One of those days....

[Burly]

Also I wonder how well some of these boards are designed in the first place.
Are these Kiss Boards open source designs?
If so, I'd like to see the layouts.

I've designed some PCBs..but they were strictly digital (AtMega chips).

When you get into these Analog or high switching current boards, you really have to know your stuff.
You get into split ground planes and separate voltage planes...isolation methods...etc.
Otherwise, things don't work...or are flakey at best....

 

[jhitesma]

Sadly the KISS boards are closed hardware and software (the only closed source on my builds)

I'd love to go all open on my builds...but the KISS ESC's just outperform anything I've tried by a rather large margin. My motors run cooler, quieter and smoother with them than BL or SimonK.

Well...they did until today

I'm still not convinced it's an ESC issue though. Just got the log of the last flight off my Brain board...but realized I don't have any log parsing tools setup right now and don't have time to get any setup tonight. So that will have to wait a bit longer Unless I can catch someone on the Tau IRC channel who's got them setup and has a few minutes (The onboard logs are different than the GCS logs and I haven't had much luck parsing the onboard logs yet...though one of the devs has parsed my logs successfully so it's something in my parsing setup not my logs causing the issue.)

 

[Burly]

I just watched the Bruce Simpson YouTube video concerning LC Meters.
Looks like a great investment to me...especially for guys flying quads.

 

[jhitesma]

I just watched the Bruce Simpson YouTube video concerning LC Meters.
Looks like a great investment to me...especially for guys flying quads.

Certainly helpful, though in the almost 3 years I've been flying quads this is the first time I've been in a situation where I wished I had one to check my motor windings with. So far any motors I've damaged it's been very obvious

And as with most Bruce vids he doesn't quite give enough info to really fully cover the topic as evidenced by this thread here: http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?20346-LC-Meter-to-check-motors&goto=newpost

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate what Bruce does. Just wish he's spend less time ranting and more time completing videos he starts and following up on things he leaves hanging.

I've been meaning to buy one for about 9 years now to check my hand wound inductors on some homemade HF radios I built but have never quite finished tuning in. And with the prices on them as low as they are now I figure it's about time

 

[Cyberdactyl]

Sadly the KISS boards are closed hardware and software (the only closed source on my builds)

I'd love to go all open on my builds...but the KISS ESC's just outperform anything I've tried by a rather large margin. My motors run cooler, quieter and smoother with them than BL or SimonK.

Well...they did until today

I'm still not convinced it's an ESC issue though. Just got the log of the last flight off my Brain board...but realized I don't have any log parsing tools setup right now and don't have time to get any setup tonight. So that will have to wait a bit longer Unless I can catch someone on the Tau IRC channel who's got them setup and has a few minutes (The onboard logs are different than the GCS logs and I haven't had much luck parsing the onboard logs yet...though one of the devs has parsed my logs successfully so it's something in my parsing setup not my logs causing the issue.)

Not being open is one of the minor bullet points in the "don't purchase" category for me. Just as with the high-end frame issue discussed above. For the vast majority of flyers, the positive bullet points for KISS ESCs, light weight and high performance, for the average Joe, come no where near the numerous negative bullet points, such as temperamental installation issues, the extreme price and, as you've pointed out, odd QA issues.

I see many flyers buying high-end components, frame, motors, ESCs, batteries, FCBs, and have spent most of their time (going from posted videos) tooling around a park, their backyard a backwoods trail. My advocacy in the hobby has gravitated or evolved to, 'There's absolutely no need to spend over $250 for an FPV quad to have a wonderful experience.' Sure, if someone has aspirations of racing or attempting to match or break an established limit or record, or has the luxury of a no-limit budget, then by all means go for it with the wallet plastic.

But I also realize I spend a lot of my MR time in DYI and scratchbuilt threads, and am constantly looking for an undiscovered or underutilized aspect that can improve a MR inexpensively, so I probably have a biased viewpoint.

 

[Burly]

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate what Bruce does. Just wish he's spend less time ranting and more time completing videos he starts and following up on things he leaves hanging.

Amen to that!!!

The worst videos are when he's crying about being wronged in one way or another.

"They gave me my wings back - and then the took them away again!......BOO HOO!!!"

I wonder how his "sense and avoid" project is going...

 

[Cyberdactyl]

My biggest beef with Bruce is he is NOTORIOUS for saying he will do a "part two", or promising to do a review of such and such, but then the months go by with nothing. Here's is a prime example with the Foxtech V3.

 

[jhitesma]

Not being open is one of the minor bullet points in the "don't purchase" category for me. Just as with the high-end frame issue discussed above. For the vast majority of flyers, the positive bullet points for KISS ESCs, light weight and high performance, for the average Joe, come no where near the numerous negative bullet points, such as temperamental installation issues, the extreme price and, as you've pointed out, odd QA issues.

I generally agree, but on the KISS I still say they're worth it. They aren't nearly as tempermental as people make it sound (that doesn't mean some people haven't had issues, but many more haven't.) the price is a little steep but not as out of line as the price on any number of other components. And the QA issues they've done an outstanding job of addressing and are now testing them before sending them out.

I really don't think the issue I'm having is an ESC issue. Remember on the 230 where I thought it was an ESC issue swapping the motors the problem followed the motor - so it was a motor issue not an ESC issue.

On the hex I can't swap motors as easily since there are two different sized arms. But I'm still suspecting the root problem is I may have damaged a motor when I got mud it in at FF. Maybe some of that mud scratched a winding. It could be I was looking at the wrong motor yesterday - on the hex it's not as obvious which arm drops first when it falls compared to a quad. I'm going to do some more tests today to try and nail this down...but I'm suspecting more and more that I may have damaged a motor.

Last flight at flite fest the weather was almost identical to here yesterday and I was pushing it pretty hard:

Up until I had to slow down to talk and then lost orientation when I relaunched at least

But yesterday just hovering around for a minute or less I was getting a motor and ESC WAY hotter than they were after that spirited flying at FF. And the motor that's running hot did have mud in it after that soybean landing.

So I'm really not in any rush to toss the KISS under the bus just yet.

And it's not just how they fly that I love about them. I absolutely love how quiet my motors are with them, first time I spooled up motors with KISS I had to actually touch one to make sure it was really moving because I had no idea brushless motors could be that silent. And the temps on my motors dropped noticeably as well which here in the desert is always a plus. For me those two things alone are worth the extra cost - and the other negatives I think are way overplayed and really are just a few loud complainers making things sound worse than they are.

 

[PHugger]

I see many flyers buying high-end components, frame, motors, ESCs, batteries, FCBs, and have spent most of their time (going from posted videos) tooling around a park, their backyard a backwoods trail. My advocacy in the hobby has gravitated or evolved to, 'There's absolutely no need to spend over $250 for an FPV quad to have a wonderful experience.' Sure, if someone has aspirations of racing or attempting to match or break an established limit or record, or has the luxury of a no-limit budget, then my all means go for it with the wallet plastic.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Some people (myself included) like to fly nice multirotors. I build to the best of my abilities and budget. If I can make something better/nicer, why not? I don't use 'wallet plastic' to fund my hobby. Everyone is different. The point is to enjoy what you are doing and not worry about what someone else is doing.

I think it would be silly to say that no one should ever buy a nice, sporty car unless they intend to become a race car driver. Saying you can't own a pickup truck unless you haul freight for a living would be equally silly.

I agree that telling people they need spend a lot to enjoy this hobby is wrong. Some people watch someone like FinalGlide fly and think it's easy. I'll just buy a Blackout or a Vortex or a WarpQuad and I'll be all set. Don't worry, their next lesson in humility is only seconds away.... By all means encourage them to build a cheap beater and work their way up slowly. Is carbon fiber better? Yes, but it won't stop you from crashing 30 seconds into your first flight.

I believe that men have a genetic disposition to define themselves by their tools. We gain our self worth from the tools we use - phones, cameras, cars, computers, etc. If that is all there is to my self worth - what a pity. I always get into trouble when I try to apply my personal convictions onto others. There will always be someone richer, smarter, or better looking. Contentment is a worthwhile goal.

Some people love to build things as cheaply as possible. They derive satisfaction from scratch building instead of buying store bought, making do with some ingenuity instead of purchasing a solution. Others could care less about building and just want to fly. Some just want to fly a really nice sporty machine. It's all good. Have fun.



Best regards,
PCH

 

[jhitesma]

My biggest beef with Bruce is he is NOTORIOUS for saying he will do a "part two", or promising to do a review of such and such, but then the months go by with nothing. Here's is a prime example with the Foxtech V3.

Or unboxing something even though he doesn't do unboxings and then never actually doing the review

Anyone remember his DIY Cruise missile project? http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/

Same kind of thing that's going on with his wings. He keeps claiming prosecution but what it comes down to is he doesn't like to follow the rules and then claims prosecution when he gets gets caught. He didn't get shut down for building a DIY cruise missile, he got shut down for cheating on his taxes.

I fully support shaking trees and upsetting the status quo. But if you're going to do it you have to expect some blow back and be ready to accept it. And you had darn well better make sure you don't have any skeletons in the closet that can come back to bite you. If you do then man up and admit it instead of trying to claim persecution.

I pretty much skip his rants and weekly updates because of my low BS tolerance. But his how to and review videos are usually worth watching so I still stick around for them.

I used to follow his pulse jet development back before I even got into aeromodeling: http://aardvark.co.nz/pjet/

And it was the same story back then, lots of big promises with few fulfilled and then promising lines of development just abandoned after months of hype.

The pattern isn't hard to detect

 

[PHugger]

My biggest beef with Bruce is he is NOTORIOUS for saying he will do a "part two", or promising to do a review of such and such, but then the months go by with nothing. Here's is a prime example with the Foxtech V3.

Bruce promised me he would do a 2nd video on crimping RQ316. Never happened.
I did enjoy his 1st video on soldering RG402. I've done quite a bit of RG58 and RG61 crimping so I'm not sure how much I'll be missing. You should see my crimpers - sorry that was my tool gene talking.



Best regards,
PCH

 

[Burly]

Anyone remember his DIY Cruise missile project? http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/

Good Lord...you've got to be kidding me !!!!!!
I need to get the Reynolds Wrap, and make myself a tinfoil hat.

Based on this...it actually looks like Bruce has mellowed since 2008.

 

[Cyberdactyl]

Bruce has always believed the state is out to allegedly get him.

Here is a working video of the "Cruise Missile" story.

Part1

Part 2

 

[cranialrectosis]

I am still tempted to buy KISS ESCs. The difference in performance is the same as the difference between old multistars and SimonK when SimonK was new. When I could get them working, they were a whole different ball game.

During Chad's interview he stated he was running bullet proof 18A KISS ESCs. The chat to the right of the livestream went nuts. We had already had two ESC fires and a lipo fire and the expectation was that the ESCs being flown were KISS. KISS were expected both because of their reputation as being used by the top guys but also for their reputation for fires.

With KISS it is extreme. They are extremely great or extremely bad. If they work for you, use them.

Yes, you can have a lot of fun with $4 multistars from 2011, but most people won't outgrow KISS in their lifetimes and the benefits are there for the novice as well as the pro and as soon as you install them.



Frickin' awesome flying, Jason. That had to draw some gawkers at FliteFest.

 

[Ocean]

I am still tempted to buy KISS ESCs. The difference in performance is the same as the difference between old multistars and SimonK when SimonK was new. When I could get them working, they were a whole different ball game.

During Chad's interview he stated he was running bullet proof 18A KISS ESCs. The chat to the right of the livestream went nuts. We had already had two ESC fires and a lipo fire and the expectation was that the ESCs being flown were KISS. KISS were expected both because of their reputation as being used by the top guys but also for their reputation for fires.

With KISS it is extreme. They are extremely great or extremely bad. If they work for you, use them.

Yes, you can have a lot of fun with $4 multistars from 2011, but most people won't outgrow KISS in their lifetimes and the benefits are there for the novice as well as the pro and as soon as you install them.



Frickin' awesome flying, Jason. That had to draw some gawkers at FliteFest.

Boris B and Metal Danny, who I consider some of the top pilots, have been running BLHeli for a while now.

I think the gap between BlHeli and Kiss is starting to narrow. Especially with the latest release of BLHeli 14 and refresh rates up to 4KHz I believe. The new RG20s look compelling.

As Boris B puts it in this post
(brilliant thread by joshuabardwell btw) Kiss goes for the least delay, but is more prone to little variations in signal, whereas BLHeli filters the input more.

 

[C0d3M0nk3y]

I am still tempted to buy KISS ESCs.

How tempted are you?

 

[jhitesma]

Frickin' awesome flying, Jason. That had to draw some gawkers at FliteFest.

Thanks, that's why I slowed down and then came back nose out...I can't fly like that and talk at the same time and was having to start concentrating on answering questions The quick crash was because I tried to do both at the same time

I run BL on the BS20's on my knuckle - and have a blast with them. For flat out flying performance BL is great and I have zero complaints about it. oneshot doesn't make as big of a difference on a big 380mm frame with 1400kv 2212's spinning 8" props. But the way I throw that thing through the air proves they aren't lacking for performance. I can fly it almost as aggressively and acrobatically as I can my 230. Crashes just tend to break something more often

That said the motors I've run on KISS and BL still make more noise and run hotter than they do on KISS.

I haven't tried 14 yet, and I haven't tried BL on any good mini ESC's lately (last summer before it had oneshot I used it on my BS12's but didn't have much luck with it.) When I get the knuckle back together I'll probably upgrade the ESC's to BL14 just for kicks. Though I really don't have any complaints about how 13 performs on there.

I'm still debating whether to order some KISS for the emax 250 or try some SN20's or similar with BL on it. The emax simon series on there now are the big limiting factor on that build and I'm getting serious about wanting to replace them.

 

[cranialrectosis]

How tempted are you?

Absolutely tempted, but after 8 of them flamed out on my desk I swore...

 

[cranialrectosis]

Boris B and Metal Danny, who I consider some of the top pilots, have been running BLHeli for a while now.

I think the gap between BlHeli and Kiss is starting to narrow. Especially with the latest release of BLHeli 14 and refresh rates up to 4KHz I believe. The new RG20s look compelling.

As Boris B puts it in this post
(brilliant thread by joshuabardwell btw) Kiss goes for the least delay, but is more prone to little variations in signal, whereas BLHeli filters the input more.

If the KISS ESCs hadn't exploded on me I wouldn't be looking at RG20s today.

 

[narcolepticltd]

Absolutely tempted, but after 8 of them flamed out on my desk I swore...

we need to buy you a humidifier

I think the biggest issue KISS has is 2300kv cobras with bullnose pulling a lot more amps than expected (and subpar tuning), combined with the issues cleanflight has in 1.9 with vibrations... the new filters take care of a lot of that though. I want to run bulls on 2300, but I think I'm going to wait for the 30a version before I give it a go