Help! Smoke Generator(Powder) for RC electric planes

[cdfigueredo]

Unless the hole is ridiculously large the turbulence will be almost nil. Air tends to pile up in front of an obstacle like that and sort-of forms its own fairing. It seems easy enough to start with a small-ish hole, fly a test flight, and then slowly drill bigger holes until it starts being a problem.

I like your idea, i ws thinking to mix solution 2 and 3 by using a removable cap that will be used to refill the powder compartment. the can print caps with different diametre holes and test them.

Also i can start testing solution 2 ad then replace it with a cap with a hole on it.

 

[Apis]

Problem: current rc plane smoke systems are expensive, heavy, and designed for bigger craft than the 1-2 meter birds we fly.

The solution being explored here is too switch to a powder system to make a lighter and cheaper solution compared to the complicated, heavy, and expensive pump and mineral oil electric systems like the smoke-el system (http://www.smoke-systems.com/smoke-el---s-.html)

Have you (OP) considered instead of developing a new kind of smoke system (powder, which is a really cool idea!), to instead explore how to miniaturize and cheapen the current mineral based system?

One approach could be to adapt current vaping pen heating elements like in this video:

Just throwing this out there to spur ideas as a light weight smoking system for our 1-2 meter foam board planes is desperately needed.

 

[Matthewdupreez]

I like your idea, i ws thinking to mix solution 2 and 3 by using a removable cap that will be used to refill the powder compartment. the can print caps with different diametre holes and test them.

View attachment 232727
Also i can start testing solution 2 ad then replace it with a cap with a hole on it.

hey man could you please send me your latest stl files for this, my printer is up and running and i want to print one to try it out'

 

[Apis]

https://www.instructables.com/Battery-Powered-Fog-Machine/

Maybe a cutdown version of the above link. (Remove unnecessary housing and button and electric,....... Is the fan needed during forward flight???) Instead of a 10 mL tank, make it more like 100 mL and run it at the max 80 watts

 

[cdfigueredo]

hey man could you please send me your latest stl files for this, my printer is up and running and i want to print one to try it out'

I need to take a look at the current status of the project couse i made lot of changes trying to find a better solution, so now i need to find a good stable version of the STLs

 

[cdfigueredo]

https://www.instructables.com/Battery-Powered-Fog-Machine/

Maybe a cutdown version of the above link. (Remove unnecessary housing and button and electric,....... Is the fan needed during forward flight???) Instead of a 10 mL tank, make it more like 100 mL and run it at the max 80 watts

The idea is not bad at all but whai i see there is that the volume of smoke may be not enough to become visible during flight.

 

[Apis]

The idea is not bad at all but whai i see there is that the volume of smoke may be not enough to become visible during flight.

https://vosentech.com/index.php/product/microfogger-3-lite/

This company makes one that is also basically vape-tech turned into a fogger and that looks to be enough smoke.

 

[cdfigueredo]

https://vosentech.com/index.php/product/microfogger-3-lite/

This company makes one that is also basically vape-tech turned into a fogger and that looks to be enough smoke.

Take a look here (minute 2:00):

but it looks like it wont be enough, taking into conideration he is runing it at full power and indoor.

 

[Apis]

Not produced anymore but closer to what I'm thinking. I would still like something a bit smaller, running on 3 or 4S.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2019485-MrRCSound-Smoke-System

 

[cdfigueredo]

Not produced anymore but closer to what I'm thinking. I would still like something a bit smaller, running on 3 or 4S.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2019485-MrRCSound-Smoke-System

I had already seen this option with aterniority, but the truth is that the price is quite high and added to that the need to use 6 cell packs make it really a NO for me and for sure for many.

The reason for using powder for a smoke system is based on the fact that it is relatively cheap and easy to refill on the ground after a successful flight. Also the 3D prototype is only because it speeds up the construction process and is more accurate. But once we have a working prototype, it should be easily replicable in other cheaper and more affordable materials, even foamboard or plastic bottles.
But I'm glad that people are still interested in this thread, even though I've given up on it a bit. I think if we can all come up with something that works, it will be of great interest to the community. Not for nothing the FT guys dedicated one of their videos to test this idea. That means a lot and shows the importance of this project and how much fun it would be to add smoke to our cheap models.

 

[Apis]

I had already seen this option with aterniority, but the truth is that the price is quite high and added to that the need to use 6 cell packs make it really a NO for me and for sure for many.

The reason for using powder for a smoke system is based on the fact that it is relatively cheap and easy to refill on the ground after a successful flight. Also the 3D prototype is only because it speeds up the construction process and is more accurate. But once we have a working prototype, it should be easily replicable in other cheaper and more affordable materials, even foamboard or plastic bottles.
But I'm glad that people are still interested in this thread, even though I've given up on it a bit. I think if we can all come up with something that works, it will be of great interest to the community. Not for nothing the FT guys dedicated one of their videos to test this idea. That means a lot and shows the importance of this project and how much fun it would be to add smoke to our cheap models.

There are commercial devices that release powders. Maybe the key to making this work is to study how they work? There must be some bits of knowledge in the form factors of those devices, even ones that use entirely different methods of deployment, that could help you with your design.

 

[chickenhawk]

So this is my version of the problem of powder packing and not flowing. This is number 3 ( see pop can for size) for a 88 inch wing span Pawnee. I have a 1/2 size for ( Eflite Air Tractor) and a 1/4 size for ( foam board Pawnee) . The silver things are cell phone/pager vibrators ( 3 volt) they are Shoe Goo only at the tees to allow to vibrate freely. Each side is powered by 2 --3 volt watch batteries. Now I'm not saying it makes great clouds of smoke but it does make a nice vapor trail. I believe its a air intake problem. With the weather at -27 and snow blocking my shed I could not drag my small planes to show how they work ( was going to use my wife's hair dryer). At the field you must turn it on early as you start your pass. It took me a bit to figure out just how much powder to put in ( too much and it wont work.

 

[cdfigueredo]

So this is my version of the problem of powder packing and not flowing. This is number 3 ( see pop can for size) for a 88 inch wing span Pawnee. I have a 1/2 size for ( Eflite Air Tractor) and a 1/4 size for ( foam board Pawnee) . The silver things are cell phone/pager vibrators ( 3 volt) they are Shoe Goo only at the tees to allow to vibrate freely. Each side is powered by 2 --3 volt watch batteries. Now I'm not saying it makes great clouds of smoke but it does make a nice vapor trail. I believe its a air intake problem. With the weather at -27 and snow blocking my shed I could not drag my small planes to show how they work ( was going to use my wife's hair dryer). At the field you must turn it on early as you start your pass. It took me a bit to figure out just how much powder to put in ( too much and it wont work.

Wow, that's great, I'd love to see a video in action.
I've really always had two concerns about the powder:
1- the compaction, if it compacts too much it will become difficult to pull through the incoming airflow. Here I don't know if the vibration will help or cause the opposite effect (considering that vibration is traditionally used to compact).
2- humidity, I think this is worse than the previous one, if the powder gets wet it could easily block the exit or even accelerate the compaction. I think that really the time that the powder will be inside the device during the flight will not be enough for it to get too wet, but you have to take care of the packaging where it is stored.

 

[Inq]

I have to ask the stupid question... can fireworks smoke balls be used? A quick Internet search got me - https://fireworks.com/products/ground-non-aerial/smoke-items. I now see the big FAD of "gender reveal" smoke. I'd imagine a Coke can could be fashioned as a chamber to keep the heat away from the foamboard and it could even use a Este's rocket type igniter to be triggered by the RC. Is it allowed or is it an FAA or AMA thing?

 

[cdfigueredo]

So this is my version of the problem of powder packing and not flowing. This is number 3 ( see pop can for size) for a 88 inch wing span Pawnee. I have a 1/2 size for ( Eflite Air Tractor) and a 1/4 size for ( foam board Pawnee) . The silver things are cell phone/pager vibrators ( 3 volt) they are Shoe Goo only at the tees to allow to vibrate freely. Each side is powered by 2 --3 volt watch batteries. Now I'm not saying it makes great clouds of smoke but it does make a nice vapor trail. I believe its a air intake problem. With the weather at -27 and snow blocking my shed I could not drag my small planes to show how they work ( was going to use my wife's hair dryer). At the field you must turn it on early as you start your pass. It took me a bit to figure out just how much powder to put in ( too much and it wont work.

Taking the idea of adding external components (like the vibrators you used), I was thinking of something like this.

The concept would basically be a small fan that sucks in air from outside and pushes it into the system mixing it with the powder and expelling it. This small motor could be controlled by a small brushed ESC going to a channel on the RX to vary the amount of air going into the system. The only disadvantage I see is that besides the extra battery consumption and weight, I don't know how to prevent the powder from escaping through the fan when it is stopped and the plane is climbing.

Just another idea

 

[cdfigueredo]

I have to ask the stupid question... can fireworks smoke balls be used? A quick Internet search got me - https://fireworks.com/products/ground-non-aerial/smoke-items. I now see the big FAD of "gender reveal" smoke. I'd imagine a Coke can could be fashioned as a chamber to keep the heat away from the foamboard and it could even use a Este's rocket type igniter to be triggered by the RC. Is it allowed or is it an FAA or AMA thing?

This is the most common and cheapest way to add smoke to RC airplanes, but it has some disadvantages. The most important one is the temperature (it gets really hot), some airplanes, especially the foam ones don't do well with high temperatures. And the second is that you can't control when to turn the smoke on or off, or how much you want to produce.

But of course, it also has advantages: The volume of smoke is very abundant and you can also choose the color, which is a big plus.

 

[cdfigueredo]

Taking the idea of adding external components (like the vibrators you used), I was thinking of something like this.
View attachment 235284
The concept would basically be a small fan that sucks in air from outside and pushes it into the system mixing it with the powder and expelling it. This small motor could be controlled by a small brushed ESC going to a channel on the RX to vary the amount of air going into the system. The only disadvantage I see is that besides the extra battery consumption and weight, I don't know how to prevent the powder from escaping through the fan when it is stopped and the plane is climbing.

Just another idea

This assited system will bring the feature of having smoke even if the plane is flying really slow.

 

[chickenhawk]

Wow, that's great, I'd love to see a video in action.
I've really always had two concerns about the powder:
1- the compaction, if it compacts too much it will become difficult to pull through the incoming airflow. Here I don't know if the vibration will help or cause the opposite effect (considering that vibration is traditionally used to compact).
2- humidity, I think this is worse than the previous one, if the powder gets wet it could easily block the exit or even accelerate the compaction. I think that really the time that the powder will be inside the device during the flight will not be enough for it to get too wet, but you have to take care of the packaging where it is stored.

Thats where it is important to get the right amount of powder, too much and there is not enuf vibration to make it move, too little and it goes away too fast to leave a trail. It does take some testing to get the right amount. That being said DO NOT-DO NOT test with the back removed ( wanted to see how the powder moved around) on your wifes kitchen table with her hair dryer.

 

[cdfigueredo]

Thats where it is important to get the right amount of powder, too much and there is not enuf vibration to make it move, too little and it goes away too fast to leave a trail. It does take some testing to get the right amount. That being said DO NOT-DO NOT test with the back removed ( wanted to see how the powder moved around) on your wifes kitchen table with her hair dryer.

LOL

 

[cdfigueredo]

I was also thinking on something like the previous post but using only the wind to mix the powder

Of course, some kind of mechanism is needed in order to keep the powder inside the main compartment. Also with this design there is no need to extend this mechanism to the air intakes because the flow will prevent the powder to scape.