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Orange RX new 3 axis gyro for planes $14.99

Ak Flyer

Fly the wings off
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#1
I just got the e-mail. It sounds just like the AS3X that Horizon has on their ultra micros and if I remember the ultra micro beast review correctly the Josh's loved it. I may have to try it on a few of my planes. I don't know if it will work with ailerons on different channels but I'm definitely going to try it on something. I have a 3D plane that I like to fly in the wind. I can't think of a better test that that.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...light_Deck_Update_31_07_2012&utm_medium=email
 
#2
Orange Rx 3-Axis Stabilizer in a HK Bixler Mk I

I added the Orange Rx 3-Axis Stabilizer to my Hobbyking Bixler Mk I. If you fly in windy conditions like we have here in Hawaii, it is well worth the $14.99 investment.

At the time I purchased the stabilizer, there were no installation instructions and I had to go internet hunting to find instructions for similar gyroscopes. However, installing was still relatively straightforward and successful. Now, there are excellent instructions by MyCoolRC.com in the "Files" folder at the bottom of the stabilizer web page on the Hobbyking site ( http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uploads/933532603X60576X56.pdf ) and a very nice installation video by MMerry2 here on the Flitetest site ( http://flitetest.com/articles/OrangeRx_Stabilizer_Setup_on_a_Bixler ). Installation tip: For the wires, "black to back"; for the stabilizer itself, "pots to the front."

I placed my stabilizer just aft of the ventilation hole on the belly interior of the Bixler Mk. I. This puts the stabilizer as close to the center of gravity as possible while still allowing access to gain controls ("pots") and reversal switch (dips). I secured it to the interior belly floor with Scotch Indoor/Outdoor Mounting Tape, which holds more securely than the 3M white foam tape and is readily available at a hardware store.

When holding the stabilizer up with the gain control pots on top and the wire pins on the bottom, the pots turn from the 7:00 position, through the 12:00 position, and ending at the 5:00 position. From 7:00 to 12:00, there is no gyro input; from 12:00 to about 2:00, there is minimal gyro input; but from 2:00 to 5:00, the input is VERY sensitive.

After trimming out the Bixler with no gyro input (all gain control pots at 12:00), I landed and moved the 3 gain control pots to the 3:00 position. After getting the gain control inputs corrected, the difference in smoothness of flight was amazing.

From my flights, I have discovered the following:

1. For the most part, the Orange Rx Stabilizer does not adversely affect your ability to control the plane; it just helps smooth out wind gust effects. One caveat is that it does affect the ability of the Bixler to do rolls. With the Orange Rx Stabilizer engaged at 3:00, the Bixler hesitated before launching into a much larger roll. On my next flight, I will move the control wires in 1 notch on the control horns to see if this helps alleviate the problem.

2. Since the Bixler is elevator sensitive to begin with, it is also elevator sensitive with the Orange Rx Stabilizer engaged. At 3:00 on the elevator pot, I got pitch oscillations at half throttle. I backed the elevator pot back to the 2:00 position and that seemed to cure the problem.

3. In a high speed, full throttle dive, I noticed some roll oscillations otherwise not present when the aileron pot was set at 3:00. I may back down the aileron pots to about 2:30 to see if this cures the problem.

As I noted at the beginning, at least for the Bixler Mk I, the Orange Rx Stabilizer is well worth the $14.99 investment.
 
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colorex

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#3
Thanks for posting! I have a friend who was considering getting this stabilizer. I'll forward this post to him. Cheers! :)
 

lobstermash

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#6
The question is not how HK do it, because they make a decent profit still, but how other companies charge so much for something that doesn't cost them much to produce.

I'm still amazed that the latest Multiwii board from HK, with the GPS system, is just $62... The board alone costs $90 elsewhere, and the GPS module is worth $40 on its own.
 

Ak Flyer

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#7
Well, I think mass production and mass sales has a lot to do with it. Kind of the way Amazon is making so much money while only making a few cents on each sale, they do so much of it that it's profitable. Hobbyking sells such a large quantity of items that they can sell with marginal profit and still make out well. If you are a small company making this stuff from scratch and only selling a few and not having thousands of other products to offset your small profits then it's much harder to make a living. Plus it's a lot easier to copy someone else's ideas and sell them cheaper than it is to do your own r&d and develop stuff from scratch. Notice that Hobbyking rarely if ever is an innovator, they simply copy things and sell them cheaper. If we don't support the innovators then they'll go out of business.
 

colorex

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#8
Notice that Hobbyking rarely if ever is an innovator, they simply copy things and sell them cheaper
There is Turnigy 9XR, OrangeRX Stabilization, KKBoard V2, Bixler 2.

But then there is also OrangeRX, Turnigy 9X, Bixler 1, Kinetic 800...

They do innovate sometimes.
 

Ak Flyer

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#9
3 axis stabilization=AS3X=Horizon Hobby KK Board was not invented by hobbyking. It was made By Rolf Bakke. The second one was made by Rolf Bakke for Hobbyking. They asked him to make another one but they are not the ones doing the R&D. Bixler 2... Really? A bigger Bixler.....that was a hard one. Orange RX are just rX's using someone else's (see Horizon Hobby) 2.4 technology. Bixler 1=Skysurfer. These are all copies or stuff made my other people. They are a store, not a manufacturer. They have things made for them but they don't create anything new.

As for Turnigy, try finding anything about them. Where is their manufacturing facility? When are their headquarters? Everything I can find points to them being a name that Hobbyking places on products that they pick up at various places and re badge. Sort of a "house brand".

Now before I get lit up here, I am NOT saying that these are bad products. I buy Turnigy batteries exclusively. I am quite fond of Hobbyking and there are parts bought from there on most every aircraft I own. All I'm saying is that they find stuff and resell it. Tower Hobbies is the same. They have the Tower brand but they don't make any of it. They buy cheap and put their name on it and sell it at a lower price.

The opposite end of the spectrum is Horizon Hobby who manufactures several lines of models including Blade, E-flite, Hangar 9, Hobbyzone, Parkzone, Spektrum, Evolution Engines as well as several surface brands. They also have a store front but they are first and foremost a manufacturer. They pioneered DSM2, DSMX, AS3X stabilization and many others. They innovate. The prices are also indicative of that.
 

colorex

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#10
3 axis stabilization=AS3X
I meant to say that the Turnigy 9XR, OrangeRX Stabilization, KKBoard V2 and the Bixler 2 are not direct copies of other companies' products. Like the OrangeRX, Turnigy 9X, Bixler 1 and the Kinetic 800 are.

Of course Turnigy is just a brand - and HobbyKing doesn't own any factories... but they did hire Rolf Bakke to make the KK2 for example. And they have their own engineers to make the new 9XR instead of branding a FlySky TX like the 9x.
 

lobstermash

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#11
The Durafly range were designed and built from the ground up by HK. And 3 axis stabilisation is an idea stolen from open source projects that used sensors from the Nintendo Wii. DSMX is simply a copy of other frequency hopping technologies, which people demanded because DSM2 was horrendously out of date for such expensive systems.

I'm pretty certain HK have at least standard profit margins on their products - they seem to be in the range of 20-30% on most products and a little higher on some others (based on the various discounting processes I've observed on the site). According to Mr Hand, there are 5000 orders per day. That's not that many if you consider all the LHS purchases across the world in one day, many of which sell Horizon gear as their 'affordable' stuff.

To say Horizon's prices are higher because they are innovators is off the mark. They sell their product through the traditional supply chain, with markups and transport costs being incurred at the wholesaler and retailer level. There's also a built in levy for their 'outstanding customer service'. All the spare parts, like servos, receivers, motors and ESCs are horrendously overpriced so that people buy a new plane instead of replacing a couple of bits and pieces that fail in a crash.

I think that what Anthony has done in building Hobbyking from humble beginnings in a little Australian town, making strong business connections in China, plugging away with a modern business model, getting through the phase of being the cheapest and starting to get into making great planes from design to product, is quite remarkable. The last nut to crack is improving customer service, but really, the only way to do that is to concentrate the product lines to something manageable, which is unlikely to happen any time soon because HK are known for their incredible product diversity.
 

Ak Flyer

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#12
The Durafly range were designed and built from the ground up by HK. And 3 axis stabilisation is an idea stolen from open source projects that used sensors from the Nintendo Wii. DSMX is simply a copy of other frequency hopping technologies, which people demanded because DSM2 was horrendously out of date for such expensive systems. .
I'll concede on the durafly line and they have done some nice things with it, but like you said, 3 axis was done long before and that was my point. The Orange Rx lines are not doing anything new. I think Hobbyking gets too much credit for some things. They are hiring outside people to design things for them and that's completely fine. No different than Horizon Hiring Mike McConville to build planes for them.

I'm really not trying to bash Hobbyking here, I buy just as much of my stuff from them as other people do I just want to be realistic about it. There's a few people that seem to think that Hobbyking invented the wheel. Anthony has done a great job of providing low cost stuff to a broad market and I hope he continues to do well and the more he brings in things like the KK 2.0 the better he's going to do. I like what he's doing with the Turnigy line and he's making good moves with the 9XR, but we all know the first 9X was a rebadged Flysky system. That's not innovation, that's good business. Again I'm not bashing Anthony I'm just being realistic.
As far as DSMX being a copy of frequency hopping, so is FHSS, DMSS, FAST.....They are all doing the same thing. You can't take away the DSM2 or the original DSM though.

Still not trying to compare the two directly because you can't. They are totally different companies. Not trying to take anything away from Hobbyking either...that they've earned.

Now are you telling me that Horizon's R&D, developing DSM, DSM2, developing the Blade helicopter line....none of that increases costs? You don't think that has anything to do with increased prices? They just eat all of that? There's a big difference in employing a team of designers to develop products in house and telling your chinese supplier to make a plane that looks like this one. Or telling them that we want our new plane to work with DSM2 using our copycat receivers. (which I have several of and am quite fond of) True, horizon uses the tried and true method of distributing to hobby shops and using a network of dealers and therefore building their customer support at the same time. Are you saying that you wouldn't like the option of going to a hobby shop and getting all these great hobbyking products and then being able to take your stuff back there when there's a problem? Or getting help with setting up your new KK 2.0 board?

We're basically trading the luxury of a local retailer with in depth knowledge of the products for the convenience of buying it cheap straight from china.

Now that has proven to be a good option for thousands of people and I have no doubt that many local hobby shops are going out of business due to increased internet sales. That's just the future of the world.

I will say that I prefer to buy domestically made products and yes I know that that's near impossible these days. But the fact that every single thing they sell comes from China or Indonesia or somewhere like that doesn't make it any better. I imagine that everyone would like to support their local economy and even though parts and pieces are made in China I would rather give my money to the guy down the street or in another part of my country so at least some of those dollars will stay in my economy.

STILL NOT TRYING TO BASH HOBBYKING Just pointing out some differences.
 

Ak Flyer

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#13
You know what's funny though? If DSM2 is so out of date, why does everyone rave about the Orange Rx's? And people complain about Spektrum products so much but the new 9XR is using DSMX. I thought for sure they would have stuck with the Flysky system since everyone is saying it's the best on the market.
 

lobstermash

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#14
You know what's funny though? If DSM2 is so out of date, why does everyone rave about the Orange Rx's? And people complain about Spektrum products so much but the new 9XR is using DSMX. I thought for sure they would have stuck with the Flysky system since everyone is saying it's the best on the market.
I think people rave about the Orange receivers because they're so cheap and work better than the genuine ones. Quite frankly I have no idea why Hobbyking is going down the path of DSMX - perhaps it's to capture the people who haven't moved to a 9x because all their receivers are DSM2 or DSMX and don't want to buy all new receivers.

The local hobby shops, like all local shops, have to find a way to be more competitive and add value. When a brushless motor is $8 from Hobbyking (I've got good ones for less than $4 from Leader Hobby), and it's >$50 for exactly the same spec one from a LHS and it's also made in China, you start questioning how valuable that advice is. Especially when there are a million people online who can help you just as much for free, who don't have ulterior motives about taking as much cash off you as they can. I'm not saying the LHS is irrelevant, but from all the ones I've visited, there's a lot of room for improvement.
 

Ak Flyer

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#15
I have to agree with the first part. That's the number one reason I have Turnigy motors. I checked all the specs and they are identical to the e-flite motors at more than twice the price. Same with batteries. They are way cheaper and just as good.

What about all the people that have flysky equipment though, aren't they being left behind?

There are good and bad hobby shops too. I can tell you though that I learned more about setting up my helicopter by spending one hour with an experienced pilot and builder at the hobby shop than I did in weeks of researching online.

There's no substitute for one on one personal instruction and not all hobby shops are only about getting your money. That's one reason I always encourage people to seek out local clubs because you just can't beat the personal help no matter how much time you spend online.

Let me pose this question. When we spend all of our money online and there's little to no support for our LHS, do you expect the service to get any better?

These guys are usually taking a huge risk by opening a shop to try and make a living by doing something they enjoy. Usually the good ones go out of business and the sharks scrape by selling air hogs and cheap toys and skimping on the stuff that the serious modelers need. When you get a good, helpful, friendly hobby shop and we don't support them they go out of business and we're stuck finding things online because there aren't any options.

There's a hobby shop I have to go to that deals more in trains and figurines for board games than they do rc and there's only a couple guys there that actually know anything about rc. They have an okay selection and I bought my first plane and my first helicopter there but the help is lacking. That's not to say that all the employees are that way, in fact they have one of the most knowledgeable nitro heli's guys I've ever met there but most of the guys are just normal mall employees not modelers. Can't really blame them for not having a huge base of experience to draw from when they barely know how to run the cash register.

Still, I would rather give them my money than buy online because they are always open when I need them and when I can get hold of the experienced guys it's well worth the trip just for the advice.

Here's another one. If you get help from some guy online and it's wrong........it's just wrong. If you get wrong advice from your LHS it affects their bottom line. They depend on their reputation. If they provide good service they stay afloat. If not they go under. How many times have you read bad advice online? How often are people preaching information when they themselves have never even tried it? How long have you looked online to find a consistent answer to a problem? I literally spent weeks searching for answers that I got in an hour in my LHS (which is 360 miles away, so I know a thing or two about online research and ordering).

There needs to be a balance here because the way things are going there won't be any local hobby shops left and we'll all be getting the type of customer service you see from hobbyking and nitroplanes. At the same time can you really blame customer service on hobbyking? They are trying to serve thousands of people with thousands of products. They can't possibly find that many experienced modelers to help with all of our questions. That's why they advertise on their website that they'll give us store credits for helping answer questions for them. They need help and can't find it. Most of the people that know this stuff are like us and have spent years gaining this knowledge. I don't know about you but even though I enjoy the hobby and really like sharing what I know, I can't afford to quit my job and go work at a hobby shop because they don't pay enough because no one shops there because they're all buying online.
 

lobstermash

Propaganda machine
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#16
I don't think the 9XR is replacing the 9x per se. And I'm sure HK will still sell receivers. If not, you can get them at Leader Hobby or R2 Hobbies.

I hear you on the wrong advice online stuff. I was an early teen when the age of the Internet began and have a very adept bs filter for online content. I largely used online resources and intuition to work out what I know in the hobby. That said, I know not everyone learns that way. I'm currently helping out a couple of blokes learning to fly who need that hands on, go through everything and explain how it all works a few times over. I wish HK gave me royalties for the stuff they buy on my advice! I guess this is how clubs get started...

I'm personally convinced that there's a different way for shops (all shops, not just hobby stores) to run to still provide the service they do (as in advice, warranty, having stuff on hand etc.) and still be competitive with online stores. There's just a lack of creativity and will to change from the ancient business model.
 

Ak Flyer

Fly the wings off
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#17
I was under the impression that the 9XR was their new bread and butter. I hope they continue to refine the 9X for the guys that use it or even better come out with an 11X or something.

I have an impromptu sort of club starting here as well. There's about 5 of us that fly pretty regularly indoors during the winter and we're all trying to pool our talents and connections to build a gravel strip on some city land for the summer time. The problem is getting 5 people with extremely busy summer schedules together at the same time and an extremely rainy/windy summer hasn't helped either. I've been toying with the idea of forming an actual club to encourage participation but I can't do it on my own. We have a few new guys we've taken under our wing and they seem to really benefit from our time one on one. It's pretty cool. I'm considering trimming down my fleet this winter by selling some of my smaller stuff. My kids haven't really been as interested as I thought they would be so I'm sitting on a few beginner planes just gathering dust. Hopefully it'll start a few new pilots.

I do think that the current shops need to take a step back and evaluate themselves and their clients. There's a big generation gap between the old balsa and fuel only guys and the new foam and electric only guys. There's a few that do both like me and us helicopter guys are sort of out on their own. It seems like when you get a shop that has good support for one they exclude the other. So far my favorite shop is a huge store that's all RC downstairs with a really good mix of helicopter and fixed wing on one side and a good selection of surface stuff on the other. And while a couple of the employees are total assholes, the other guys make up for them and even the douchebags have a lot of experience and are helpful if you can get past the I'm better than you attitude. They have a great parts selection too. Then upstairs they have just as much room dedicated to static modeling. They seem to be making a good run and the support is usually very good.

They are still working on embracing the foam models as most of them are old school scratch or kit build guys but they are carrying parts. I typically go there for helicopter parts and advice as they have fully embraced the growing helicopter market with all the Blades lines and a lot of ALign and Thunder Tiger products. The other mall store I talked about earlier has more of the foam RTF's and things like that. I somewhat doubt we'll ever see a perfect hobby shop partly because there's just so much out there and it's hard for any modeler to be really good at all of it. Plus you have to work with the local market and sell what people are buying.

I was thinking about what I would do if I were starting a hobby shop. I'd probably have the flyzone and Parkzone/Hobbyzone lines and as much scratch build stuff as I could sell but I would stay away from Balsa and nitro initially because there aren't many experienced modelers around here that are up for those challenges. Assuming a successful business, I would eventually try to expand my lines to include balsa kits, nitro and helicopters but until people are bored with foam park flyers and need a new challenge I don't see it selling well.

Honestly, the only reason I got back into modeling was because of the Hobbyzone all inclusive RTF planes that were affordable. I hadn't put time into finding it cheaper and I know most people that are only casually thinking about getting into it aren't going to go on Hobbyking and spec out all the stuff to do it cheaper, they're busy people. They want to grab a box and have everything in it and they don't want to wait two months for it to arrive from overseas.

A good friend of mine runs a local plumbing supply store that he bought from the original owner whom he'd worked for since high school. He's extremely knowledgeable and very very helpful. People go to him to because of his customer service. He can't match the big store prices but he gets close. He runs a lower overhead but carries what people need and use all the time but the best part is that he knows his products inside and out because he's been doing that job forever. He's happy doing that job. Seems like you just don't find that anymore. How often do you go to a hardware store and find an employee who actually knows how to fix anything? It's hard to find experienced help in retail because those with experience are usually out making more money doing it for themselves. I have the same problem finding a parts person (I'm a mechanic by trade) that knows anything. Our local guys are totally lost if they can't find it in their computer system in the first two minutes. I remember going to a parts house with my dad and listening to him order parts and the guys at the counter knew as much about it as my dad did. All those guys are now retired and in their place are people that just don't care. I wish I knew how to fix that.