• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.

NW ohio mentor help needed...

#1
so i'm about to give up and i was hoping someone local could help me out...

here's a brief story of where i am:

got a knuckles quad pack here on flite test, picked the included "power pack" from lazer toyz with emax motors and esc's... this seems to be the start of all my problems. unknown to me, the esc's don't play nice with the pixhawk i bought, and i spent a long time getting that sorted out. by the time i figured out the problem, i opted to just upgrade the whole thing to larger motors/esc's/props from RCmanchild. got that all figured out, quad flew fine, but we decided to upgrade it to a hex (tarot hex frame).

so the knuckles was set aside, and we started putting time and effort into the hex... we've got it all figured out... but after quite a few scary test hovers we are terrified of crashing it.

so back to the knuckles...

snagged a CC3D, hooked everything up like it should be, and one of the motors was acting strange. tried flying anyway... crashed. rebuilt the frame, ordered a new motor, ran through the setup again on the CC3d and now 2 motors are acting strange...

not just that... but when trying to calibrate the ESC's three of them beep in perfect unison, one of them is about 5 seconds behind.

tried doing calibration's one at a time... still goofy.

tried swapping ESC's and motors... still goofy.

so i've decided to do two things...

1. move the ESC's/motors/props onto some foam planes so i can get SOMETHING in the air (it's been over a year and still nothing).

2. buy a better set of motors/esc's/props to use for the kunckles frame to get some practice in before we start flying the hex.

so, here's the problem set of motors/esc's:

motor: http://www.banggood.com/Emax-MT2213-935KV-Brushless-Motor-For-RC-Multicopter-p-69288.html
ESC (25amp): http://www.banggood.com/Emax-Simonk...-40A-ESC-For-Quadcopter-QAV-250-p-918126.html

i'd like to toss these into some sort of plane and still use my 3300 MAH 3c battery we originally got with the knuckles combo. so if anyone has a suggestion on what size plane would be good for motors/props these size. bottom line is i need to get something in the air, and these motors are complete crap for multirotors because they only come in CW... you can't get them in CCW so half the props like to just fall off at random... perfect for crashing. figure the best use for these would be mounting them on a plane and not having to worry about them spinning the props loose.

i've got 5 motors in total, 2 of them might be broken though... not sure because of the insanely garbage ESC's and the impossibility to get them to play nice together.

beyond that...

how about a suggestion for a motor/esc/prop combo for a knuckles quad sized frame able to carry a gopro hero 3... something we can get used to flying and start using our headplay goggles.

last but not least... the hex:

it's nice, it's almost to nice...

pixhawk
2 5000mah 4c's
6x 750 kv motors
6x 30 amp esc's
X8R receiver
taranis plus
tarot 690 hex frame
tarot 2d gimbal

i've got a cheap starter FPV kit from hobbyking, 600TX/div RX + cheap mini cam and a 3 way switch. trying to hook all this stuff up and i'm just over my head a bit... so if someone is willing to help me figure all that out i'd be grateful. not quite sure how to wire the 2d gimbal to control it with the extra ch's on my taranis.

ideally i'd like to meet someone who knows what the heck they are doing and i can just show them what i have and where i'm stuck... but i know that's a bit much to ask. i wish flite test was open to the public where i could bring my stuff and pay someone who knows what they are doing to get us flying. we're close... like %90... it's that last %10 that's keeping us on the ground.

so anyway sorry for rambling a bit, i'm just kinda stuck and looking to see if anyone is willing to help me out. even just to look at everything and tell me to quit being such a chicken and put it in the air...

anyway hope someone reads this who can offer some help... i've got quite a mess on my hands. a pile of parts and half constructed projects and none of them are flying.

thanks in advance if anyone is willing to help me out.
 

makattack

Winter is coming
Moderator
Mentor
#2
Sorry to hear of your frustrations with setup. Glad to hear you are sticking to it and simplifying things. I think that's the key and you're on the right track. Are there any rc clubs near you? That's where I'd start for trying to find mentors. Maybe check in with a hobby shop to see if they know anyone?

In terms of using the gear you have on a fixed wing build, but not knowing your history and experience with fixed wing, I think that combo should work well with a storch or probably even the explorer. If you're looking for fpv, I would look into the explorer, or versa wing.

Hope you'll find success soon.
 
#3
Sorry to hear of your frustrations with setup. Glad to hear you are sticking to it and simplifying things. I think that's the key and you're on the right track. Are there any rc clubs near you? That's where I'd start for trying to find mentors. Maybe check in with a hobby shop to see if they know anyone?

In terms of using the gear you have on a fixed wing build, but not knowing your history and experience with fixed wing, I think that combo should work well with a storch or probably even the explorer. If you're looking for fpv, I would look into the explorer, or versa wing.

Hope you'll find success soon.
yeah i do feel like i'm halfway giving up by scaling things back... but i have to keep telling myself it's one step back to take 2 forward. i'm just terrified of crashing this $1500 hex we've spent a year of learning to build and get all the bugs worked out. haven't done more than fly it a few feet off the ground a few times just to make sure everything is working right. last attempt was with a single 3300mah 3c, it was very springy... one tick on the throttle sent it up fast, one click down sent it down fast. i know part of this is because we designed it to carry much more weight (designed to carry 2x 5000mah 4c's) and it was only carrying about 1/3 of that weight and pushing 3/4 of that much power...

i'm sure the new weight/power ratio will work out better, at least i hope so, but i know there's other steps i can take on the taranis to try to make things easier... so the next step was trying out some expo on the taranis to level that out...

i created a copy of the known-to-work setup, and i added a 3pos switch that adds in expo

down (starting position) = no expo
middle = %15
up = %25

having never added expo before, hopefully this isn't a stupid question, but does %15 + %25 sound ok to try to deaden the stick out a bit or is that going to be way to much?

...

anyway as far as local clubs go, i've struck out so far. i know a few guys in the area that can help me but they are all into planes and heli's. been good to talk to about the taranis but not much else...

clubs... not so much... the only local one has been completely unresponsive to phonecalls, voicemails, e-mails... i think the word "multi-rotor" scared them off. from what i've been told about the local club, and i could be %100 wrong, is they are all old school guys who are into planes and not much else...

not that there's anything wrong with that, to each his own, but they don't seem to be welcoming to someone on my end of the hobby.

maybe i'll keep trying, who knows.

i absolutely want to use the FPV gear i have, would like to use the planes as a testing platform for that gear once i get used to flying. lots of local fields to play around in, so sky's the limit as far as that goes. but i would certainly hate to see a few hundred worth of motors/esc's/props go to waste because i sorta got ripped off. finding a plane style i can use this gear with would be great, gotta be the cheapest way i can think of to get myself in the air and get some testing in on the tarranis and my FPV gear (dying to see how well that headplay works/looks).

i was thinking of buying a hobbyking skymule eventually, because it's strong enough to fly all sorts of gear (go pro and board cams, switcher, TX), which makes me think the either the bronco or the guinea pig for the two motors and ability to haul some weight (FPV stuff)

so i guess a good question would be will either of those planes/frames be alright to fly with 2 of the motor/prop/esc combo and that 3300mah 3c i posted links to above?

EDIT: just to clarify, i found a better link to the motors showing the props that came with it...

these are the motors/props: http://www.banggood.com/Emax-MT2213-935KV-Brushless-Motor-With-1045-Propellers-p-916675.html

and these are the ESC's (25 amp version): http://www.banggood.com/Emax-Simonk...-40A-ESC-For-Quadcopter-QAV-250-p-918126.html

so will 2 of those combos with a 3300mah 3c be good for the bronco or guinea?
 
Last edited:

makattack

Winter is coming
Moderator
Mentor
#4
I should think those motors/props/esc's are plenty good for a Guinea or Bronco, but having not built either yet, I can't say for sure. So, my question goes to: How much experience do you have with fixed wing flight?

I think that twin engine fixed wing can be a bit trickier than most people realize. I built a FT Cruiser as my third FT build, and I felt like it was a big step in complexity. Not only in the build, but also in setting it up for flight and getting it trimmed out properly. Because you will have two ESC's/motors, I find that sometimes when the battery gets low, you end up with a slight difference in power between them and that can make for a difficult flight. To me, that makes a twin engine plane an advanced flyer. They also just take much more time to build and setup, and your flight time won't be all that great.

You really don't need to haul that much weight for FPV... I have a FT Versa wing that weighs in at about 1Kg with a 4000mAh 3S battery with the FPV gear and a APM flight controller. Flight times easily in the 20-30 minutes range with that battery at mid throttle or lower.
 

Noob

Senior Member
#5
Where exactly in NW Ohio are you located? I am in SE Michigan just over the Ohio border. I know my club definitely has some members that come up from Ohio. We have members that are into multi rotors. I myself have put together the Tarot Hex.
 
#6
I should think those motors/props/esc's are plenty good for a Guinea or Bronco, but having not built either yet, I can't say for sure. So, my question goes to: How much experience do you have with fixed wing flight?
sadly zero... outside of lots of time playing ace combat on play station :D

but over the past year-ish i've been diving head first into all things RC... built a few cars, done a lot of building, tearing down, rebuilding of the various multi-rotors i've been toying around with. done a lot of reading and watching videos on youtube... so i'm armed with about as much knowledge as i can want... just very little multirotor experience and zero fixed wing.

the point to rebuilding that knuckles is to get used to flying a multirotor that doesn't cost almost 2 grand. no sense learning in a brand new caddy.

but the fixed wing situation is basically this: i've got 5 motors, and lots of props... so i might as well put them to use. i could build a single engine, and then have 4 spares... or a dual engine and have 1.5 sets of spares...

seemed to make sense but i'd hate to get in over my head again.

plan was to build a foam plane and if i crash $40 worth of foam... oh well... throw it in the gutter, go buy another. but if i can get the hang of it i'll have a cheap platform for testing the FPV setup, and for getting used to/tweaking the taranis.

plus the bronco just looks cool :applause:

I think that twin engine fixed wing can be a bit trickier than most people realize. I built a FT Cruiser as my third FT build, and I felt like it was a big step in complexity. Not only in the build, but also in setting it up for flight and getting it trimmed out properly. Because you will have two ESC's/motors, I find that sometimes when the battery gets low, you end up with a slight difference in power between them and that can make for a difficult flight. To me, that makes a twin engine plane an advanced flyer. They also just take much more time to build and setup, and your flight time won't be all that great.
thanks for the words of caution, maybe i'll build a single engine flying wing style first... lots of options.

You really don't need to haul that much weight for FPV... I have a FT Versa wing that weighs in at about 1Kg with a 4000mAh 3S battery with the FPV gear and a APM flight controller. Flight times easily in the 20-30 minutes range with that battery at mid throttle or lower.
good to know. i'd probably just be flying with the receiver for now, no FC just to keep things simple. i do have that CC3D but as of right now it's got it's home in the knuckles. can't wait to get that FPV gear in the sky so i can fire up the headplays.

oh, and thank you for all the help so far, nice to have someone to bounce ideas off of.

Where exactly in NW Ohio are you located? I am in SE Michigan just over the Ohio border. I know my club definitely has some members that come up from Ohio. We have members that are into multi rotors. I myself have put together the Tarot Hex.
west toledo-ish, about 5 minutes from michigan. what club are you talking about? i'd love to get involved. i just need someone who knows what they are talking about with this stuff, it's frustrating to build a quad, everything checks out, but i can't get the esc's to sync or the motors to start spinning at the same input... to be grounded by either bad equipment, or bad technique with no way to know the difference... it's just frustrating.

thanks for reaching out, looking forward to contacting a guild with multirotor guys... i'll snap a few pics of the hex and post it here so you guys can see what i'm dealing with... probably this weekend.
 

makattack

Winter is coming
Moderator
Mentor
#9
Glad to hear noob is inviting you to check out his RC club and it's near enough. I can't emphasize how much more successful you'll be in fixed or multirotor (or heli) flying if you go to a club and just ask someone to help you out with getting more experience.

I was self taught, but wish I had found my club when I started. I would have progressed so much quicker and saved myself some grief.

With no actual flight time with fixed wing, I can't emphasize enough that your first flight should be buddy boxed. Launching is easy, but there's a saying about how launching is optional and landing is mandatory.

If you end up not going to the club, or not finding an instructor pilot whose schedule meshes with yours, hook that Taranis up to a flight simulator and get plenty of stick time from "tower" or RC pilot view and from inside the cockpit (FPV). I recommend FlightGear for a free high resolution full scale simulator that works well as a RC sim in a pinch.

Works on Windows/OSX/Linux so if you're on this forum, you most likely have a computer that'll run it.

I would definitely recommend a FT Explorer for your first plane, maybe with a simple 3 ch setup, but if you get enough simulator time, you can probably start with 4ch. Those 10" props might be too big for that plane though, so maybe go with a FT Storch. It's a high wing trainer with ailerons.

I'd like to add that while RC clubs may seem intimidating, and sometimes email inquiries go unanswered, I really think you can't pass judgement until you visit them. Until I had joined my RC club, by first visiting them at an open house fly-in, I had emailed them and gotten a curt, short response with just a URL link to their membership page on the website. Not very inviting right? Well, it's just they don't really do things over email! I was at dinner with a friend at his home over the weekend and he had over his multigp race group. We were chatting, and they mentioned they had emailed my rc club and didn't get a response. Well, it's all volunteer based and it just happens our membership person doesn't really check email regularly. I told them to join come out to the field or a monthly meeting and introduce themselves. That's really our preferred way for people to check us out.

When I pulled into the fields parking lot on that open house day, I saw a FT Flyer being launched and myriad foamies, balsa/composite gliders with > 1M wing spans, electric 3D helis up to 700 sized, RTF's, a few rubber motored free flight tissue builds all mixed in with multirotors with DJI, Lumineer, and Blade labels. I think you'd be surprised at how diverse some of the clubs are these days, and how welcoming they are. People can be naturally nervous. I was asked politely how experienced I was with flying only because there were so many different airframes out there ranging in cost from < $100 to thousands. I personally opted not to fly in that environment that day, but joined on the spot!

Our main field is a shared space public park, but we also share a field about 30 minutes away with another RC Club (MWRC) on a locked/gated access road to State land that we lease and maintain cooperatively. This field is mostly for nitro/gas/larger models and I was certainly intimidated the first day I visited and saw models like this: https://goo.gl/photos/JBBn47LsYZ1tHEfs9

Of course, the members were careful to see if I knew what I was doing, but was welcoming and friendly even when I pulled out my beat up strange looking scratch built foamie FT Versa Wing drone (APM)!

There's a lot going on in this pic, but this was our past July 4th Open House where I came for the first time as a member -- it was my anniversary day too!

https://goo.gl/photos/A5mo46qHfCAfEvsH8

You'll see a FlightSim station for kids/new pilots under the tent, various electric motors gliders from UMX to 1M size. An electric winch for tow launched gliders. There's also at least one multi rotor sitting next to a radian in that photo. Behind me, when I took that photo, was another club member racing his 250 quad around FPV with goggles. I had my 7" groundstation monitor setup to show people what it looked like.

From the same day, I love this photo:
https://goo.gl/photos/MXhxPxFStoVNKmD99

It's one of our instructor pilots, Brian, buddy boxing with the young man to his left a newly scratch built BluBaby that the young man built with his grandfather at one of the clubs "Learn to scratch build and fly" lesson series held at a hobby store (Hobbyland in Stowe, MA) and instructed by Brian (with various volunteer club members as assistants -- including me). Oh, in that photo, his blubaby is the foamie near his head, in the distance. That 2M glider with the polyhedral wing soaring nearby gives you an idea of how random it can seem at our field with all sorts of different planes flying.

So, give us old fogies in our crusty rc clubs a chance, you might be surprised!
 
Last edited:

Noob

Senior Member
#10
wow, very nice, looks like you guys are having lots of fun... thanks for the info.
Send me a PM if you want some more information. We are doing indoor flying right now in a elementary school gym. It is open to the public, you do not need to be part of the club and it is free, on Sundays from Noon - 4:00 pm.
 
#11
Glad to hear noob is inviting you to check out his RC club and it's near enough. I can't emphasize how much more successful you'll be in fixed or multirotor (or heli) flying if you go to a club and just ask someone to help you out with getting more experience.

I was self taught, but wish I had found my club when I started. I would have progressed so much quicker and saved myself some grief.

With no actual flight time with fixed wing, I can't emphasize enough that your first flight should be buddy boxed. Launching is easy, but there's a saying about how launching is optional and landing is mandatory.
i have been wanting to get involved with a club for a while now, but the non responses to every single e-mail and voice mail have been rather off putting. i'm willing to chalk it up to miscommunication, but it was kinda crazy to not hear a peep out of them. even tried getting ahold of a local vendor/sponsor of the hobby who makes landing gear... told him how excited i was to get into the hobby, how i'd like to learn more about it and get involved...

nothing...

oh well, i'm sure he was just busy.

anyway as far as first flights go the plan was to do a lot of wide open low pass slow flying and keep it as simple as possible until i got the hang of things. there's quite a few areas nearby (public soccer baseball fields) that are virtually abandoned during the winter, was planning to get some flying in there as they are out in the middle of nowhere and the onlyt hing that would/could be in danger is my car and a few random porta-potties.

:eek:

once i knew things worked right i'd fly it a little higher/further, then add the FVP board cam and TX, then maybe even the gopro once i trusted everything.

but it would all be baby steps.

If you end up not going to the club, or not finding an instructor pilot whose schedule meshes with yours, hook that Taranis up to a flight simulator and get plenty of stick time from "tower" or RC pilot view and from inside the cockpit (FPV). I recommend FlightGear for a free high resolution full scale simulator that works well as a RC sim in a pinch.

Works on Windows/OSX/Linux so if you're on this forum, you most likely have a computer that'll run it.
thanks for the heads up on the sim, i'll check that out. sounds like a good way to get some practice in when the weather is working against me.

I would definitely recommend a FT Explorer for your first plane, maybe with a simple 3 ch setup, but if you get enough simulator time, you can probably start with 4ch. Those 10" props might be too big for that plane though, so maybe go with a FT Storch. It's a high wing trainer with ailerons.
very cool, i'll check into both of those options... thanks again for all the help.

I'd like to add that while RC clubs may seem intimidating, and sometimes email inquiries go unanswered, I really think you can't pass judgement until you visit them. Until I had joined my RC club, by first visiting them at an open house fly-in, I had emailed them and gotten a curt, short response with just a URL link to their membership page on the website. Not very inviting right? Well, it's just they don't really do things over email! I was at dinner with a friend at his home over the weekend and he had over his multigp race group. We were chatting, and they mentioned they had emailed my rc club and didn't get a response. Well, it's all volunteer based and it just happens our membership person doesn't really check email regularly. I told them to join come out to the field or a monthly meeting and introduce themselves. That's really our preferred way for people to check us out.

When I pulled into the fields parking lot on that open house day, I saw a FT Flyer being launched and myriad foamies, balsa/composite gliders with > 1M wing spans, electric 3D helis up to 700 sized, RTF's, a few rubber motored free flight tissue builds all mixed in with multirotors with DJI, Lumineer, and Blade labels. I think you'd be surprised at how diverse some of the clubs are these days, and how welcoming they are. People can be naturally nervous. I was asked politely how experienced I was with flying only because there were so many different airframes out there ranging in cost from < $100 to thousands. I personally opted not to fly in that environment that day, but joined on the spot!

Our main field is a shared space public park, but we also share a field about 30 minutes away with another RC Club (MWRC) on a locked/gated access road to State land that we lease and maintain cooperatively. This field is mostly for nitro/gas/larger models and I was certainly intimidated the first day I visited and saw models like this: https://goo.gl/photos/JBBn47LsYZ1tHEfs9

Of course, the members were careful to see if I knew what I was doing, but was welcoming and friendly even when I pulled out my beat up strange looking scratch built foamie FT Versa Wing drone (APM)!

There's a lot going on in this pic, but this was our past July 4th Open House where I came for the first time as a member -- it was my anniversary day too!

https://goo.gl/photos/A5mo46qHfCAfEvsH8

You'll see a FlightSim station for kids/new pilots under the tent, various electric motors gliders from UMX to 1M size. An electric winch for tow launched gliders. There's also at least one multi rotor sitting next to a radian in that photo. Behind me, when I took that photo, was another club member racing his 250 quad around FPV with goggles. I had my 7" groundstation monitor setup to show people what it looked like.

From the same day, I love this photo:
https://goo.gl/photos/MXhxPxFStoVNKmD99

It's one of our instructor pilots, Brian, buddy boxing with the young man to his left a newly scratch built BluBaby that the young man built with his grandfather at one of the clubs "Learn to scratch build and fly" lesson series held at a hobby store (Hobbyland in Stowe, MA) and instructed by Brian (with various volunteer club members as assistants -- including me). Oh, in that photo, his blubaby is the foamie near his head, in the distance. That 2M glider with the polyhedral wing soaring nearby gives you an idea of how random it can seem at our field with all sorts of different planes flying.

So, give us old fogies in our crusty rc clubs a chance, you might be surprised!
wow, thanks for that story of personal experience, makes me even more interested in getting into a cool club like that. for right now, i'm all-in with the multi-rotors, but i'm already seeing myself leaning heavy twords FPV fixed wings for that long flying time free flying like a bird feeling. it's the reason i got into this hobby to begin with... but i thought i'd need to go with a multirotor to haul all the gear. over the past year i've learned that just about anything is possible, and whatever i might want to do has already been done a hundred times over... so many people to learn from.

the mistake i seem to have made early on is buying the most complicated/high end gear i could get at a good price. the taranis is a very capable radio... it's also quite a mess for someone who's never had any RC exp before... it's like learning a whole new language... but i figured it out.

same with the pixhawk... and now the 2d gimbal... and the CC3D...

there's a never ending supply of things to learn, it can be quite overwhelming... so i need to simplify things and start applying all this hoarded info so i can make practical sense/use of it all in the real world.

hopefully a club can help me do that.

Send me a PM if you want some more information. We are doing indoor flying right now in a elementary school gym. It is open to the public, you do not need to be part of the club and it is free, on Sundays from Noon - 4:00 pm.
PM sent as soon as i type this out. i would love to swing up there and check it out. if you'll be there i can bring my hex... would be nice for someone who's built one before to let me know how i did...

thanks again.
 
#12
re: mentor help needed

I just came across your thread and was wondering if you got things worked out. Did you find someone to help? Did you find a club? I am in Sylvania Oh. and I belong to 2 area clubs. I'm into building multirotors as well as planes. If you still need some help, I would like to try. I know it's been a while since the last post, but I'm somewhat familiar with what you went through trying to find help.

Mike