Noob build FT270 with EMAX Mini Magnum 2 Questions regarding Emax in FT270

[johnfm3]

Hello everyone. New to the forum and the hobby of Quad Choppers but not RC's.

Ok, so I am building my first Quad chopper. And I have chosen to build the FT270 as that first quad chopper. For medical reasons, I am not very stable with a soldering iron and have chosen to go with a EMAX Mini Magnum 2 as a complete Flight Controller, VTx, RX, and ESC solution. I will have to get the FrSky XM receiver added to the EMAX Stack which I will have to work thru (probably pay local hobby shop). I have also bought the EMAX "Quad Pack" Power Combo with RS2205-S Motors, & 30A Bullet ESCs.

I know that the original design of the FT270 was to have a single stack FC installed. I have heard that some have raised the upper level plates up to fit the multi layer stacks such as the controller I have bought.

Here is the big question: Can I remove the lower stack of the EMAX which is the 4 in 1 35A ESC and utilize the 4 individual 30A esc's which came with the motor/esc combo package? And would that reduce the size of the EMAX stack enough to fit between the plates? I could put the individual esc's on the Arm's as found on many quad choppers.

Thanks,
John Moore

 

[FDS]

No, you can’t use separate ESC’s without having a lower board, there’s no solder pads on the FC for the ESC power leads, you would have to put a Power Distribution Board underneath the stack, which will take up the same space as a 4:1.
There’s several solutions, you can split the stack down so it’s two lower height ones, FC and ESC then put the ESC behind or you can order taller stand offs for the frame to raise the deck over what you have, there’s lots of lengths available.
The VTX really won’t be a problem to take off the top of the stack, I prefer not to have them on top of the flight controller anyway, it will be simple to move it, it has 3 wires to connect it to the FC, it’s not complicated.
Have you considered finding a local club or quad group? There may well be people there who can help you with your build, they may even be able to help with the soldering. That way you can get everything assembled cheaper and make new flying buddies.
A fully pre built quad like the iFlight Nazgul 5 or Diatone R349 can be yours ready to fly for less than the cost of the parts you have ordered, if you can’t solder (I have worked with dyspraxia sufferers who can’t solder in the past) then returning what you have and getting a ready built is another option.

 

[johnfm3]

Thanks for the suggestion of splitting the stack between the 2 lower layers. I will def look into that option. Hopefully I can leave the VTx and RX on the top.

Regarding a local club. Is there a registry which I can look at to find a club. In the RC Crawler crowd, the there is nothing local to my home town for quite a distance (as in 30 or so miles) as I live in the foot hills of the cascade mountains in Wa state. There is a small group of us who are purchasing these. For our first attempt wanted to keep building to a minimal. And for me, reducing fine soldering as compared to soldering 2 wires together.

At this time, I think I am going to stick to what I have as from what I have read it should be a pretty decent setup for how I plan to use it. As more of a chase quad with the larger chassis. I am betting I will be behind the pack most of the time...lol We also do have a lot of trees with plenty of spacing which when using this quad should be a pretty fun experience. As far as I can tell, the larger chassis should be a bit more forgiving when I get a little shaky on the control and not bust off in a direction I was not intending it to go (which was another thing I was looking for).

 

[FDS]

Any quad will be pretty sensitive to controls, frame size and weight adds inertia tho.
I would be looking at setting up your initial RC rates low, like 400 or so, with plenty of centre stick smoothing with the S rate. That will make it much better to fly. Joshua Bardwell has a couple of good video on setting the rates up in betaflight.
If your buddies are making the same quad why not build them together? Then you can get help soldering. With that stack there’s still the motor wires, RX and camera soldering to do.
Most quad receivers are tiny, the RXSR and XM+ are so small you can fit them in 100g micro set ups. You won’t have any trouble putting that in the frame. The new Spektrum race receiver is fairly small if you went with them.

 

[johnfm3]

thanks for the quick responses to my questions. As far as getting help with soldering, I am going to get some help with that. That being said, I would like some ownership in building as much myself as possible. And the Emax FC stack I am looking at does that for me.

The big thing going thru my mind was is there another method to work with it vs just adding larger spacers in-between the chassis decks. Your suggestion of splitting the lower 2 layers of the stack is a great option which I will look into.

Everything has already been ordered and will be delivered tomorrow. My first quad chopper which I never did get to fly due to a faulty FC was a Jumper 218 Pro from hobby king which worked with my Tactic TTX850 transmitter. Long story as too why it never flew. When I saw where the industry has gone with SBus Rx and my setup could not support that, I chose to take a bite in the check book and buy a new FrSky TX as it had a the XM+ Rx you spoke up.

it looks as if I bought the 2600Kv motors (EMAX RS 2205-s) which were to be a good match to the Flight Controller stack I bought which had a 35A ESC.

I will need to ask for assistance from others for suggestions on what this thing settings should be for slower characteristics. We'll see how that goes when I get there.

Only other thing for me to think about is BetaFlight vs CleanFlight. I am working from a Macbook Pro. And have both, but I believe Cleanflight is via chrome still and BetaFlight is a stand alone app.

 

[FDS]

Betaflight is the way to go if you have a Mac, no driver issues! There’s more tutorials on Betaflght. I have found 4.0 to work fine with stock tune on my 3 builds.
Cleanflight is also available direct, I had to use it fir an old F3 board.

 

[johnfm3]

As if I didn't have enough problems. My parts arrived today and I got a chance to see physical fitment. The fastening pattern of the Flight Stack I bought does not match up with the quad chassis. Its physically small enough to fit inside the expected fastening pattern drilled on the quad chassis.

What irritates me even more is that I called and spoke and asked these questions about physical fits. I knew and accepted that I would most likely be adding spacers between the 2 plates. But not re drilling the entire bottom base setup for a new Flight Controller fastening pattern,

John

 

[johnfm3]

For those who are interested, I found 1 person selling a flite controller adapter on Amazon. Bought it for under $7.

After buying that adapter, I gave thought that I own a X-Carve 1000mm cnc router which I could have cut my own adapter from 3mm carbon fiber. I may still consider doing that.

 

[FDS]

You have a 20x20 stack and 30x30 holes.
The downside of an adaptor is you will now gain stack height by using it.

 

[johnfm3]

Yeah, that is kind of a given. But you gave me a great idea, I am going to split the lower 2 levels of the stack and secure above and below the adapter most likely. Unless (Or Until) I build a 3mm flush mount one myself from CF.

 

[johnfm3]

If any one at Flite Test is paying attention to this thread, spec's such as what Flite controller mounting pattern would be a good thing to know on the web page where I bought it from. How much space is between the plates would be another good thing to know. Sounds like it may be 15mm. I wont know for sure till I start building and measure it.

The closest thing it says is this.... "The frame is designed for a single board stack such as the DYS F4 Flight controller, Armattan CL F4, FuriousFPV Kombini etc."

Which really doesn't mean much other than a multi layer stack will need the deck space increased to accomodate it to a noob just buying/building his/her first one. I knew that much when I bought it.

John

 

[FDS]

Most stacks were 30x30 when the frame was designed. FT is not a great source for quad info or parts IMO, they are best at planes. A lot of the quad info is out of date.
I would send the web store customer service a heads up about that frame description, FT have nothing to do with the store now, it’s all fulfilled and managed by Amain.
Race Day Quads or FPV.com are good for quad stuff.

 

[johnfm3]

Good to know. thanks

 

[johnfm3]

Ok, so I am pretty pissed at flite test. So, looking at Race Day Quads and GetFPV.com. There looks to be many different options for compact FC stacks. I like the idea of having matched hardware.

Example: EMAX FC stack with 4 in 1 35a ESC, and EMAX flite controller, matched with EMAX RS2205 2600KV motors.

I have a belief that a company is going to build their products to work best with their products.

I am going to return all this and try again (I just got off the phone with AMain Hobbies who supports Flite Test), what are some recommendations? What is with the XILO brand 6in race quad setup for 6x from GetFPV? It looks like a complete unit with a frSky XM+ receiver option. Can it run 4S and meet my wants for something a bit more forgiving for me?

Not overly impressed with GetFPV as I sat on ignore for 15 min and never did get my phone call answered. I really want to speak with a human being to come up with a solution to my wants/needs.

 

[FDS]

I would look at Race Day Quads if GetFPV are not helpful. You want to build the quad still? You want 5” size?
If you are building then good documentation and ease of connection are more important than having everything from one manufacturer.
6s quads are set up for 6s, you can’t run lower power as easily, the motor KV makes it inefficient and not feel nice. You use throttle control and the RC rate profiles for setting up the flight characteristics. I would not recommend a 6s screamer for a beginner. The packs cost more and you really don’t need the benefits of 6s as a regular pilot.
If you want a forgiving, inexpensive and easy to set up quad that runs on an XM+ receiver get the Emax Tiny Hawk Freestyle. It’s relatively slow, uses cheap 1s packs in series for 2s, is small, agile and all ready to fly for less than the cost of parts for a 5”. It’s a good flier on the factory tune, spend time flying it as opposed to getting your own build to work.

 

[johnfm3]

I wanted a 7 inch quad.

I am concerned of the weather conditions with a smaller lighter quad. In my discussions, the reason for a larger chassis was to have something where I could enjoy it outdoors. My house sits on multiple acres of land which has many Pine Trees along with my neighbor who has almost 5 acres of clearing making for some fun flying.

The concern is something the size of the tiny hawk (which may be great indoors) would not be usable for my intended use. And I do intend to start towards long range. I already take part in FPV RC Crawling with axial wraith and SCX10.

I have 3S and 4S batteries for my RC Crawlers. But they are large 5000+ size batteries. So no matter what, I am buying a dedicated battery for what ever I get.

If a 5 inch size can not be so nibble that it bolts every time there is a twitch on the stick, then I would consider a 5 in chassis with a 4S. The cheap one I started off with was a 250 size with a 3S. I never did get that to fly which started me down this road of building something. I just figured I would be upgrading before I broke it due to its size limitation.

 

[johnfm3]

https://www.getfpv.com/xilo-phreak-fpv-racing-quadcopter-rtf-7692.html

What about this one for a starter? Its a Bind n Fly, which I need to buy a radio for anyways. I plan on frSky Q7.

Do you have any other recommendations?

 

[man-bot]

Seems to me you are bouncing back and forth on how you wish to fly.

The FT270 is designed as a cruiser/ aerial photography ship.

5 inch quads are more for freestyle and racing.

Things you need to decide before doing anything....(keep in mind any quad can be set up to do most all things that can be done. Just some do certain things better)

1. Decide how you will fly "most" of the time.

2. Decide what size craft you want to do it with.

You can tame the most wild and insane quad down to fly like a tiny whoop.

Things like set up we can guide you thru depending on skill level and flight prefrences.

 

[FDS]

Tiny hawk freestyle is an outdoor quad. You wanted slow and forgiving, lighter with plenty of power but designed for beginners. The THF is that. It’s not a whoop. All Toothpicks are capable of doing anything a big quad can do but usually in a smaller area.
I have flown my sub 100g quads in 20mph winds. With XM+ receivers you can fly just as far as with a big quad for much less money and cheaper running costs.
A 7” is just a roomier 5” frame with longer arms. They can still fly fast.
Long range flying away from LOS is something to come to later when you have some flying time under your belt, it’s not recommended for less experienced fliers, even in a closed, private land set up like you have.
You need to get the idea that size is equated to speed/twitchy handling out of your head, all quads if set up to, can be VERY twitchy and all will feel FAST when you learn. A big quad will have more INERTIA, so when stuff goes wrong they keep going in the last direction of travel, sometimes fast and for considerable distances, even if you are trying to do something about it. Big and heavy is not big and slow.
The way around twitchy handling is to run low RC rates and learn throttle control. If you drive RC crawlers throttle control will be fairly easy to get, since whacking them out full throttle is not good driving.
The quad you linked is a stretch X, basically a racing frame. Sure you could down tune it but it’s also expensive, the props will be in your view all the time and the frame space is very tight, no room for mods or cameras. It’s like buying a race tuned Ducati to learn to ride a motorcycle. I wouldn’t recommend that for a beginner.

 

[man-bot]

Gotta love ya FDS. Yer always right there with advice. In practicality most of it is sensible. Some how ever is not always correct.

Instead of trying to tell pilots what can or cant be done guide them on how to do what they are attempting in the safest manor.

I fly 100+ mph and turn on a dime with rates under 450 dps. I took my drivers test way back in the 70's in a 1978 oldmobile regency98. That was a 19 foot long car that I had to parallel park on a side street in atlantic city.

Size and speed are nothing AND common in all quads. Its like anything else risky in the world. You have to respect it and you have to know how to go about things in a sensible manor.

It doesnt matter what a new pilot flys as long as its airworthy. Downsizing props, and batteries as well as properly detuning not just dropping rc rates will help accomplish this all once the basic requirements of what someone wants to do and on what gear is decided.