Round 2!!!!

[Txwarthog]

I'm committed more than ever to flite on as long as you guys are with me.

 

[Hai-Lee]

Just a little personal experience which might be of some value.

I had a Bixler clone which had its wings part in High "G" maneuvers. Anyway it eventually hit the ground at very high speed and smashed the fuselage all the way back to the motor. After I repaired it I found that the prop was broken and I did not have the correct prop to hand. I scrounged through my box of props and the only thing I could find was a 5x4x3 well the only thing that was small enough.

I fitted the smaller 3 blade prop to do a test flight expecting the performance to be tame at least. Well I I place the plane on the ground and then slammed the throttle to max. The plane almost stood on its nose and in almost no time it was sliding across the ground at a speed I had never experienced before. It lifted off and almost immediately the sleepy Bixler clone had a great turn of speed and i was soon passing other planes in level flight, (most of the scale warbirds).

Sometimes the motor cannot develop its full power even with the specified prop. a smaller prop can really allow the motor to rev out and if you luck out on your pitch selection you can get a faster flight with actually less current draw.

From your earlier post where you said that you must have lost communication because your motor cut out I propose that perhaps the reason the motor cut out was because the ESC was far too hot and it shut down to protect itself. Revise your prop use and ventilation to allow your ESC to operate within its specs and cool.

Just what worked for me!

have fun!

 

[buzzbomb]

Who needs comic relief? A song comes to mind.... Goes something like this. And a1 and a 2 ...... "She ain't going to fly no more, she ain't going to fly for sure"

I'm feeling your pain. But... that gif seriously made me laugh!

 

[d8veh]

I know what you mean, I keep planting my planes but none of them grow.

You must be doing something wrong. Mine are growing nicely. Maybe it's all the rain we get here. A couple of weeks ago, there was only one FT plane sitting in my hobby room. Now there are five. If I can't find a way to slow down their growth, I'm going to be inundated before long.

 

[Merv]

You must be doing something wrong. Mine are growing nicely. Maybe it's all the rain we get here. A couple of weeks ago, there was only one FT plane sitting in my hobby room. Now there are five. If I can't find a way to slow down their growth, I'm going to be inundated before long.

Try flying a little closer to the ground.

 

[kilroy07]

Try flying a little closer to the ground.

Or faster...

 

[Merv]

Or faster...

Yes that would also help solve your problem of too many planes

 

[Txwarthog]

Here is a little fun for everyone. The indestructible WartHog flyer.

 

[Merv]

Here is a little fun for everyone. The indestructible WartHog flyer.

Making progress.

 

[PoorManRC]

DANG!!!!! QUITE a nose plant.

 

[buzzbomb]

Here is a little fun for everyone. The indestructible WartHog flyer.

Dude, I was wrong. That thing doesn't deserve to be hung on the wall. When you are done with it, it deserves to hung and FRAMED on the wall!

 

[mayan]

@Txwarthog you are doing great progress and eventually will have more successful flights. I like that you are not giving up. I like that you just keep trying and trying. I would have put the plane in the trash after the tail got to that situation but you didn’t you made the best out of you had and turned it into a chuck glider way to go man.

I am looking forward for a longer flight video.

 

[mayan]

Be careful, I must admit that i don't agree with some of what PoorMan RC said. I think that the flitetest B and A motor packs are more than adequate for the planes they're recommended for. In fact I think they're a little too powerful if anything. I'm not sure about the F-pack because I don't have one, but I'm sure that FT chose it wisely.

You can burn just about any ESC with just about any motor if you don't use them correctly.

To answer your question, you need to understand how motors work. In case you don't know this, let me explain. This might sound complicated, but if you take it step by step, it's really simple:

There is no electronic limit for the current in the ESC. A motor has very low resistance, so if you connect it to a 3S battery, a massive current will immediately be pushed through it - enough to burn both the ESC and the motor very quickly. It has one thing that can save it, and that's the back emf (electro motive force). As soon as a motor starts to turn, it generates a voltage ( back emf). The faster it turns, the more voltage it generates. How much voltage is generated is exactly defined by the kV, so a 1000kV motor will generate 1v at 1000 rpm and 12v at 12,000 rpm. That voltage is in the opposite direction to the battery voltage, so the available voltage to the motor is reduced. Let's see what happens when we apply this to the motor I got in my A-pack, which was an Emax 2213 935kv motor with a 3S (say 12v) battery :

At 1000rpm, the battery voltage is 12 v and the motor is making .935v in the opposite direction, so we have approx 11v pushing current through the motor. The resistance of the motor is .18 ohms, so we get 11/.18 amps =61 amps, which is easily enough to burn the motor and ESC.
At 5000 rpm, the motor is making 4.675 v, so we now have 12 -4.675v = 7.3v approx and the current will be 7.3/ .18= 40 amps, which is still enough to burn both.
At 9000rpm we get 8.4v generated leaving 3.6v, which will give 3.6/.18= 20 amps, which is just on the limit for the motor and ESC.

What this means is that the motor must run faster than 9000 rpm to be safe. If you hold it still, have an ESC that can't turn it properly or have too large a propeller on the motor, it won't be running at 9000 or more rpm, so something is going to burn. With the right propeller and the motor running properly, a higher speed will be reached and everybody will be happy.

In practice, there are some other important characteristics that affect it, especially efficiency, which also depends on speed, but the example above should give you a basis for understanding the relationship between speed and current.

I should add one thing. That's all assuming maximum throttle. At anything less, the ESC interrupts the current with high frequency pulses, so there is a sort of current limiting. The lower the throttle, the bigger the limit until it's totally interrupted at zero throttle. that's why it's OK to fly round at low speed with a low throttle.

Finally, when you give full throttle at low speed, the motor accelerates quite quickly to it's maximum rpm. At first, it does draw the very high current, but it doesn't stay there long enough for anything to heat up.

IMHO, your ESC burned because an electronic fault stopped it from turning your propeller at more than 9000 rpm. Bear in mind all the crashes you had. If the plane was on the ground and you still had the throttle on, you would have had 12/.18 = 67 amps going through the ESC, which could easily be enough to damage it, even though it didn't burn.

The numbers for your motor and battery will be different, but the principle is the same.

I read about ESC being able to burn with a prop and battery setup being not right.

So this is the case I have a MT1806 2280kv motor with a 6x4 prop, a 15a ESC and use 1000amps batteries 2S / 3S this seems to work fine. I started using a 3S 1300 amps battery because my 3S 1000amps is damaged which caused the motor to heat up a bit. Would you recommend changing the ESC to something around 20a. I rather be on a safe side from burning my electronics.

 

[d8veh]

Changing the ESC to a higher rating won't stop the motor heating up. It only stops the ESC from heating up. If your motor gets too hot, it means that it's running too slow, so you need a propeller that lets it go faster. Therefore, you need a slightly smaller propeller or one with slightly less pitch. Try one of these or similar:
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbyki...xsWIVNYuShvo4DqtgeMaAuujEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
If you make any changes, please let us know the results.

 

[mayan]

Thanks will do.

 

[basslord1124]

@Txwarthog -I'm with everyone else. Your desire to push and keep trying is truly amazing. Keep it up man! I went from a Hobbyzone Champ to a T28...and I have no idea how many times I nosedived that T28 before I finally got it. Just keep trying and you'll eventually get it. If you have a simulator you might try practicing on it. If not, I would just work on getting your servo travel settings to the lowest recommended setting and practice small movements with the sticks. Overcontrolling is a common issue when starting out.

...and something very important too I want to add. Not sure if you are aware but you are taking this with a very old school approach which will be extremely beneficial to you in the long run. Back in the day, a lot of folks were learning to fly in the same manner that you are. Nowadays with a lot of the modern RC aircraft there are these safety net systems with various flight modes (SAFE for example) that will limit what you can do until you are proficient enough. Kinda like training wheels for new pilots. And sometimes new pilots will rely too heavily on these systems. Not you though, because you don't need any training wheels right? You are doing just fine trying this on your own.

 

[Txwarthog]

Thank you everyone for your support and joining me on this journey. I'm excited to report I've gotten my new plane and we'll build it over the next couple of days. I'm not sure how smart it is to work with different planes and not master one at a time. This decision was mostly because flitetest was out of stock. I got a complete kit so I could also be able to test out components.

 

[buzzbomb]

Dude, the Mustang??!! Oh boy. I am really loving your posts.

 

[Merv]

I'm not sure how smart it is to work with different planes and not master one at a time.

Master one plane at a time has great value. If you want a different plane, I recommend more of a trainer type. War birds are generally built for speed. You just have less time to react than with a slower plane. You might think about keeping the Mustang in the box for now and learn to fly with a slower plane. The Tiny Trainer or Simple Cub would be excellent choices, which would allow you to use your current stuff. Once you master flight move your stuff to the Mustang and go for it. That’s the best part of FT, they are designed to just move you power pod from one plane to the next.

 

[mayan]

Simple Cub is a bit a ahh ahh type of plane and I personally would recommend to use it as a second trainer.