

@JimCR120 Okay sounds good, I am planning on going with a high wing from what I have been reading.

@basslord1124 Is it possible to do a galaxy glider that is like 50% and then fly it in a much smaller area? or do you lose the wind resistance since it is significantly smaller? I would like to just add more power but the flying area is super small and the ones close by are not much bigger, so hoping to avoid adding to much power


With foam builds/aircraft in general, what makes them able to fly slower? I assume less weight so you need to go slower to get the required amount of lift? If the weight is fixed are you able to keep the speed the same and add more wing surface/add flaps? I know that drag increases with flaps etc, but for a slow flier does drag matter? how does drag relate to lift/required speed?

 

[kdobson83]

@Hai-Lee Your saying the gain on the transmitter? When you say keep the weight down what do you recommend? if I were to do a wing with 150% what powerplant would you recommend? would a Pack C work?

@SirGouk How would you say the storch flies? Is it relatively easy to fly? ie use a buddy box with my dad? How is the lift on it are you able to go pretty slow on it?

@kdobson83 Do you have a lemonrx stabilizer? or do you have one of the official spektrum ones?
What is the death flutter?

@JimCR120 Okay sounds good, I am planning on going with a high wing from what I have been reading.

@basslord1124 Is it possible to do a galaxy glider that is like 50% and then fly it in a much smaller area? or do you lose the wind resistance since it is significantly smaller? I would like to just add more power but the flying area is super small and the ones close by are not much bigger, so hoping to avoid adding to much power


With foam builds/aircraft in general, what makes them able to fly slower? I assume less weight so you need to go slower to get the required amount of lift? If the weight is fixed are you able to keep the speed the same and add more wing surface/add flaps? I know that drag increases with flaps etc, but for a slow flier does drag matter? how does drag relate to lift/required speed?

Yes, I have a couple of the lemon stabilizer rx's including a stabilizer + that has return to home, self right, and circle modes. They all work great. What I call the death flutter is were you have the gain turned up too high on a stabilizer and it over corrects itself, then it trys to correct the over correct with more over correction. Lol Basically it makes the plane wobble vilently. It's worse on the aileron channel than anything. To correct it you can turn off your stabilization with your switch or slow down, then land and turn the gain down. Usually happens at higher speeds.

 

[Hai-Lee]

@Hai-Lee Your saying the gain on the transmitter? When you say keep the weight down what do you recommend? if I were to do a wing with 150% what powerplant would you recommend? would a Pack C work?

@SirGouk How would you say the storch flies? Is it relatively easy to fly? ie use a buddy box with my dad? How is the lift on it are you able to go pretty slow on it?

@kdobson83 Do you have a lemonrx stabilizer? or do you have one of the official spektrum ones?
What is the death flutter?

@JimCR120 Okay sounds good, I am planning on going with a high wing from what I have been reading.

@basslord1124 Is it possible to do a galaxy glider that is like 50% and then fly it in a much smaller area? or do you lose the wind resistance since it is significantly smaller? I would like to just add more power but the flying area is super small and the ones close by are not much bigger, so hoping to avoid adding to much power


With foam builds/aircraft in general, what makes them able to fly slower? I assume less weight so you need to go slower to get the required amount of lift? If the weight is fixed are you able to keep the speed the same and add more wing surface/add flaps? I know that drag increases with flaps etc, but for a slow flier does drag matter? how does drag relate to lift/required speed?

The gain I refer to is the gain of the flight stabilizer. You have to be careful not to make it too sensitive or it will posoise and wobble all over the sky!
As for motor and assuming the KFM wing is the plane of discussion You could use the C pack but then it would be significantly heavier, and require a CF spar to maintain its rigidity. We fly the KFMs, (standard 800mm wingspan) using the funfighter motors, (2200Kv), on 3S and even one on 4S. They tend to be rockets!!

Have fun!

 

[basslord1124]

@basslord1124 Is it possible to do a galaxy glider that is like 50% and then fly it in a much smaller area? or do you lose the wind resistance since it is significantly smaller? I would like to just add more power but the flying area is super small and the ones close by are not much bigger, so hoping to avoid adding to much power


With foam builds/aircraft in general, what makes them able to fly slower? I assume less weight so you need to go slower to get the required amount of lift? If the weight is fixed are you able to keep the speed the same and add more wing surface/add flaps? I know that drag increases with flaps etc, but for a slow flier does drag matter? how does drag relate to lift/required speed?

Yeah you could do the glider at 50% and fly it in a smaller area if need be. Seems like changing the size of the models is a common thing in the community. It will probably get tossed around a little easier, BUT I would say it will still be manageable. I would probably bet too that sometimes the wind speed may vary at different altitudes. So that gust you are feeling on the ground might not be what is up at 100-200 feet.

Wing loading is a pretty big factor in terms of being able to fly slow. That's basically weight of the model divided by wing area. I believe light wing loading is preferred for slow flight. So light weight electronics and a good size wing.

If you want to, there's a guy over at rcgroups.com named balsa or carbon. He does dollar tree foamboard planes, some FT stuff, etc. He's done special stuff on slow flying models for beginners. He even did his version of the Old Fogey that flies so slow you could probably outrun it by walking!