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Pancake(round flying wing)

Vimana89

Well-known member
#1
I'd like to start by thanking everyone who responded to my first thread. I've already learned quite a bit from all the input I received there, and its helping me sort of decide what direction I want to go in for a first build.This thread is for my idea for a possible first project that keeps it simple and allows me to learn, while still being a bit unconventional and fun. I'm looking to basically build this
but without the whole mosaic thing(building from a pile of scraps), and utilizing the electronics I already have from failed builds. My electronics are this power pack https://store.flitetest.com/flite-test-power-pack-a-minis-flt-3001/p674262, but now missing the propellers that came with the kit, and the little nose nut end cap thingy. I'm using this transmitter and receiver https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobby-king-2-4ghz-4ch-tx-rx-v2-mode-2.html?___store=en_us and this batteryhttps://www.getfpv.com/tattu-650mah-2s1p-75c-7-4v-lipo-battery-pack-with-xt30-plug.html. Will those be adequate for the build? Also, what type of propeller would work best? Aside from those questions, I'd just need some basic info as I build along the way. Anyone have any experience with this type of build, and is there anything special to know? It looks fairly simple to build and fly, and it has me interested enough to want to keep it straightforward and not alter the design much or at all. I think I could potentially learn a lot from building this and flying it that would help with eventually making my own designs. Thoughts?

-link fixed on vid
 

DamoRC

Well-known member
Mentor
#2
The first thing I would suggest is get a new battery. If you have been running the a-pack motor with a-pack props (6x3) on 2S then you are not really getting the power that the motor can deliver. An 800mah 3S, in the 25-30c range would be good.

DamoRC
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#4
Thanks for the input. I got a nice 11.1v 3s tattu battery but it has the wrong connectors for that power pack, so I'll have to see about some sort of adapter, or simply buy a new battery and save that one for something later. The 6x3 is what the power pack came with, and I broke both of them-I can get new ones no prob, was just wondering if using a different kind would be better suited to the flying wing, but it makes sense to use those ones I suppose. Another question, more to do with the body-is it necessary to bend at an angle to get that wing shape for stability, or can I leave the wing flat and just add two stabilizers to achieve the same effect?
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#6
I'd guess that you could probably get away with that.

Here's a guy who just stuck a vertical stabilizer on a sheet of foam board and it seemed to work just fine.


DamoRC
Good stuff. The simpler the better as far as manufacturing. I'd put in the effort to do the angles just right if they were absolutely necessary, but I kind of like the idea of just adding stabilizers in their place.
 

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
#7
I'd guess that you could probably get away with that.

Here's a guy who just stuck a vertical stabilizer on a sheet of foam board and it seemed to work just fine.


DamoRC
That's just stupid crazy with some WTF mixed in. Honestly my brain is having a hard time processing it. OK. watched it, then I stopped the vid early, and the sheet is cut down and has control surfaces with servos. Sanity restored.
 

d8veh

Well-known member
#9
His sheet doesn't look flat to me. It looks like it has slight dihedral. He's using elevons to control it for which you need a transmitter that can deal with mixing, while as the guy with the disc is most likely using conventional elevator and rudder. The double dihedral on the disc helps a lot with the pitch stability. Without that, you'd need to be quite experienced to fly it.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#10
His sheet doesn't look flat to me. It looks like it has slight dihedral. He's using elevons to control it for which you need a transmitter that can deal with mixing, while as the guy with the disc is most likely using conventional elevator and rudder. The double dihedral on the disc helps a lot with the pitch stability. Without that, you'd need to be quite experienced to fly it.
Sounds like I'll want to stick with the dihedral build for the disc. Anything that makes it more stable and easy to fly is sounding really good to me.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#12
You might try using these Plans , I used an f-pack on mine and it had plenty of power.
Thanks, this is very helpful, the nutball is practically the same exact plane as the video I linked and has more precise plans and info on how to build it available so that's good. I could buy that pack if it would work better, but if I could use the power pack I already have that would be more convenient.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#13
on second thought, I can't remember 100% whether it was the f pack or a pack I bought, I believe it's the a though. Will check when I get a chance.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#14
it is in fact the a pack with the 2280 kv motor. Would that work just as well, and would I have to tweak much in the design to accommodate? I could order the other pack and save my a pack for something else if it would be a problem, but I'd like to use my a pack if possible.
 

DamoRC

Well-known member
Mentor
#15
You should only have to tweak the motor mount, and not by that much I would guess.

Good idea to look at the various specs for the parts. If you check the specs on the A-pack motor (they are not always listed on the FT site so google the emax name and number) you'll find that on 3S with a 6 x 4 prop will give you 240 grams of thrust. Then check the specs of the Nutball and you'll find that the plane without battery weighs approx 210 grams. So theoretically you should have plenty of power. That being said, the nutball doesn't fly as much as it drags the plane through the air in high alpha. So build as light as possible and you should be good (or you could scale it down a little to cut down the weight).

DamoRC
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#16
You should only have to tweak the motor mount, and not by that much I would guess.

Good idea to look at the various specs for the parts. If you check the specs on the A-pack motor (they are not always listed on the FT site so google the emax name and number) you'll find that on 3S with a 6 x 4 prop will give you 240 grams of thrust. Then check the specs of the Nutball and you'll find that the plane without battery weighs approx 210 grams. So theoretically you should have plenty of power. That being said, the nutball doesn't fly as much as it drags the plane through the air in high alpha. So build as light as possible and you should be good (or you could scale it down a little to cut down the weight).

DamoRC
Good input. I'll double check the specs and the scale I'll want to go with. I'll be ordering the couple small parts I'm missing soon, and next time I'd downtown I'll be picking up the foamboard. I'll be posting my progress as I go and looking to receive help with anything that may give me trouble along the way, or anything I'm just unsure on
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#17
Got some foam board today, and ordering last couple small parts tonight. My plan is to use my available A power pack, and scale down the build slightly. The nutball in the swappable series build around the mid sized power packs has about a 19 inch wingspan. I'm thinking maybe a 15 for a A pack? Also, Its not a pack I'm probably going to use for a lot of things in the future, so I will be building mine a bit more fixed and simplified without the ability to swap out. I saw a vid where somebody positioned most or all the electronics along the top. I may do something similar. Really, the simpler the better for this build.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#18
My propellers and a couple of good 11v1v 3s batteries should be here tomorrow. My receiver has a nick in the antenna covering, but I don't think any damage. I'll see soon enough, but got a new cheap and light 3ch one on the way due Monday. I may begin working with the foam board already this afternoon. I'll update any major progress. Biggest hurdle might be the control surfaces and push rods, but I'm reading and watching things that simplify it a bit. I like the FT control horn hack, where I can make them the exact length I want out of zip ties(I have a ton of zip ties!), so I think I'll go that route. I lost or accidentally tossed the horns that came with my servos originally, so that will be more economical and just as functional.
 

Vimana89

Well-known member
#19
Well there's my nutball-looks like a real speed build, seeing as every poindexter with a YouTube channel can build a cleaner plane off of no plan in an hour or less, and then fly it successfully. But guess what? This took me over SIX HOURS of straight work(cutting my fingers on the prop by accident too), and it flopped like a turd twice when I tried to hand launch it. Infuriating. Is it wind? Is it weight distribution? Is it that I'm just crap at hand launching and need wheels? Everything seems to check out mechanically. The control surfaces are a bit crude, they were the hardest part for me, but they function like they should when I test them-not to mention the plane flopped so fast I didn't even employ them yet. The motor was at full bore when I chucked it(and yes, it was thrusting in the right direction). Would a couple small tweaks get me airborne? Or should I just can this plane and this hobby, before I waste all my time, blood, sweat, tears, and money for no return?
 

Attachments

buzzbomb

I know nothing!
#20
Well there's my nutball-looks like a real speed build, seeing as every poindexter with a YouTube channel can build a cleaner plane off of no plan in an hour or less, and then fly it successfully. But guess what? This took me over SIX HOURS of straight work(cutting my fingers on the prop by accident too), and it flopped like a turd twice when I tried to hand launch it. Infuriating. Is it wind? Is it weight distribution? Is it that I'm just crap at hand launching and need wheels? Everything seems to check out mechanically. The control surfaces are a bit crude, they were the hardest part for me, but they function like they should when I test them-not to mention the plane flopped so fast I didn't even employ them yet. The motor was at full bore when I chucked it(and yes, it was thrusting in the right direction). Would a couple small tweaks get me airborne? Or should I just can this plane and this hobby, before I waste all my time, blood, sweat, tears, and money for no return?
I "liked" that post because you, to me at least, seem to be at the pinnacle of that mountain that I've got to climb. Then we've both got to get over the top, so we can coast down the other side. On a sled, with greased runners and maybe a rocket behind it. Oh, and wings!

Post video of you moving your controllers, and how the the control surfaces of your plane move. Together. I've seen time and again, how that helps solve problems. Don't stress the crashing. Build. Fly. Crash. Repeat.

Post pictures and vids and let the people on this forum actually help you. Don't give up. Your at the right place to help you fly an RC aircraft. I've learned that. But in order to help, the helpers need visual.

You have climbed the mountain. Don't give up when you are so near the top. Not when there are so many willing to help.