Savage Bobber 45" – FT Bushwacker – TH Crack Turbo Beaver

hotwax

Active member
Hi Leonard,

span is 39 inches, chord 5.5 inches. The wings are only 15 mm thick to save drag. I use the overall FT configuration but made some changes inside the wings. There is no Powerpod in my Early Aces Planes.

105_1164.JPG

And yes, this wing can be stalled.

But now back to your build.
 

ProfessorFate

Active member
Hello Werner

I have this glass Storch I just did not finish, stopped because I thought it might be getting heavy, maybe for as much wing as it has, it would not matter 3.9oz foam plug and 9.3oz glass fuse needing tail finished

The 1st plane I built in 1986 was a 72" Olympic 650 with just rudder/ elevator, no motor, so this Storch really grabbed me

Made this one for the beef motor with gws 9x5

Others have commented that the FT Storch is a bit slow, docile, so I made this one intending to use a wing 8"chord x 60"span to make it a bit faster and still floaty, maybe no dihedral too

Glass Storch + foam plug 2.jpg


Leonard


Thank you for the pictures and notes, one of my favorite planes.
 
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adergotardo

Member
"Gaiola" another Savage Bobber Look Like Plane

Hi, I just found this Thread about building a Savage Boober RC plane or something like. I'm on my 10th plane building. But I named it "Gaiola", a portuguese word for "cage". I got a few photos. Camper_Bobber.jpg IMG_2073.jpg IMG_2074.jpg IMG_2083.jpg IMG_2094.jpg IMG_2097.jpg IMG_2098.jpg IMG_2101.jpg IMG_2119.jpg IMG_2144.jpg IMG_2146.jpg IMG_2305.jpg IMG_2315.jpg IMG_2331.jpg IMG_2336 1.jpg
 

ProfessorFate

Active member
Hi been a while and slow building, lost acct pw
Mactek that's a nice airplane looks like it would be fun to fly

While gone I got into rewinding motors and getting more thrust per watt; much better than
that 1170kv Cobra and apc 10x6

New pwr sys idea lower the kv to only what's needed for desired thrust:

3s 11.1v or 12vA123 LIFE batts, gws or apc 12x8 props, lowers rpm,
these planes with landing gear CAN use bigger props
for this power system, as opposed a typical FT Spitfire bellylander

rewind motor improves resistance from a mfr std distributed LRK delta TO a half parallel dLRK wye,
using either an iflight ipower 3508Q or 4008Q at 586kv to 660kv, both mount with std 22mm x-mount

use larger prop greater efficiency and lowering rpms
5336 for 2# 40.4mph and 6468rpm for 3# 49mph ...
got a different motor wound to 729kv hextronic d4023
gives me 54oz for 242 watts instead of
the Cobra test 58oz for 351w at 10,202 rpms!!!

Here's the Cobra 1170kv motor chart, see test with 3s apc 10x6
I think it's valuable to compare and contrast old pwr system to new

Cobra C-2820--10T--1170KV $43.jpg

New idea using 12v and 12x8 props motor tests:
iflight 3508q 4008q n d4023 later tests.jpg

and earlier tests...
iFlight 4008Q, 3508Q  Hex D4023 tests pic.jpg

Developed new diagram sys for rewinding 12n config (stators with 12 heads)
using this sys you can draw diagram without any fancy hard to draw graphics
circles are wound counter clockwise, wind 1st head then goto the number on
the inside of the circle for the next and/or follow the arrow if adjacent like in
the std dlrk winds

Motorz N A Pik 4.jpg
Savage Cub motr n narrow nose 9.jpg

These multirotor motors fit std 22mm x-mounts used with typical
Suppo 2217 A series motors
So I made this nose narrow but to allow either 35mm or 40mm motors

Savage Cub motr n narrow nose 7.jpg
Savage Cub motr n narrow nose 6.jpg
iflight 3058Q 586kv on scale.jpg
3508Q turncalc sheet.png
Manual V from RCGroups Turn Calculator

iflight 3058Q 586kv closer .jpg

These motors have real nice large bearings, easy to wind, great quality,
4mm shafts for Q series, great price too almost same as Suppo 2217

iflight 3058Q 586kv 1st descr pg.png
Savage Cub motr n narrow nose 5.jpg
Costco Baby Stroller Wheels 1oz.jpg

Found 8 really nice wheels from a discarded Cosco baby stroller probably better than
airplane wheels you'ld buy at hobby shop, more durable, only 1oz each


Finally I found some very close matching 3 views, they are the Savage Cub
Savage Cub Classic top-view.jpg
Savage Cub Classic side-view.jpg
Savage Cub Classic front.jpg

handy pie formula for sizing wrx
w size you want
x existing size 3v pic
r rate to increase or decrease by
Area WRX kv change ft mustang 5.jpg



Leonard
 
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ProfessorFate

Active member
Easy Batteries -- People Friendly -- no storage charge issues -- 10,000 cycles?

After learning motor rewinding, testing motors that burned 18 amps plus, drained Lipos and went into early cutoff

So I thought about this and the disadvantages of hi kv motors with small props like a gws 9x5 or apc 10x6, as opposed to, lower kv and larger 12x8 props with more thrust 32 oz pulling 9.2 to 10 amps.

Because I wanted to use a123 LIFE batteries. Only thing is these tough long lasting cells only come in one size, cannot get them in 3.5 amp hour, other bad thing is they are heavy 12.3 oz 12v pack average 2.2 amp hours test starts strong pulling 10a at 12.5 volts dropping down to 11.5 volts they work great on std 3s factory default setting on motor controllers

600 to 650 kv motors with a 12x8 prop lets you cruise or play having steady 32oz thrust for 8 to 10 minutes

This typical pwr set up, 600kv 3508q - 12v LIFE - 40amp MC/5amp BEC, weighs 18oz, probably won't do any 3d hovering, but I'm thinking will do good in a 48" bush plane or a 60" FT Storch ( didn't some people even carry n drop heavier loads of stuff with that plane too? ) 2.5 to 3# thrust max for a plane that could weigh 3 to 3.5#, near 1:1 ratio

a123LIFE & Revolectrix Batts.png

Has anyone found LIFE battery packs for the airplane power system, NOT the other ones I have seen made for transmitter and lo current lo voltage applications?

Later if I feel like buying more Lipo batteries, Jactor from rcgroups has done a lot of testing on these and likes the silver series 427 -- 70C packs, says they equal or exceed their ratings, good, sounds like a really excellent Lipo.

6s 4200.png

Later gonna work with 6s or 24v LIFE larger motors 325 to 350kv apc 15x10 props for 4 to 5# pwr systems


Leonard
 

ProfessorFate

Active member
I've started over building a larger Savage Bobber 36 n 3/8" rudder to prop planning 60" WS better fitting mini or standard servos and the life battery packs. Yesterday I fit the smaller one with motor control battery and weighed 22.2 oz with suppo 9g micro servos.

I don't know how much I trust those micros but have lots of 31g hi-tech mighty mini bb mg 54.6 inch/oz torque at 4.8v and 65.8 oz at 6v, I DO trust these.

The iflight 4008 wound 13 turns of 20ga hpdlrk wye for 921kv fits, current limit 22 amps setup for 12x8 props run on 3s lipo and 12v life 4s.

For anyone wanting to wind 12n14p brushless outrunner moters, I made an improved hpdlrk adjacent coil wind, notice arrows point same direction alternating start-finish-start-finish because the end coils usually get sloppy n fat. This wind allows you might squeeze in one wire size bigger for less resistance more current handling. Delta terminated motors suffer internal conflict, 4 heads pull hard and fast while they also fight 8 slower stator heads because they have twice the inductance. Wye terminated motors are in harmony; at any one time 8 heads in series all pull same speed and strength. See my minimalist diagram, circles wound counter-clockwise, two heads wound per strand, start wind at back of arrow, tip of arrow last. Making this idea work, I wind two odds then go back and wind the even like 1st wind #1 then #3 with another strand, now go back and wind #2 stator head. Makes half the motor very easy winding, and you just stuff that fat end wind between. Odds goto the bundle, evens paired together for the 3 power leads.
20220415_222339.jpg
20220415_222339.jpg
20220610_134109.jpg
20220610_133852.jpg
20220609_184038.jpg
Savage Bobber Pilot side Forbidden Robby cockpit Display 4 sharp.jpg
20220418_073856.jpg
20220610_130142.jpg
2814 iflight 11T 21awg HPy new adj coil 879.6KV 0.9amp 7 g-w crop-1.jpg
12n14p Motor Winds HP adj coil wind wye is the best 2-1.jpg
20220416_161116.jpg
 
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Bo123

Elite member
I've started over building a larger Savage Bobber 36 n 3/8" rudder to prop planning 60" WS better fitting mini or standard servos and the life battery packs. Yesterday I fit the smaller one with motor control battery and weighed 22.2 oz with suppo 9g micro servos.

I don't know how much I trust those micros but have lots of 31g hi-tech mighty mini bb mg 54.6 inch/oz torque at 4.8v and 65.8 oz at 6v, I DO trust these.

The iflight 4008 wound 13 turns of 20ga hpdlrk wye for 921kv fits, current limit 22 amps setup for 12x8 props run on 3s lipo and 12v life 4s.

For anyone wanting to wind 12n14p brushless outrunner moters, I made an improved hpdlrk adjacent coil wind, notice arrows point same direction alternating start-finish-start-finish because the end coils usually get sloppy n fat. This wind allows you might squeeze in one wire size bigger for less resistance more current handling. Delta terminated motors suffer internal conflict, 4 heads pull hard and fast while they also fight 8 slower stator heads because they have twice the inductance. Wye terminated motors are in harmony; at any one time 8 heads in series all pull same speed and strength. See my minimalist diagram, circles wound counter-clockwise, two heads wound per strand, start wind at back of arrow, tip of arrow last. Making this idea work, I wind two odds then go back and wind the even like 1st wind #1 then #3 with another strand, now go back and wind #2 stator head. Makes half the motor very easy winding, and you just stuff that fat end wind between. Odds goto the bundle, evens paired together for the 3 power leads.
View attachment 226855 View attachment 226855 View attachment 226862 View attachment 226863 View attachment 226864 View attachment 226865 View attachment 226866 View attachment 226867 View attachment 226868 View attachment 226869 View attachment 226870
What happened to the old one?
 

ProfessorFate

Active member
Hi Bo, well like you see in the picture I still have it not quite finished, maybe put tail later n build about 48". I put lightest stuff in it, suppo 2217 950kv for 10x6 n lipos 22.2 oz now. Build big one first using hi-tech analog mini servos. Larger build allows larger hardware.

Do most still use analog. Heard digital can draw heavy current. And programmable servos, wow just plug in any slot.

Wood tail always seems biggest hangup, bought ft 300 glue gun going to try building foam planes. Some efforts already show it's faster and easy even with poor glue and 80w gun.

Can we still find/get light ply, Midwest products said they couldn't get materials to make it. Wonder if sig still has it, great for wood power pods etc.

Leonard
 

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Bo123

Elite member
Hi Bo, well like you see in the picture I still have it not quite finished, maybe put tail later n build about 48". I put lightest stuff in it, suppo 2217 950kv for 10x6 n lipos 22.2 oz now. Build big one first using hi-tech analog mini servos. Larger build allows larger hardware. View attachment 226876 View attachment 226875 View attachment 226876 View attachment 226876

Do most still use analog. Heard digital can draw heavy current. And programmable servos, wow just plug in any slot.

Wood tail always seems biggest hangup, bought ft 300 glue gun going to try building foam planes. Some efforts already show it's faster and easy even with poor glue and 80w gun.

Can we still find/get light ply, Midwest products said they couldn't get materials to make it. Wonder if sig still has it, great for wood power pods etc.

Leonard

View attachment 226875
Nice
 

ProfessorFate

Active member
Hi yall
Trying to really get this built, green wire...wish I'd also had a nice red wire from tech fix, no different properties except it's not 200 centigrade wire, would've liked red n green. But try winding a motor hpdlrk terminate wye adjacent coil wind, see you might get one size wire larger. Always makes the wind tough but rewarding. Really want to see how quiet n cool the wye motors run compared to mfrs delta terminated motors.
20220527_213235.jpg
20220528_042114.jpg
3508Q iFlight 822kv 16T 21awg 18A 12v 216w test gws 12x8 prop 50oz 50mph updated16Twind 1.jpg
2814 iflight 11T 21awg HPy new adj coil 879.6KV 0.9amp 7 g-w crop-1.jpg
D4023--728kv and iFlight 3508q--653kv graf 11 for Lucien-1.jpg
VCR motor 22t 763kv.jpg
20220612_165538.jpg
 

Baron VonHelton

Elite member
Hi yall
Trying to really get this built, green wire...wish I'd also had a nice red wire from tech fix, no different properties except it's not 200 centigrade wire, would've liked red n green. But try winding a motor hpdlrk terminate wye adjacent coil wind, see you might get one size wire larger. Always makes the wind tough but rewarding. Really want to see how quiet n cool the wye motors run compared to mfrs delta terminated motors. View attachment 226958 View attachment 226959 View attachment 226960 View attachment 226961 View attachment 226962 View attachment 226963 View attachment 226964

Ok, just because I'm a historian with a 190 IQ does NOT mean I know what yer saying!!

ROFLMAO!!

:LOL::ROFLMAO:
 

ProfessorFate

Active member
Hi
Must've wound motors 6 months before thinking about the circuits. Then, I di and made a chart of which this is part. Series parallel called half parallel with motor winders forums. HP doubles the wire spec for current wye terminated. View attachment 226965 View attachment 226966 View attachment 226967 Manual V and Trug came up with a nice version eliminated some stator crossings. Then I made an improvement distributes skinny n fat winds.
View attachment 226965 View attachment 226966

Well I had to look up Romeo Oscar Foxtrot Lima Mike Alpha Oscar!
 
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Baron VonHelton

Elite member
Hi
Must've wound motors 6 months before thinking about the circuits. Then, I di and made a chart of which this is part. Series parallel called half parallel with motor winders forums. HP doubles the wire spec for current wye terminated. View attachment 226965 View attachment 226966 View attachment 226967 Manual V and Trug came up with a nice version eliminated some stator crossings. Then I made an improvement distributes skinny n fat winds.
View attachment 226965 View attachment 226966

Well I had to look up Romeo Oscar Foxtrot Lima Mike Alpha Oscar!

There's forums on how to manually wind copper motors? I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Very cool.

:unsure:(y):coffee: