Round 2!!!!

d8veh

Elite member
Would a 4.5 really cause a esc to do that? I looked for 3... Not easy to find.
You need to tell us which battery, and motor you have.

I had the ESC in my Hobbyzone Carbon Cub S+ go like yours for no apparent reason. I flew the plane one day with no bumps, and the next day, I accidentally switched on the receiver before the transmitter. When I started the motor, I could hear it screaming and it went all jittery at low throttle, unable to start properly. Power was also right down. It had just enough to get in the air and was a struggle to bring it in to land. I opened up the ESC and checked every solder joint, then reprogrammed it, but it was still the same, so I replaced it, and now the motor works perfectly again.
 

Merv

Site Moderator
Staff member
Would a 4.5 really cause a esc to do that? I looked for 3... Not easy to find.

If the 6x3 were right on the edge of the limit of the esc, it's quite possible that going to a 6x4.5 could burn out your esc. The only way to know is with a watt meter. That's why I don't push things to the limit, I leave a good safety margin.
 

Chappie66

Active member
Would a 4.5 really cause a esc to do that? I looked for 3... Not easy to find.
Could you post the motor, ESC and battery you are using? Was it one of the FT Power Packs?

I see in one picture, in your first series of posts, a 12A BL Heli ESC, MT1806 (2280kV) and an 850mAh battery. If this is the motor/ESC combo, with a 6x4.5 prop, at full throttle, it will pull over 12 Amps continuous according to the picture.

EMAT MT1806 with 6.45.png
 
Last edited:

Txwarthog

Active member
So I have an update. Everything seems fine with the 650 battery, and now the 850...

I'm unable to give you any quantitative proof, however I could noticeably tell the difference in propellers.
 

Attachments

  • P_20181102_221746.jpg
    P_20181102_221746.jpg
    4.2 MB · Views: 0
Last edited:

PoorManRC

Master member
Kudos for your perseverance!! Sometimes, just a couple of small failures cause lesser people to Quit.
These are great Kits, and the Company behind them has done SO MUCH for the Hobby!! :)(y)(y)

I can't help with the Aircraft itself, just not enough experience....
RC Electronics is a different story. First Rule of Thumb, don't use an ESC that's even close to the Amperage Draw of the Motor/Prop Combo.

IMHO, as cheap as Air ESCs are, it's well worth it to go well beyond the Amperage needs! If my Power Pod drew 11.7 amps at full loads.....
I would always use a 20-25 Amp ESC!! Besides, underloaded, the ESC would run MUCH cooler. A definite advantage in Foam Core Board Aircraft!!!

Have Fun!
 

Txwarthog

Active member
Kudos for your perseverance!! Sometimes, just a couple of small failures cause lesser people to Quit.
These are great Kits, and the Company behind them has done SO MUCH for the Hobby!! :)(y)(y)

I can't help with the Aircraft itself, just not enough experience....
RC Electronics is a different story. First Rule of Thumb, don't use an ESC that's even close to the Amperage Draw of the Motor/Prop Combo.

IMHO, as cheap as Air ESCs are, it's well worth it to go well beyond the Amperage needs! If my Power Pod drew 11.7 amps at full loads.....
I would always use a 20-25 Amp ESC!! Besides, underloaded, the ESC would run MUCH cooler. A definite advantage in Foam Core Board Aircraft!!!

Have Fun!


Then the question is why didn't flitetest give me a better ESC? There seems to be a big learning curve you guys are filling that flitetest is missing an opportunity on.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
RC Flight has an infinite learning curve. That is what makes this so cool. What baffled Da Vinci is now common. What baffles me today will someday be as simple as tying my shoe, so long as I continue to push myself.

There is no end to the sky. This hobby will never be mastered no matter how many lifetimes are spent sounding the depths.

The key is to take it slow. Expect failure and learn from it. This isn't a test of skill. It is a test of patience and endurance. Your own mind sets the limits. On the forums we are family here to help you understand the tech but also to help you stay motivated.

The most powerful tool/obstacle you will ever posses is between your own ears. It isn't the tech that is the hard part of this hobby.

Becoming a pilot is a test of patience and perseverance reserved for a few. If you can achieve this, you will have learned valuable skills and exceptional talents the most potent of which have absolutely nothing to do with flying and everything to do with living and exploring the limitless sky.

Don't count the rounds. Don't count the triumphs or the disasters. These don't matter. Kipling calls these 'impostors'. What this hobby teaches is patience and courage and if you stick with it, you will feel the agony of defeat and the thrill of victory and will be part of a larger family of pilots and friends.

That is the point of FliteTest.
 

Ventus

Member
I may be mistaken but that 6x4.5 prop in the picture also looks suspiciously like a nitro engine prop, rather than electric. Is it by any chance substantially heavier than the 6x3?
 

Txwarthog

Active member
Unrelated question, why does my RC car servo have 4 wires, and others have 3?
 

Attachments

  • P_20181103_102356.jpg
    P_20181103_102356.jpg
    1.8 MB · Views: 0

PoorManRC

Master member
Then the question is why didn't flitetest give me a better ESC? There seems to be a big learning curve you guys are filling that flitetest is missing an opportunity on.

I should have added to that, it's not absolutely necessary to nearly Double your Motor load in an ESC....
It's just a really good idea. A margin of security.

FliteTest offers the smallest setup that will work, in their efforts to keep the initial cost down. Nobody expects the Buyer to stay with the "starter" Power throughout your progression. These are MADE to be upgraded and improved. YOU make these! You're supposed to make these into ANYTHING you want.

If you have seen the Videos, and watched Andres or others doing 3D Flying, shooting up completely vertical...
You can bet your Butt, they're NOT running Stock Electronics!!!

The stuff in the Basic Power Packsare assembled for the Buyer to have just enough power to get off the Ground. To let you experience the Joy of Flight, but without pushing you out of control with too much beginner Power!! ;)

EDIT: If your Servo has 4 or 5 Wires coming out of it, and/or if your ESC and Receiver are COMBINED into one unit.....
Then despite the fancy anodized Aluminum...... It one of the Cheap Korean Knockoffs of some American or Japanese, or even Premium Chinese Car. (n)(n):rolleyes::poop:

It sucks - because some are really crappy! In some cases though, they are copied well enough, and are strong enough.... That replacing the Servos, ESC, Receiver and maybe Shocks - and you can end up with a pretty good car in the end!!
 
Last edited:

Txwarthog

Active member
I may be mistaken but that 6x4.5 prop in the picture also looks suspiciously like a nitro engine prop, rather than electric. Is it by any chance substantially heavier than the 6x3?
it's not really any haverier.
 

Attachments

  • P_20181103_103038.jpg
    P_20181103_103038.jpg
    3.8 MB · Views: 0
  • 15412591844361404844089.jpg
    15412591844361404844089.jpg
    3.8 MB · Views: 0

Andrew

G'day Mate
Unrelated question, why does my RC car servo have 4 wires, and others have 3?
Rc servos have 3 wires like the one in your car, the 4 wires must be for the "sensored" brushless motor/esc. It go's between the motor and esc, it has a special sensor to help detect rotation at very slow speed for correct timing.
 

Txwarthog

Active member
I should have added to that, it's not absolutely necessary to nearly Double your Motor load in an ESC....
It's just a really good idea. A margin of security.

FliteTest offers the smallest setup that will work, in their efforts to keep the initial cost down. Nobody expects the Buyer to stay with the "starter" Power throughout your progression. These are MADE to be upgraded and improved. YOU make these! You're supposed to make these into ANYTHING you want.

If you have seen the Videos, and watched Andres or others doing 3D Flying, shooting up completely vertical...
You can bet your Butt, they're NOT running Stock Electronics!!!

The stuff in the Basic Power Packsare assembled for the Buyer to have just enough power to get off the Ground. To let you experience the Joy of Flight, but without pushing you out of control with too much beginner Power!! ;)


I completely understand that. I feel flitetest assumes we understand the Electronics. Seems like it could be an opportunity for some familiarization of the products they sell. Maybe they have and I'm not aware. Everything is a work in progress. I'm just offering my thoughts based on what I am running into.
 

kilroy07

Legendary member
I do need some help here. What's going on with my motor?
I’d bet dollars to doughnuts you’ve blown the ESC,

That 12a in the F pack woefully underrated and is only good on 2 cells, I’ve pulled almost 20a on a 3 cell...
(I also started with an f pack and blew mine too!) :(

I agree, a 20a ESC would make a LOT more sense in the f pack.... ‘cause your gonna run more power to that 2205 sooner or later.
 

d8veh

Elite member
I completely understand that. I feel flitetest assumes we understand the Electronics. Seems like it could be an opportunity for some familiarization of the products they sell. Maybe they have and I'm not aware. Everything is a work in progress. I'm just offering my thoughts based on what I am running into.
Be careful, I must admit that i don't agree with some of what PoorMan RC said. I think that the flitetest B and A motor packs are more than adequate for the planes they're recommended for. In fact I think they're a little too powerful if anything. I'm not sure about the F-pack because I don't have one, but I'm sure that FT chose it wisely.

You can burn just about any ESC with just about any motor if you don't use them correctly.

To answer your question, you need to understand how motors work. In case you don't know this, let me explain. This might sound complicated, but if you take it step by step, it's really simple:

There is no electronic limit for the current in the ESC. A motor has very low resistance, so if you connect it to a 3S battery, a massive current will immediately be pushed through it - enough to burn both the ESC and the motor very quickly. It has one thing that can save it, and that's the back emf (electro motive force). As soon as a motor starts to turn, it generates a voltage ( back emf). The faster it turns, the more voltage it generates. How much voltage is generated is exactly defined by the kV, so a 1000kV motor will generate 1v at 1000 rpm and 12v at 12,000 rpm. That voltage is in the opposite direction to the battery voltage, so the available voltage to the motor is reduced. Let's see what happens when we apply this to the motor I got in my A-pack, which was an Emax 2213 935kv motor with a 3S (say 12v) battery :

At 1000rpm, the battery voltage is 12 v and the motor is making .935v in the opposite direction, so we have approx 11v pushing current through the motor. The resistance of the motor is .18 ohms, so we get 11/.18 amps =61 amps, which is easily enough to burn the motor and ESC.
At 5000 rpm, the motor is making 4.675 v, so we now have 12 -4.675v = 7.3v approx and the current will be 7.3/ .18= 40 amps, which is still enough to burn both.
At 9000rpm we get 8.4v generated leaving 3.6v, which will give 3.6/.18= 20 amps, which is just on the limit for the motor and ESC.

What this means is that the motor must run faster than 9000 rpm to be safe. If you hold it still, have an ESC that can't turn it properly or have too large a propeller on the motor, it won't be running at 9000 or more rpm, so something is going to burn. With the right propeller and the motor running properly, a higher speed will be reached and everybody will be happy.

In practice, there are some other important characteristics that affect it, especially efficiency, which also depends on speed, but the example above should give you a basis for understanding the relationship between speed and current.

I should add one thing. That's all assuming maximum throttle. At anything less, the ESC interrupts the current with high frequency pulses, so there is a sort of current limiting. The lower the throttle, the bigger the limit until it's totally interrupted at zero throttle. that's why it's OK to fly round at low speed with a low throttle.

Finally, when you give full throttle at low speed, the motor accelerates quite quickly to it's maximum rpm. At first, it does draw the very high current, but it doesn't stay there long enough for anything to heat up.

IMHO, your ESC burned because an electronic fault stopped it from turning your propeller at more than 9000 rpm. Bear in mind all the crashes you had. If the plane was on the ground and you still had the throttle on, you would have had 12/.18 = 67 amps going through the ESC, which could easily be enough to damage it, even though it didn't burn.

The numbers for your motor and battery will be different, but the principle is the same.
 
Last edited:

PoorManRC

Master member
<br>
(I also started with an f pack and blew mine too!) :(

I agree, a 20a ESC would make a LOT more sense in the f pack.... ‘cause your gonna run more power to that 2205 sooner or later.

ABSOLUTELY!!!! An ESC can NOT be too powerful.... Unless of course, they get too large in size and weight!!
For my first, I'm getting a 30A, even 35A, for the 22A I expect to draw.
It's cheaper in the long run to be SAFE!
 

Txwarthog

Active member
Who needs comic relief? A song comes to mind.... Goes something like this. And a1 and a 2 ...... "She ain't going to fly no more, she ain't going to fly for sure"
 

Attachments

  • P_20181103_183107.gif
    P_20181103_183107.gif
    30.9 MB · Views: 0

Txwarthog

Active member
RC Flight has an infinite learning curve. That is what makes this so cool. What baffled Da Vinci is now common. What baffles me today will someday be as simple as tying my shoe, so long as I continue to push myself.

There is no end to the sky. This hobby will never be mastered no matter how many lifetimes are spent sounding the depths.

The key is to take it slow. Expect failure and learn from it. This isn't a test of skill. It is a test of patience and endurance. Your own mind sets the limits. On the forums we are family here to help you understand the tech but also to help you stay motivated.

The most powerful tool/obstacle you will ever posses is between your own ears. It isn't the tech that is the hard part of this hobby.

Becoming a pilot is a test of patience and perseverance reserved for a few. If you can achieve this, you will have learned valuable skills and exceptional talents the most potent of which have absolutely nothing to do with flying and everything to do with living and exploring the limitless sky.

Don't count the rounds. Don't count the triumphs or the disasters. These don't matter. Kipling calls these 'impostors'. What this hobby teaches is patience and courage and if you stick with it, you will feel the agony of defeat and the thrill of victory and will be part of a larger family of pilots and friends.

That is the point of FliteTest.


Well to be frank, we are not recrating the wheel here. We are working with recommended parts bought and sold. As a new guy my expectations are too get me up to speed.... You guys are great!