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Pumpkin drop event

Not in a hurry? Skip the hot glue

Brett_N

Well-known member
#1
I know the guys swear by it (I do too) but it does have some downfalls. Especially the fact that it re-melts in warmer temps.

I'm in the process of building up 3 more bloody wonder's for combat,instead of HG, I decided to try PVA - AKA TiteBond 2. Major components are cut out and sub-structures are glued. let wing spars dry overnight before I fold the wings and finish final assembly tonight.

Anyway - this stuff works really well. Some tack time estimates:

Flat to flat - tack within 30 seconds. (things like fuse doublers) solid within 3 minutes.

A-Folds - tack time was about a minute for these, with a firm setup in about 6 minutes. This was helpful for things like power pods, where you get them set, let them sit, then tape the open tops togethor and let it dry once you square it up.

B-Folds - seemed about the same as A folds.

For folds I put glue down the fold line, then along the corner line once setup (like you would do with HG)

Once I have a plane complete I'll get an AUW side by side with my HG based bloody. I can tell already though that this stuff is much much lighter and seems just as strong.

Oh - and it doesn't burn your fingers, and washes off with water.

Stay tuned...who knows it may end up being a total failure.
 

Merv

Well-known member
#2
I applaud your effort to build light. You can build light with hot glue, it's critical how much you use. Most use too much glue, a very small bead of glue is all that is necessary.

Too much of any kind of glue will be heavy. I've had good results with Gorilla Glue, Loctite Power Grab and FabricTac.
 

Brett_N

Well-known member
#3
Weight isn't an issue. These are combat planes so they won't last long anyway.

Hot glue tends to re-melt in the Phoenix heat. Makes for an even shorter lasting combat plane. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

But GG, Beacon FoamTac and Loctite (anything, I have about 25 different loctite glues...) are all fantastic for specific areas of building. But PVA is cheap, easy and strong for cheap planes. (I built 3 for the cost of 1 bottle of Gorilla Glue)
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#5
Weight isn't an issue. These are combat planes so they won't last long anyway.

Hot glue tends to re-melt in the Phoenix heat. Makes for an even shorter lasting combat plane. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

But GG, Beacon FoamTac and Loctite (anything, I have about 25 different loctite glues...) are all fantastic for specific areas of building. But PVA is cheap, easy and strong for cheap planes. (I built 3 for the cost of 1 bottle of Gorilla Glue)
I also use a number of different types of glue and results are very good to excellent. Weights can be kept low and strength very high.

PVA does work well but it does have a few issues and in certain applications it has significant advantages.

On large sheets of FB it can curl up the FB, (I call it cupping), and where the air is excluded it can take a very long time to dry, (weeks +).. One thing it does very well is to allow the FB to be made very rigid when used as a covering layer. I ""painted" the wings of a sheet wing biplane with the PVA and when dry the FB was so rigid that I crashed the plane 20+ times and the wings always survived even if ripped off of the fuselage and wing mounting points.

The PVA also paints very well and I use to almost exclusively to coat all raw or exposed FB edges where the glue soaks into the paper on top and bottom and binds them together with the PVA skin over the exposed foam. PVA covered FB edges almost never de-laminate!

I applaud your admission of using something other than CA or Hotmelt as it can bring out those who seem to be against experimentation from time to time.

If you do full contact combat try painting a ship in PVA once assembled and see if the reinforced FB makes your ship appear to be almost armour plated.

Keep up the experimentation and the exploration.

Have fun!
 

Brett_N

Well-known member
#6
I didn't think about skinning DTFB. I regularily use the watered down PVA + brown construction paper for skinning big foamies. Never thought about it on DTFB where it already has the paper!

Hmm... thinned PVA over DTFB then coated in HD packing tape.
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#8
hmm.... I wonder if I could tint thinned down PVA?
I do know that it can be mixed with, (used as a thickener/thinner), some brands of water based paints to give a better bond to timber and even make the paint more resistant to abrasion.

Perhaps a coating of PVA tinted with water based paint might have possibilities!:unsure:.

Have fun!
 

Brett_N

Well-known member
#9
I've got some RIT dye at home. I'll give it a try. The only problem is the "good" PVA like titebond is already tinted YELLOW - so...the color choices with tinting may be a bit limited.

Worth a try either way. Maybe I can find some high strength white PVA.....
 

DamoRC

Well-known member
Mentor
#12
This is great info and I am keen to try the Titebond II and compare to GG. @Hai-Lee - when you "paint" the plane in PVA, by how much do you thin it before using?
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#13
This is great info and I am keen to try the Titebond II and compare to GG. @Hai-Lee - when you "paint" the plane in PVA, by how much do you thin it before using?
Sorry for the delay in response but I was out flying and collecting repair/build orders!

I normally do not thin the PVA at all and when the board dries faster on one side the board may bend or cup. I keep a brush with some water at hand to apply a little water to the drier side to allow the sheet to dry perfectly straight. It takes a little practice and is only needed on large parts but it is well worth it.

Looks like I will be getting some more practice myself as I received orders for 3 FT style Viggens!

Have fun!
 

slipshift

Active member
#15
Thanks, Brett_N, I really want to try this out. Amazon sells this but I have to order 3 bottles minimum order. Lighter, stronger, and no more hot glue dripping in my lap.

Jim
 

Kendalf

Well-known member
#16
There are so many kinds of glues! I also wanted to use alternative glues rather than hot glue to try to save weight.
I believe Titebond II and the Titebond Quick and Thick are two different products. Here's the product pages for each of them:
Titebond II
Titebond Quick and Thick

I heard good things about Titebond II but some warned about the stronger smell as well as the longer time to set, so I've been trying Titebond Translucent Wood Glue. I previously used Bob Smith Foam-Cure for two Tiny Trainers which was decent, but it took quite awhile to set. Plus the Titebond is less than half the price of Foam-Cure. That Quick and Thick stuff looks interesting though, and from the description it appears to set even faster than the Translucent. From the Titebond product pages, the Quick and Thick stuff looks to be a lot thicker than the Translucent, which is already more viscous than the Titebond II (viscosity is 36,500 cps vs 8500 cps vs 4000 cps). Not sure if this will make it harder for the glue to run down into small cracks and crevices. I may pick up a bottle from my local Lowes to try out and compare.

The Titebond Translucent still requires an hour or so to set hard so I use books and such to provide firm pressure on the pieces while the glue dries (those coffee table books come in handy).
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And as @Hai-Lee mentioned in an earlier comment it does require exposure to air to fully cure. I had one wing where I glued the two halves together, then put the packing tape over the joint per the FT Build video, but that was a mistake as it's been over a week and the glue in the joint still hasn't hardened. I've now learned to join the wings, set the dihedral and use weight as needed to hold the angle, then let the glue set for a few hours or even overnight before putting the tape over the joint.
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DamoRC

Well-known member
Mentor
#17
Just an update.

Titebond II - Quick and Thick

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Titebond-Clear-Interior-Wood-Adhesive-Actual-Net-Contents-8-fl-oz/999992186

IS ABSOLUTELY THE WAY TO GO.

in un-scientific battle tests, it's proving to be much stronger and easier to work with than hot glue.

and no more burned finger tips.
So many glues, so little time!

Got a bottle of the titebond II to test against HG and GG. So far I have just looked at the lamination piece. In my hands, the GG is better for laminating FB than the Titan II albeit a fraction heavier. That being said, I may not have moved fast enough for the Titan II - it starts to set up pretty quickly (these were 3 x 20 inch double FB test layers). Really like the easy cleanup of the Titan compared to GG. Gonna get some Titan III which I understand sets slower which might suit my style better. Keen to test all three on some fuse test sections to check for weight and strength.
 

Brett_N

Well-known member
#18
The TB2 quick and thick doesn't have any smell.

Damo - when you are laminating, are you peeling the paper off and gluing foam to foam?

I have found one place where TB doesn't work (actually, NOTHING I've found works..) I tend to pre-tape my planes before final assembly...and if the wings are glued to the fuze, nothing seems to stick to the tape. Sp either scrape or cut it.
 

Michael763

Well-known member
#19
When I have pretaped my parts, I have used two methods at the glue joints of white gorilla glue. I either use a needle to pierce the glue joint area or carefully cut away the tape at the joint area. I also add some glue fillets. When I use the needle technique I make sure that I only pierce the tape and not ruin the integrity of the foam underneath. I use these techniques on both DTF and MPF. I also use blue masking tape to control/restrict the expansion of the gorilla glue.
 

Kendalf

Well-known member
#20
I had to search around the house to improvise a clamp to help hold the tail in place so the surfaces are perpendicular as the glue dries. Guess those old VHS tapes are still good for something! :p
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