Paperless XPS/Depron types vs. Adams Ready Board common for FT builders?

[Masterguns]

Howdy, friends...Just a genuine curiosity of mine about, why, for example, the FT Master Series builds are considered challenging for "expert" to build as it pertains to the build itself while at the same time hundreds of other builders have used skinless XPS type foam for a couple of decades. I thought it what the norm, but wonder why Overstreet's designs & builds are considered a different level of FT designs. Before I recently started getting really interested in the FT plans & builds a month or so ago, it seems to me that 99% of the designs for the builds call for use almost exclusively with board that maintains the paper backing. I've been building off plans for use with skinless Model Airplane Foam & Depron/XPS brands of board. Molding these boards is very easy, especially liberal use of a heat gun & bending/forming the sheets while packing taped on the opposite side of the bending direction using a rigid round item like PVS pipe, hollow metal or solid metal rod & finishing off with colored packing tape & homemade decal stickers. Is the FT community that builds their offerings not familiar with these methods using the paperless XPS foams? I wouldn't call what I'm doing Master Series by any means. Videos with free plans show how common & easy it is to form the board to whatever shape you require. Within the scope of some of its limitations depending on the airframe complexity, of course.

Julius Pardona(sp?) from Malaysia is a master at using skinless foam board just as NumaVig from Russia. I'm sure many of you are already subscribed to their YT channels. I just thought it's a no brainer since that's what I started on. It's seems odd that Master Series doesn't take into account the plethora of designers & builders in out great hobby while calling all the different shapes that can be made. Just thinking out loud, but I'm being nosey on a lazy afternoon for me. Not intending to sound like I'm against the Overstreet designs, because, indeed they are works of art, so please don't take my musing & questions out of context. I'm looking forward to gaining knowledge from those of you that are more learned about the FT designs & the very needed & outstanding things FT is doing for those of us that love the hobby & get the satisfaction of learning build techs & the outreach they are doing to get more folks into or back into this hobby. Especially the children.

RC air participation perhaps has turned into a bunch of gate keepers that have been flying for decades & there seems to be somewhat lacking with the newer generation age groups of rc air enthusiasts. The generational gap is a large divide between GenX like me who started flying in 1986 as a tween. Same with the many Boomers still around & many Millennials. Less so in the current gens. Without them willingly getting interested & participating now, the future of rc air will be dead in about 20 years in my humble opinion. I credit my genesis into building balsa kits on the tile in front of our family fire place until I graduated HS & entered the business endeavor of warfighting in the Marine Corps & there was nary a time when I could continue the hobby until retiring not too long ago. Anyways, you'll learn that I can get to yapping, so that's enough rambling for one post. Please forgive me if I've furthered your eye strain by reading to the end. I love you guys & y'all's knowledge, ingenuity, imaginations & know how really amaze me. Y'all please stay safe & as well as possible. Have a wonderful & relaxing weekend.

Best regards,
Masterguns

 

[bisco]

i can't answer your questions, but thank you for the good wishes, and all the best in retirement!

 

[TEAJR66]

Watch older FT Videos. MPF was featured in at least one video as the build material.

I think Andres built his fowler flaps plane from MPF. That was a great episode.

The FT Master series is such in contrast to the original build techniques used for earlier FT designs. Simple, repeatable build techniques that used inexpensive and readily available materials. "A" and "B" folds kept things relatively simple. "A" folded channels of the same dimensions fit inside "B" folded channels. Poster board was easy to bend over curved surfaces. Three and four break wings were easier to keep consistent as opposed to say, experimental airlines type folded wings. These earlier techniques produced a lot of fun to fly designs that did not necessarily replicate a specific full scale plane.

Evolution.

Foam board becomes a popular medium and build skills increase. Folks start using the foam medium to model full scale aircraft.

John Overstreet's son gets into FT and rc planes. John, as a supportive father, joins his son on the FT journey. John's metal fabricating and CAD skills fuse with foam board and more scale looking models result. As active community members they share their designs and experiences. If you post in just about any rc forum about your design and build, the very next post in that forum usually looks like this

"Plans?"

Viola, master series!

I still design and build in the older FT style because I don't want pretty, scale models. I like playing with flying toys. Eventually I will use the three boxes of MPF that I own.

 

[Mr Man]

I’m genz!

 

[quorneng]

It seems that foam board construction has rather ignored the old boat building technique of using long narrow planks in favour of having to physically form sheet panels into double curves.
It should be noted that with long planks the glue joints to its neighbor are in shear rather than in tension as is the case with individual panels. A planked structure is intrinsically stronger and stiffer for the same weigh of foam material.

 

[Piotrsko]

Last I saw, depron and it's equivalent were not paper covered. Cant easily bend the paper into small radiuses which is kinda the point. Master series is that, gotta be good enough to construct them. If you're like me, slab side is much easier for fumble old fingers

 

[TEAJR66]

Whack em together, fly em into the dirt. None of my folded foam planes last very long.

Even my ARF and RTF foamies have a relatively short life compared to my other club mates planes.

For me it's more about playing with flying toys than modeling.

It's your happiness, pursue it however you want.

 

[Masterguns]

Last I saw, depron and it's equivalent were not paper covered. Cant easily bend the paper into small radiuses which is kinda the point. Master series is that, gotta be good enough to construct them. If you're like me, slab side is much easier for fumble old fingers

That’s what I was curious about. Non-backed XPS 5-6mm or less is easier to bend into some really nice airframes with a heat gun or iron, packing tape & a firm rolling median like PVC pipe or metal rod of 1” or more, or a combo of all of the above. Plus it’s lighter. But, I’m coming from using Depron to here us g DTF Adam’s Readi-board with both sides of the paper to make these nifty FT. In any case, I’m really starting to like the MS & simpler FT builds alike. I think it’s time for me to end my EPO type mass-produced type foamies purchased online. Foam board is much more interesting to me now. Thanks for these outstanding plans & ideas!

 

[Masterguns]

I’m genz!

We've survived!

 

[Mr Man]

We've survived!

I know other “young guns“ who also fly 👍. It’s the best hobby ever. Except for maybe dirt bikes…

 

[Piotrsko]

Missing the top 3: girls, fast cars, bunches of money

 

[Mr Man]

uh, no…. Fast cars? Yes, the other 2? No. 🤣

 

[quorneng]

I am still convinced 3mm paperless foam sheet is a wonderful construction material. Not really "whack em together" stuff but it can result in a remarkably low final weight of even a true scale airliner.

All built using 3mm sheet Depron with no carbon anywhere. Just a bit of hard balsa for centre section of the wing spar. The wing is removable held on by 4 nylon bolts. A motor, ESC and LiPo in each nacelle. The Rx is in the wing so once it is on only the elevator and rudder servos to connect to get it ready to fly.

 

[Mr Man]

I am still convinced 3mm paperless foam sheet is a wonderful construction material. Not really "whack em together" stuff but it can result in a remarkably low final weight of even a true scale airliner.
View attachment 253003
All built using 3mm sheet Depron with no carbon anywhere. Just a bit of hard balsa for centre section of the wing spar. The wing is removable held on by 4 nylon bolts. A motor, ESC and LiPo in each nacelle. The Rx is in the wing so once it is on only the elevator and rudder servos to connect to get it ready to fly.

Wow, nice plane!

 

[Bricks]

I wish we could still get depron in the states it it was fantastic to work with.

 

[FoamyDM]

I wish we could still get depron in the states it it was fantastic to work with.

https://www.rcdepron.com/ is the state-based supplier for Depron, wide selections, and a range of options for purchase, from a try-it amount to I'm building a full size model.

 

[FoamyDM]

That’s what I was curious about. Non-backed XPS 5-6mm or less is easier to bend into some really nice airframes with a heat gun or iron, packing tape & a firm rolling median like PVC pipe or metal rod of 1” or more, or a combo of all of the above. Plus it’s lighter. But, I’m coming from using Depron to here us g DTF Adam’s Readi-board with both sides of the paper to make these nifty FT. In any case, I’m really starting to like the MS & simpler FT builds alike. I think it’s time for me to end my EPO type mass-produced type foamies purchased online. Foam board is much more interesting to me now. Thanks for these outstanding plans & ideas!

@Masterguns glad you are seeing what much of the community sees. Also, you are Exactly right, Julius Perdona's videos show him heating a pipe, or the Depron directly and rolling it over the pipe for smooth bends. when working tight bends, it is suggested that you put packing tape on the outside, heat, bend, then cool and remove the tape. It works great. Much of the community here are either new and the FT vids are their entry (like me). Or like you are trying some new method/material. FT plans are replicas of existing designs mostly. But this method is an easy prototyping method, cheap and accessible (go down the street and get started). the emotional and physical costs as a barrier to success are much lower.

The Adams Readi-board composite (paper-foam-paper) is a lightweight strong composite. Depron will require a core structure for significant strength or rigidity. Easily obtained by Balsa or CF rods. It depends on what you have available or on-hand to you where you are. corrugated plastic (sign board) is great for some of these structures for Depron, as it can integrate CF tubes in the corrugations where needed.
A friend of mine uses a needle cutter to cut the 1/2 XPS and uses the film to heat and bend (like Depron) then removes the film after it's glued in place. (sometimes). Those here who haven't ventured beyond are losing out on methods that may extend or improve the build styles here. I say go look and try.
For my brain, this is a lot more effort than I care for at the moment. I have found that with a few choice reinforcements, Campfire smore skewers and broom-handle wing jointers, you can build a12' WS plane strong enough for acrobatics. I don't have a ton of Balsa or Depron on hand, nor experience enough to go either way, but you build what you know.

Sounds like it's time for me to start learning some other materials' strengths. To find the best methods for strong-light-inexpensive-fun building.

I'm glad you found this community and are enjoying the range of fun available here. I can't wait to see what you build going forward.

 

[FoamyDM]

View attachment 253003

Hubba hubba, what a looker.

 

[Bricks]

https://www.rcdepron.com/ is the state-based supplier for Depron, wide selections, and a range of options for purchase, from a try-it amount to I'm building a full size model.

Thanks for the link but $14 a sheet is a little stiff for a decent usable 9mm size.

 

[Masterguns]

We've survived!

Oh, wait. You said GenZ & I was thinking you said GenX. In any case, this hobby is the best for all ages. And, in addition to yours & the other's additional fav hobbies...mine is guns/shooting!