Spektrum AR410 Help

dingram00

New member
I think I have a faulty Spektrum AR410 receiver, but I have no idea how to draw the final conclusion. After 56 flights, my spitfire SBK finally took a dirt nap and I believe it was because of the AR410. A little context, I was getting ready for a few evening flights and after plugging in the battery, the receiver never powered up, so I took the power pod out to start the investigation and found the receiver was no longer bound to my transmitter, which was the first time this has ever happened. So after binding again, I did a range test and did not have an issue so I put the pod back in and put her in the air. 2 min into the flight I lost connection and the rest is history. After recovering the wreckage I started a very methodical investigation into what caused this, and right now I am stumped as I have not found anything abnormal and I can not get my electronics to recreate this lost connection. I cycled power dozens of times, ran 3 batteries with WOT and randomly moving the sticks around the full 4 min that a normal flight would be, and still nothing to indicate a faulty component. So I came here to ask for help.
What are the proper testing procedures for a receiver?
Has anyone else had this problem with a AR410?
If I still can't find a problem, should I trust the receiver in another plane?
Thanks for any input.
Regards,
 

JasonK

Participation Award Recipient
What was the voltage on the battery when you checking it right after the flight?
What TX are you using? would it have reported a loose of signal?
Was there power to the receiver when you got to the wreck?
Have you tried wiggling the cable from the receiver to the ESC/BEC?

Nothing in your list of tests indicates something strong that would say for sure the issue was the receiver. If you can't reproduce the problem on the ground after disconnecting/reconnecting all the wires (from your troubleshooting), it makes me wonder if you might have had a loose/damaged wire, possibly between the ESC/BEC and the receiver or other.
 

Flyingshark

Master member
I think I have a faulty Spektrum AR410 receiver, but I have no idea how to draw the final conclusion. After 56 flights, my spitfire SBK finally took a dirt nap and I believe it was because of the AR410. A little context, I was getting ready for a few evening flights and after plugging in the battery, the receiver never powered up, so I took the power pod out to start the investigation and found the receiver was no longer bound to my transmitter, which was the first time this has ever happened. So after binding again, I did a range test and did not have an issue so I put the pod back in and put her in the air. 2 min into the flight I lost connection and the rest is history. After recovering the wreckage I started a very methodical investigation into what caused this, and right now I am stumped as I have not found anything abnormal and I can not get my electronics to recreate this lost connection. I cycled power dozens of times, ran 3 batteries with WOT and randomly moving the sticks around the full 4 min that a normal flight would be, and still nothing to indicate a faulty component. So I came here to ask for help.
What are the proper testing procedures for a receiver?
Has anyone else had this problem with a AR410?
If I still can't find a problem, should I trust the receiver in another plane?
Thanks for any input.
Regards,
It does sound like you could have a faulty wire somewhere, as @JasonK said. I think the "not bound" problem could be a symptom of failsafeing/brownout, unless the transmitter specifically told you it wasn't bound.

I'm curious, how far away did you do the range test, and for how long? And what is your transmitter?
 

dingram00

New member
What was the voltage on the battery when you checking it right after the flight?
What TX are you using? would it have reported a loose of signal?
Was there power to the receiver when you got to the wreck?
Have you tried wiggling the cable from the receiver to the ESC/BEC?

Nothing in your list of tests indicates something strong that would say for sure the issue was the receiver. If you can't reproduce the problem on the ground after disconnecting/reconnecting all the wires (from your troubleshooting), it makes me wonder if you might have had a loose/damaged wire, possibly between the ESC/BEC and the receiver or other.

The battery (Spektrum 3S 2200) voltage was 11.83
TX is a DX6i and I don't know if it has the capability of reporting a lose of signal
The battery was disconnected upon recovery
I did wiggle all cables and confirmed the connections were solid

Thanks for the suggestions.

To add more context, the electronics are all brand new and only been used for this Spitfire SBK. There is no indication of a loose/damaged wire anywhere.
 

dingram00

New member
It does sound like you could have a faulty wire somewhere, as @JasonK said. I think the "not bound" problem could be a symptom of failsafeing/brownout, unless the transmitter specifically told you it wasn't bound.

I'm curious, how far away did you do the range test, and for how long? And what is your transmitter?

What is failsafeing/brownout?

I did the standard range test at 30ft, and then positioned the power pod and servo's in a safe position without propeller and went about 100ft away and ran motor WOT while constantly moving the sticks for 4min, which is a normal flight time. I did this 3 times and could not recreate the issue.
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Similar problems have appeared at a local club here across a number of different receiver models and installations. I am unsure where you were flying but the location here is suburban in a public park of considerable size.
The issue seems to be related to available radio channels. With the location a lot of spectral congestion is apparent with microwave ovens and almost everyone in the surrounding area having WiFi equipment and of course video streaming subscriptions.
Whilst the congestion is normally tolerable there are times of the day where the radio channel availability is low and on these occasions if a large number of RC models are attempted to be flown problems raise their ugly head.
Actually the available channels can be such that the radio control users can be playing musical chairs with the available channels and if a small decrease in channel availability is experienced someone MUST bite the dust.

The 2.4GHz radios must comply with FCC part 15C to be certified for use and this means that the radio system must not cause interference and must accept all interference it receives. In order to not generate any interference each radio system MUST NOT transmit over any other radio transmission. This means the radio transmitter must have collision avoidance, (radio transmission collision that is). With the Collision avoidance it is possible, if the channels are all in use, for the transmitter to be unable to transmit. This leads to a loss of receiver association/communication and of course crashes often result.

Additionally if there are no clear radio channels when you turn on your transmitter then of course it will again not transmit and this can be seen as having lost its bind even though it may not have. In the time it takes to rebind the receiver often the congestion of the radio spectrum may have decreased and then everything works as normal.
It is something that normally happens in a built up area and where many radio users turn on their transmitter on arrival at the field and then leave their transmitters powered up even when not flying. I call them a lot of things but they are just polluting the radio spectrum and causing an increased risk of causing a model loss or crash.

After all of the above it is actually common to apparently have a receiver appear to lose its bind and then crash soon after being rebound simply due to the minimal number of available radio channels. If my students or I have a similar problem we just unplug the battery, turn off the transmitter and have a coffee. We try again in about ten minutes and so far very few such loss of bind problems were actually due to loss of bind, but sadly there are still a few such occurrences that we are still investigating and they seem to be related to voltage spikes from a poorly filtered BEC output, (A filter capacitor seems to alleviate the issue. Just remember filter capacitors degrade in value and effectiveness over time with heat accelerating the degradation.

Keep after it and you should solve the issue eventually.

Have fun!
 

Flyingshark

Master member
What is failsafeing/brownout?

I did the standard range test at 30ft, and then positioned the power pod and servo's in a safe position without propeller and went about 100ft away and ran motor WOT while constantly moving the sticks for 4min, which is a normal flight time. I did this 3 times and could not recreate the issue.
"Failsafing" is what the receiver does when it stops receiving a signal from the transmitter. It moves the control surfaces to a preset position, and waits to regain the signal. Before that happens, the plane might collide with an obstacle, though. Usually the default is to neutralize the controls and cut the motor, but you can custom-configure the failsafe to do something else. The manual for your receiver should tell you how to do that.

A "brownout" is when the receiver loses power. This can happen if the servos are drawing a lot of power, more than the BEC can supply at any one moment. (The BEC is a little thing that allows you to run the entire plane off of one battery, instead of using one for the motor and one for everything else. Lots of ESCs come with an integrated BEC.) The servos can draw a lot of power if they need to work hard, like when moving quickly and/or pushing hard against airflow. Unfortunately, I don't know of an easy way to simulate that situation on the ground.

Based on what other people have said, it sounds like these things are not the problem you're having.
 

dingram00

New member
Similar problems have appeared at a local club here across a number of different receiver models and installations. I am unsure where you were flying but the location here is suburban in a public park of considerable size.
The issue seems to be related to available radio channels. With the location a lot of spectral congestion is apparent with microwave ovens and almost everyone in the surrounding area having WiFi equipment and of course video streaming subscriptions.
Whilst the congestion is normally tolerable there are times of the day where the radio channel availability is low and on these occasions if a large number of RC models are attempted to be flown problems raise their ugly head.
Actually the available channels can be such that the radio control users can be playing musical chairs with the available channels and if a small decrease in channel availability is experienced someone MUST bite the dust.

The 2.4GHz radios must comply with FCC part 15C to be certified for use and this means that the radio system must not cause interference and must accept all interference it receives. In order to not generate any interference each radio system MUST NOT transmit over any other radio transmission. This means the radio transmitter must have collision avoidance, (radio transmission collision that is). With the Collision avoidance it is possible, if the channels are all in use, for the transmitter to be unable to transmit. This leads to a loss of receiver association/communication and of course crashes often result.

Additionally if there are no clear radio channels when you turn on your transmitter then of course it will again not transmit and this can be seen as having lost its bind even though it may not have. In the time it takes to rebind the receiver often the congestion of the radio spectrum may have decreased and then everything works as normal.
It is something that normally happens in a built up area and where many radio users turn on their transmitter on arrival at the field and then leave their transmitters powered up even when not flying. I call them a lot of things but they are just polluting the radio spectrum and causing an increased risk of causing a model loss or crash.

After all of the above it is actually common to apparently have a receiver appear to lose its bind and then crash soon after being rebound simply due to the minimal number of available radio channels. If my students or I have a similar problem we just unplug the battery, turn off the transmitter and have a coffee. We try again in about ten minutes and so far very few such loss of bind problems were actually due to loss of bind, but sadly there are still a few such occurrences that we are still investigating and they seem to be related to voltage spikes from a poorly filtered BEC output, (A filter capacitor seems to alleviate the issue. Just remember filter capacitors degrade in value and effectiveness over time with heat accelerating the degradation.

Keep after it and you should solve the issue eventually.

Have fun!

I am in the middle of nowhere in east central Indiana. I also have 3 other models that I fly as often as I can and have never had this happen. I don't believe signal interference is the issue but I do appreciate you taking your time to respond.
 

dingram00

New member
"Failsafing" is what the receiver does when it stops receiving a signal from the transmitter. It moves the control surfaces to a preset position, and waits to regain the signal. Before that happens, the plane might collide with an obstacle, though. Usually the default is to neutralize the controls and cut the motor, but you can custom-configure the failsafe to do something else. The manual for your receiver should tell you how to do that.

A "brownout" is when the receiver loses power. This can happen if the servos are drawing a lot of power, more than the BEC can supply at any one moment. (The BEC is a little thing that allows you to run the entire plane off of one battery, instead of using one for the motor and one for everything else. Lots of ESCs come with an integrated BEC.) The servos can draw a lot of power if they need to work hard, like when moving quickly and/or pushing hard against airflow. Unfortunately, I don't know of an easy way to simulate that situation on the ground.

Based on what other people have said, it sounds like these things are not the problem you're having.

I do remember reading about failsafing now that you mentioned it. As far as the brownout thing, I guess anything is possible. At this point I still can't recreate the issue. I think I will just build another and see what happens. Thanks for the info.