Newbie electronics help

[twistnineninesix]

Just made the following purchase from flitetest, and having difficulty making things work:
FT Tiny Trainer Value Bundle 4157122042
Tattu 650mAh 4S1P 75C 14.8V Lipo battery with XT30 plug 4067904002
Spektrum DXS 7-Channel DSMX Transmitter Only 4157122973
Lemon Rx DSMP (DSMX/DSM2 Compatible) 6-Channel Receiver with Diversity Antenna 4157122978

we (my son and I) cannot get the transmitter to calibrate the ESC properly, or the engine to work.
We turn on the transmitter and apply power to the ESC, and we heard a 1-2-3 beeping. Not the sounds like in Josh's video.
It does this regardless of whether thorttle is set for high or low.
Sometimes, after a pause, it will blip the motor briefly, and activate a servo.
once the motor came on after the transmitter was off. turning the transmitter on stopped the motor, but turning it back off started the motor again.
We can't seem to caibrate the ESC, and we can't seem to make the motor run.

Any suggestions?

 

[quorneng]

Have you bound the receiver to the transmitter successfully?
With 2.4 gHz the transmitter tunes itself exactly to the frequency built into the receiver. It requires a special procedure to do this (see the Tx manual) and the Lemon receiver has to have a bind plug in the bind socket. Once the binding process is complete the bind plug must be removed.
With power on and with a bind plug in, the receiver red LED will flash rapidly. Turn on the transmitter in bind mode and the receiver LED will flash slowly for a few seconds and then go on solid showing the bind has been successful. Disconnect the receiver and then switch off the transmitter and remove the bind plug. Switch the transmitter back on and then power up the receiver (always in that order every time). The ESC will give the normal 'arming' beeps but only if the throttle is at the absolute minimum and everything should work.

I have several of exactly that Lemon receiver and they work faultlessly on my DX6i.

 

[Merv]

I agree with quorneng, make sure the Rx is bound to the Tx. When the Rx is bound you will be able to control a servo, you move the stick and the servo responds.

Remove the prop until this is sorted out. You don’t want the prop to start unexpectedly.

 

[twistnineninesix]

Yes, we have bound successfully, and our servos function as expected. Issue seems to be specifically with the ESc, and not the receiver. Leaning toward a bad ESC (is there such a thing) given that the motor will run when the transmitter is off.
We do not get the beep for calibration, but we do seem to get a beep/beep/beep on power up, which i believe is the self test.
We've pulled the prop, wanting to retain our fingers.

 

[Merv]

.... but we do seem to get a beep/beep/beep on power up, .....

Try reversing the throttle channel.

 

[Ketchup]

Keep in mind that you will have a newer power pack than the one that Josh had in the build video, so the ESC is a little different and the beeps might not be the same, so don't expect it to be exact. Follow the other suggestions to troubleshoot the other issues.
Also, if the throttle goes up when the tx is turned off, you should set the failsafe and make sure it is done right, the process should be on the Lemon RX website and it's pretty quick to do.
Lastly, that's a 4s battery that you got. It will be much more powerful than you really need, and you have to check to see if the motor and ESC can even handle it. Normally for that plane a 2s or 3s would be fine.

 

[cbf123]

I've got that exact ESC and it's working fine on the tiny trainer. It's running "BLHeli" firmware, so the calibration is as follows:
1) Turn on the TX, raise throttle to max.
2) Plug in battery to ESC. You'll hear a set of rising beeps, then some constant tone beeps, then after about three seconds there will be three sets of rising beeps.
3) Lower throttle to minimum. Don't push hard, just move it gently. You'll hear a series of constant tone beeps, then after about three seconds there will be three sets of falling beeps.
4) Unplug the battery from the ESC.
5) Plug in the battery to the ESC, and you should be good to go.

Once you get it working, with a 4s battery you *will* need to downsize the prop a bit from the provided 6" ones to avoid damaging the motor or frying your ESC due to too much current. A 5x3 prop would work, though if you want more speed you could go with 5x4. Don't do a 5x5 or a 6" prop though.

You may also find it nose-heavy with a 4s battery. I had to move my receiver way back, and when I built a second one I moved the servos back as well.

 

[JasonK]

will the A-pack motor even work safely on 4s? the store page for it says 2s or 3s.

 

[twistnineninesix]

I've got that exact ESC and it's working fine on the tiny trainer. It's running "BLHeli" firmware, so the calibration is as follows:
1) Turn on the TX, raise throttle to max.
2) Plug in battery to ESC. You'll hear a set of rising beeps, then some constant tone beeps, then after about three seconds there will be three sets of rising beeps.
3) Lower throttle to minimum. Don't push hard, just move it gently. You'll hear a series of constant tone beeps, then after about three seconds there will be three sets of falling beeps.
4) Unplug the battery from the ESC.
5) Plug in the battery to the ESC, and you should be good to go.

Once you get it working, with a 4s battery you *will* need to downsize the prop a bit from the provided 6" ones to avoid damaging the motor or frying your ESC due to too much current. A 5x3 prop would work, though if you want more speed you could go with 5x4. Don't do a 5x5 or a 6" prop though.

You may also find it nose-heavy with a 4s battery. I had to move my receiver way back, and when I built a second one I moved the servos back as well.

We get the rising tones when we do this, but we nothing after that, even when we wait for 30 seconds. FliteTest support is supposed to call us and help with the issue. they've already said the 4S battery is okay, just to use less throttle on launches.
We're already purchasing a smaller battery to help with the situation.

 

[cbf123]

These motors don't really care about voltage, only current/power. The insulation on the windings can handle much higher voltage than we're talking about here. Using higher voltage will result in trying to spin the motor faster. With a prop mounted this results in higher current draw than with the lower-cell-count battery, so you need to reduce the prop diameter and/or pitch accordingly. (Diameter makes much more difference than pitch.)

It should work just fine with a 5x3 or 5x4 prop, but I would not run a 6" prop as you risk burning out the ESC. In the case of the tiny trainer a lot of the prop is actually blocked by the nose of the plane, so it's possible you might be okay, but I would want to test it with an inline power meter (like https://www.amazon.ca/Airplane-4-8V...acklight/dp/B07HCGGWNG/ref=asc_df_B07HCGGWNG/) to make sure rather than assume it's okay.

 

[JasonK]

These motors don't really care about voltage, only current/power. The insulation on the windings can handle much higher voltage than we're talking about here. Using higher voltage will result in trying to spin the motor faster. With a prop mounted this results in higher current draw than with the lower-cell-count battery, so you need to reduce the prop diameter and/or pitch accordingly. (Diameter makes much more difference than pitch.)

It should work just fine with a 5x3 or 5x4 prop, but I would not run a 6" prop as you risk burning out the ESC. In the case of the tiny trainer a lot of the prop is actually blocked by the nose of the plane, so it's possible you might be okay, but I would want to test it with an inline power meter (like https://www.amazon.ca/Airplane-4-8V...acklight/dp/B07HCGGWNG/ref=asc_df_B07HCGGWNG/) to make sure rather than assume it's okay.

as the voltage goes up, the current will also go up and power is voltage * current. So there is a point were it won't matter what prop you put on. I wasn't thinking about the insulation, just about the increase in power usage by going up in voltage.

 

[cbf123]

Sure, but with no prop the current draw of just the motor spinning is pretty low. The quadcopter folks run 4s and even 6s setups all the time, so it's no problem for the motors. You just have to pick a suitable prop to keep the overall current/power within limits.

Heck, some of the hotliners are running 16s setups!

 

[Bricks]

Sure, but with no prop the current draw of just the motor spinning is pretty low. The quadcopter folks run 4s and even 6s setups all the time, so it's no problem for the motors. You just have to pick a suitable prop to keep the overall current/power within limits.

Heck, some of the hotliners are running 16s setups!

When going to higher voltage the problem becomes more of the ESC not the motor, if the ESC is not rated for higher voltage it very well may let out the magic smoke, or not work at all.

 

[cbf123]

It's an issue both with voltage and current, because an increase in voltage can cause a much larger increase in current. The rotational speed goes up directly with increased voltage, but the power required to spin the propeller goes up with the *cube* of the rotational speed. That in turn can cause the motor, the ESC, or the battery to fail.

For example, I have a plane that can only fly on 2s batteries. If I were to go full-power on a 3s battery the ESC would be fine for voltage (it's rated for 4s), but it would die from too much current and the motor would overheat. To use it with 3s I'd need a smaller prop.

 

[Philotimo]

We get the rising tones when we do this, but we nothing after that, even when we wait for 30 seconds. FliteTest support is supposed to call us and help with the issue. they've already said the 4S battery is okay, just to use less throttle on launches.
We're already purchasing a smaller battery to help with the situation.

I have the same issue. How did they resolve it?

 

[quorneng]

The issue of keeping the amps within the specification of the ESC, motor or even the battery is to check the set up using a Watt meter. As you open the throttle (make sure the plane is properly restrained) you can determine in real time whether you are about to exceed one of the component's specification so you can stop before you actually do!
Once you exceed an ESC's specification it is likely to simply fail, either instantly or worse, after a random time period depending on the flight conditions at the time. Motors and batteries don't like running over spec but can tolerate it for short (20 second?) periods.
If you want to experiment with props and batteries a Watt meter will pay for itself very quickly.

 

[Matthewdupreez]

Lastly, that's a 4s battery that you got. It will be much more powerful than you really need, and you have to check to see if the motor and ESC can even handle it. Normally for that plane a 2s or 3s would be fine.

🤔🤔.... REALLY?? Do you remember that... Oh man what was it... A 4s ketchup crazy or something like that 🤔😂😂