Solution For FT to Turning Noah back to Full Nelson

[L Edge]

Flite Test: Josh, try this if you like, any questions, PM or call.

It will be real easy to modify Noah back to Nelson. All it takes is to modify your present power setup and install 2 servos/same motors/props and Noah becomes a full rotating Nelson and if you play your cards right, should be able to stand up, takeoff and fly around and if a good pilot is available, perhaps land vertical(with a gyro in head holding mode or a FC onboard).

Concept is based on using differential thrust as yaw and controls are based on elevons. You mount a servo to the present mount so when the servos move, the moving arms will either rotate below the wing or above. Voilah!!!, you now have a set of elevons and with DT, you can now do a full Nelson(roll him 360 degrees).

Here is a position of a roll so to make a climb both move up.

If you decide Nelson needs to make a landing horizontal, you take off vertical( shave the sole so he can stand up and you may have to move the battery for balance) so you set up a landing mode(if the prop doesn't clear the ground) by offsetting the sub trim to a full up position when you are flaring. Since Nelson has wing controls, add that to the front controls so 2 sets of elevons will make quicker and snappier rolls.


I designed 2 planes when their was no other non existent type planes 12 years ago where the controls are up in the front and there are no moving surface controls.


Maiden takeoff and landing with new designed controls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D8fZ5sLndA

VTOL maiden takeoff and landing many moons ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3xlV12Oj_E

Josh, your's to use.

 

[Mr Man]

Instead of shaving the soles, they could also add some clear plastic to make it balance to keep the look.

 

[LitterBug]

In theory, the FT Aura 5 is capable of doing hover/catch by using a high alpha autoleveling mode. Flex Innovations has used this with their new "FP" series of planes. The only question is if the control surfaces have enough authority to do high alpha....

 

[Piotrsko]

My experiences like L EDGE: typical control surfaces just don't have enough force at less than flight speeds, you almost have to have directional thrust, or super large movements. How well does your rudder turn the plane at walking taxi speeds? Steerable gear included, can you do a U turn in the plane's length?

 

[L Edge]

The control surfaces have a super abundance of authority to do high alpha. Remember, I said I hooked up 2 sets of same elevons. The first set is on the wings(I use that as a trim) and the second is the deflection of both props near the top of Nelson. Nelson has a large mass and to change direction and when you deflect the prop(only need small angles) it becomes a vector analysis setup. The reason you use the wing change as a trim is deep deflections of both elevons would snap Nelson in half. How about a flat spin upwards when you add DT and controlled up elevator?

My dual elevons model (one fixed prop) is modifying SPONZ'S Wonder so it can hover. Ending up putting endplates slowed down rolls and pitch, so set up dual elevons. Added an "UDDER RUDDER" I designed and now having control of of all 3 axis, can now hover. It is sort of like a dual canard.

That's why I design stuff that doesn't exist. This is a different approach that no one else has and solves the problem.. That's why I offer it to Josh. Or send me a model and I'll refine it for your production. I even have faith that it could do a knife edge if enough power and right pitch prop is available to the motors.


Here is how I set it up for dual elevators.

*Unofficial * Readi-board Wonder ("Double Deuces")

After having good luck using Readi-board to build 3 planes, decided to see if a SPONZ "wonder" could be adapted and fly as well as his. Redi-board is 30" x 20". So using my last version of Wonder that can slow fly, hover, and handle high gusty winds, decided to make one that uses 1 1/4...

forum.flitetest.com

It is sorta like flying Horizon's X-Vert in vertical mode.

 

[L Edge]

Instead of shaving the soles, they could also add some clear plastic to make it balance to keep the look.

Yes, could do that, but that's only statically. To balance dynamically, you need a sum of vertically forces to equal zero.(especially for VTOL planes). By moving the battery, you can achieve the moment sum and force sum equal to zero so it doesn't wobble or move off course.

 

[L Edge]

Here is a sample of DT for yaw. roll, pitch, and speed. Again, no surface controls. So he could lift off, spin around and look at the crowd it would be interesting if he could wear a cape.
Notice very little servo motion. It can do some very tight loops as it flies.

 

[LitterBug]

maybe attach the motors directly to the control surfaces..... 🤔

 

[Mr Man]

Yes, could do that, but that's only statically. To balance dynamically, you need a sum of vertically forces to equal zero.(especially for VTOL planes). By moving the battery, you can achieve the moment sum and force sum equal to zero so it doesn't wobble or move off course.

I just meant that way they didn’t have to hold it for it to stand 😂

 

[L Edge]

I just meant that way they didn’t have to hold it for it to stand 😂

That could work when there is no wind, but when there is, you have 2 choices if possible.
1) you set up a slight nose down trim to counteract the low wind and after the person places him, add trim say 5 or 10 degrees down(motors idle and you adjust) so prop thrust keeps him upright and then take off. Did that for my VTOL setup.
2) Turn Nelson sideways so wind is off from face 90 degrees and then launch if you have low winds. Same for landing.

 

[Piotrsko]

I presume hanging motors on control surfaces means really big and very light, super dangly landing gear. So not much crosswind stops VTO. Nelson seems rather optimal, figure it is a matter of time before he gets to knife edge.

 

[L Edge]

I presume hanging motors on control surfaces means really big and very light, super dangly landing gear. So not much crosswind stops VTO. Nelson seems rather optimal, figure it is a matter of time before he gets to knife edge.

Who needs landing gear. Install 2 wheels(like FT A-10) in Nelson's chest sticking out partially below the Flight Test sign and 2 in toes(strengthen legs) and now you don't have to catch him with my config. You tilt engines up on landing so feet first and then flare to lower chest to land.

 

[Mr Man]

Bellyflop! 😆

 

[Piotrsko]

Hmm last planes I have that has wheels is either the .049 PT19 control line trainer I bought for my son 30 years ago, or the divorce sale high wing from the same era.
Who needs wheels? Some of the places I fly you toss and catch or you don't fly at all

 

[L Edge]

Hmm last planes I have that has wheels is either the .049 PT19 control line trainer I bought for my son 30 years ago, or the divorce sale high wing from the same era.
Who needs wheels? Some of the places I fly you toss and catch or you don't fly at all

Point I was trying to bring out was for safety with landing gear. In this case, if you get wacked with one or more turning props trying to catch, problems could develop.

 

[Piotrsko]

Thanks for the concerned warning, but, I fly until motor cutoff so generally the prop(s) ain't spinning. If they are spinning it is either flying or very soon to impact the ground at high speed. Other half of my stuff flying doesn't have a motor. The dangerous point for me would be first flight on a new plane until trimmed hands off and I was standing in front of it while it was on the ground. Recall also my tale of milling a piece of oak moulding for ten foot with a supposedly fragile prop.

 

[L Edge]

Thanks for the concerned warning, but, I fly until motor cutoff so generally the prop(s) ain't spinning. If they are spinning it is either flying or very soon to impact the ground at high speed. Other half of my stuff flying doesn't have a motor. The dangerous point for me would be first flight on a new plane until trimmed hands off and I was standing in front of it while it was on the ground. Recall also my tale of milling a piece of oak moulding for ten foot with a supposedly fragile prop.

Worst I ever saw was John Gorham video catching a heli(Cricket) with the blades whirring around by the landing gear. He was trying to show how stable it was.

 

[Piotrsko]

I dunno, your video of son fiddling with the fuel needle of a flying helio put the janky creeps in me. Still does just thinking about it right now