Royal Aircraft Factory S.E.5 My first WW1 aircraft.
- Thread starter unrauv
- Start date
Thank you Thank you. I will have to use that on my next Arrow build.
TooJung2Die
Master member
You need pressure from the iron to attach the film. A heat gun will only shrink it. So you know, when you apply the film to one side of the foam it will curl up like a potato chip. When you apply it to the second side it will flatten out. I had to roll the wing panel over the edge of a table to flatten out the foam because I wanted film on one side only.
BobK was the one that perfected the DT gift wrap covering. Check out his instructions in the Schoolgirl thread. How to use DT gift wrap
BobK was the one that perfected the DT gift wrap covering. Check out his instructions in the Schoolgirl thread. How to use DT gift wrap
KarlBormanAZ
Member
Does anyone still have Vincent's plans for this? His plan link is dead.
TooJung2Die
Master member
You're in luck! Thanks to aerojunkie all of Vincent's plans have been saved. They're in the "Plans" subforum of "The Workbench" under "Help! Save Vincent's plans (Unrau)" on page 2 of the thread.
Direct link: Vincent's Plans
KarlBormanAZ
Member
Thank you Toojung2Die and Aerojunkie. What a great resource!
KarlBormanAZ
Member
Hey TooJung2Die,
Question, do you know what Vincent used for his stringers? I don't see that on the plans anywhere. I know you didn't use them, but I'm not worried about weight and I think I'd like to use them, but I don't see anyone who used them or any info regarding this. Also it looks like Vincent used balsa or hobby ply in other places by looking at some of his pictures, but I don't see that on the plans either. I'm definitely going to build this plan, either to his scale or a little larger, and any tips or pics you could offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
TooJung2Die
Master member
I asked Vincent the same question about his stringers. Never got him to answer. 
He did more designing and building than flying. His designs were over-engineered for strength in my opinion and you can build much lighter by eliminating the fuselage stringers and wood wing spars. The wings on the SE5 I built have no paper on the foam and foam board spars, no wood. The wings are very stiff and strong even with paper removed. I think Vincent's SE5 build was over 30 ounces. The one I made is about 18 ounces with a 1300 mAh 2S battery on board.
This airplane will scale up and fly very well. If I build another I might make one more change. Extend the full airfoil to the end of the wing or at least reduce the amount of undercamber in the plans. The unsupported wing tips are the weakest part of the airplane. Embed bamboo skewers in the wing struts and cabanes for strength. They'll fold right away if you don't.
It continues to be one of the best fliers in my hanger. When I want to show people what you can build and fly using only dollar store foam board this is one of the airplanes I like to show as an example. Even a a fumble thumb pilot like me can take off and land this with ease (despite what the video demonstrated).
He did more designing and building than flying. His designs were over-engineered for strength in my opinion and you can build much lighter by eliminating the fuselage stringers and wood wing spars. The wings on the SE5 I built have no paper on the foam and foam board spars, no wood. The wings are very stiff and strong even with paper removed. I think Vincent's SE5 build was over 30 ounces. The one I made is about 18 ounces with a 1300 mAh 2S battery on board.This airplane will scale up and fly very well. If I build another I might make one more change. Extend the full airfoil to the end of the wing or at least reduce the amount of undercamber in the plans. The unsupported wing tips are the weakest part of the airplane. Embed bamboo skewers in the wing struts and cabanes for strength. They'll fold right away if you don't.
It continues to be one of the best fliers in my hanger. When I want to show people what you can build and fly using only dollar store foam board this is one of the airplanes I like to show as an example. Even a a fumble thumb pilot like me can take off and land this with ease (despite what the video demonstrated).
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KarlBormanAZ
Member
Thanks so much. I may leave the stringers out then too. Looks like he had a ton more formers that most FT builds where the turtledeck is done with poster board. I was planning on doing the wings a bit like the baby blender where they have NO under camber and a piece of poster board to cap the end. I really like the finished look. It also adds strength as you point out. I haven't had too much trouble with builds like that having bad tip stall tendancies. I do like the idea of adding some wood to foam planes where needed however like battery boxes or wing spars, although I must admit, I've done some pretty heavy G maneuvers with all foamboard wings, and never folded one. I have had issues like with the Tigger Twin with single thickness H stabs or V stabs though which I've had to fix with gussets and CF inserts.
I do have a tip I'd like to share that I've found helpful in poster board turtledeck installation that works way better than hot glue. My daughter uses Ad Tech Crafters Tape for making cards. I used that down the whole length of the poster board turtledeck where it overlaps the foam and then still used scotch tape over the top and it holds like a dream but with no bubbles or high spots or gaps. Don't know if you've ever tried that or not.
I do have a tip I'd like to share that I've found helpful in poster board turtledeck installation that works way better than hot glue. My daughter uses Ad Tech Crafters Tape for making cards. I used that down the whole length of the poster board turtledeck where it overlaps the foam and then still used scotch tape over the top and it holds like a dream but with no bubbles or high spots or gaps. Don't know if you've ever tried that or not.
TooJung2Die
Master member
Is that a double sided tape? If it sticks good to foam then I'll have to try it. Good tip.
It can be tricky to get the turtle deck edges stuck down smooth. I use card stock instead of poster board because it bends easier without creasing (lighter too). After gluing down the card stock with hot glue go back over it with a clothes iron heat set just above synthetic fabric. It will melt the hot glue under the card stock and smooth out the seam. It eliminates the bumps and bubbles under the seam. Hot glue will ooze out onto the iron so wipe it off on a paper towel between smoothing passes. You can use a Monokote sealing iron if you have one but I like a clothing iron for this because it has a bigger face. Alcohol cleans off all traces of hot glue after you're done so no will know you used it.
An iron is also good for smoothing out and wiping off excess hot glue after it has hardened. There's a clothing iron and a Monokote iron in my workshop just for model building.
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KarlBormanAZ
Member
Wow, I never thought to use an iron to re-heat/melt the hot glue. How smart! I'll have to try that. I haven't tried using my wife's iron, but I do have a monokote iron I can use.
Yes, the Crafters Tape is a double sided tape, but it is on on roller tool, so you just press the head of the roller down and drag and it adheres to the poster board, then to whatever you stick that to. I was amazed at how well it works. It is so thin, but super strong. I haven't tried it on bare foam, just poster board to the DTFB paper, but if you try it, let me know how it works.
Yes, the Crafters Tape is a double sided tape, but it is on on roller tool, so you just press the head of the roller down and drag and it adheres to the poster board, then to whatever you stick that to. I was amazed at how well it works. It is so thin, but super strong. I haven't tried it on bare foam, just poster board to the DTFB paper, but if you try it, let me know how it works.
KarlBormanAZ
Member
Hey Jon,
I'd be interested in any pictures you have of either your build (that you haven' already posted here), or pictures or videos that you might have from Vincent. I'm sure there was a lot lost when his website went down. To be honest, this will be my first "scratch" build. By that I mean, I have built many FT plans and cut out all the parts from scratch, but I've never built from just a plan without an awesome build video from FT showing you step by step what to do. I'm also very "rulesy" so deviating from the plan is hard for me, although I like many of the ways that you deviated from Vincent's plans.
Anyway, if you don't mind me pestering you, I might just pick your brain along the way. I'm pretty excited as you can tell. I haven't even started the build yet, but I have printed the plans and hope to get started soon.
A couple other questions:
Since you already have this on built, do you think that there is room for a 3S 2200 LiPo. I like my planes a bit on the heavy side and plan to run a Turnigy D2836/9 950KV motor.
How did you link the different struts for the landing gear together?
Thanks Jon.
Karl
I'd be interested in any pictures you have of either your build (that you haven' already posted here), or pictures or videos that you might have from Vincent. I'm sure there was a lot lost when his website went down. To be honest, this will be my first "scratch" build. By that I mean, I have built many FT plans and cut out all the parts from scratch, but I've never built from just a plan without an awesome build video from FT showing you step by step what to do. I'm also very "rulesy" so deviating from the plan is hard for me, although I like many of the ways that you deviated from Vincent's plans.
Anyway, if you don't mind me pestering you, I might just pick your brain along the way. I'm pretty excited as you can tell. I haven't even started the build yet, but I have printed the plans and hope to get started soon.
A couple other questions:
Since you already have this on built, do you think that there is room for a 3S 2200 LiPo. I like my planes a bit on the heavy side and plan to run a Turnigy D2836/9 950KV motor.
How did you link the different struts for the landing gear together?
Thanks Jon.
Karl
TooJung2Die
Master member
I looked at my folder with all the SE5 build photos I took. Everything is posted here in this thread. Everything Vincent had for the SE5 is here too. He didn't add anything to the plans files on his website. I used the usual Flite Test building techniques for the SE5. The biggest deviation was stripping all the paper off the wings foam board and covering it with colored cellophane gift wrap. You'll discover there is more alike in all the different Flite Test airplanes than differences; at least when it comes to putting them together.
I wouldn't copy Vincent's landing gear design. If you read back through the thread one reason he never flew his SE5 is the landing gear was too weak. I like soldered wire landing gear when strength is important. After forming the wire to shape you clean the metal, wrap it with bare copper wire, brush on some flux and solder it with a torch.
Ask anything. I'll try to come up with a helpful answer and there are dozens of other builders here that are quick to lend a hand. And yes, I think this airplane will fly with the battery and motor you plan on using.
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KarlBormanAZ
Member
Thank you Jon. Good to know it will take the bigger motor and battery.
When you say solder with a torch, you are talking plumbing solder like you would use to sweat copper fittings, right? Not like electrical solder.
That is a great idea. I would have never thought of that.
TooJung2Die
Master member
I have used a propane torch like a plumber uses on pipe. Turn the flame way down. Now I have a small butane pencil torch more like a jeweler might use. They're inexpensive and use butane lighter fuel. I don't have any luck with lead free plumbing solder. I use ordinary rosin core lead based solder, the same solder I use for wiring and connectors. Here's the landing gear on the SE5, made from soldered clothes hanger wire.
Attachments
KarlBormanAZ
Member
Thanks! Yes, I saw that picture, but I couldn't figure out from it, what you had used. I usually buy 1/8" diameter steel rod from HD for landing gear on FT models. If I clean it enough and then use your method, it just might work. I do have a small butane torch as well. Good to know that the plumbing solder didn't really work for you.
TooJung2Die
Master member
That's pretty heavy duty landing gear wire, for the airplanes I build anyway. The SE5 is one of my largest airplanes. Another cheap strong wire you'll find at HD is landscape marker flags. For soldering 1/8" rod you'd probably use a full size propane torch.
KarlBormanAZ
Member
Yeah, that is what I use on all my FT models. The Tigger Twin (profile pic) is the standard size. I think a 50"+ wingspan. I haven't had good luck with thinner wire. I'll let you know how it goes when I get to that point in the build. Right now still trying to decide if I want to build it at 100% plan size from Vincent, or go bigger. I'm having trouble printing the plan any bigger, because the plan Vincent did for his PDF, is 35" wide already and the printer I have access to at work only prints 36" wide. I didn't really want to mess with printing out all the single 8 1/2 x 11 sheets and taping them all together.
