Basic stixs
Junior Member
Chad what if you added batteries to both sides of the box... This may help with the roll issue.
The Flying Box - DEVELOPMENT
- Thread starter StoneKap
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- box development flying box plane
Dirty_Cajun
Junior Member
With the current configuration you are going to have to install rudder rudder to turn with primarily . another option is to put your
engine further out and suspend your battery off of the edges of the box to make it more roll friendly. that should give you the roll. another idea is to make a wing from a clear piece of plastic. it will put your aileron inputs out far enough away from the center of the body as well as be fairly invisible in the air.
engine further out and suspend your battery off of the edges of the box to make it more roll friendly. that should give you the roll. another idea is to make a wing from a clear piece of plastic. it will put your aileron inputs out far enough away from the center of the body as well as be fairly invisible in the air.
If you get it flying as a cube, you absolutely have to decal it as a "Borg Cube". I think I would try the motor and prop in the back in a pusher format with servo's on it to vector the thrust or possibly a puller in front and a vectored pusher in the rear. Move the cross bracing to the front (no movable surfaces).
Thurmond
Thurmond
Hi Chad, I think if you even out the CG to get it to the height of your motor you'll make it very hard to fly.
I would suggest keeping the CG low and the elevons like you have them on the video. To increase maneuverability you should add rudderons: Split the vertical thing you have in there up and add separate rudder on top and bottom. Then mix aileron on these so you will have all 4 parts acting as ailerons, 2 as elevator and 2 as rudder.
This way you will keep the stability due to the low CG (so practically have a high wing plane design), have increased roll authority and additionally get yaw control.
Will be interesting to see how your little experiment ends up!
I would suggest keeping the CG low and the elevons like you have them on the video. To increase maneuverability you should add rudderons: Split the vertical thing you have in there up and add separate rudder on top and bottom. Then mix aileron on these so you will have all 4 parts acting as ailerons, 2 as elevator and 2 as rudder.
This way you will keep the stability due to the low CG (so practically have a high wing plane design), have increased roll authority and additionally get yaw control.
Will be interesting to see how your little experiment ends up!
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The flying box thing has been done quite successfully -- see:
The Voltair Tech Cube was sold as a kit about 10 years ago. It's made of nylon with a carbon fiber frame, and uses only vectored thrust (no control surfaces).
The shape of the box is slightly asymmetrical for aerodynamic reasons (of which I am unclear).
The Cube was reviewed on RCGroups in 2003...http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210475
I have one of these kits NIB that I've been meaning to build!
The Voltair Tech Cube was sold as a kit about 10 years ago. It's made of nylon with a carbon fiber frame, and uses only vectored thrust (no control surfaces).
The shape of the box is slightly asymmetrical for aerodynamic reasons (of which I am unclear).
The Cube was reviewed on RCGroups in 2003...http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210475
I have one of these kits NIB that I've been meaning to build!
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Non Action Man
Nose Landing Specialist
Lying awake in bed last night, I had a think about this project, mainly to do with keeping the VTOL aspect. I thought about Tom O'Connells idea for moving a weight side to side, making it bank. But I thought about using this to move the CG forwad and back to change from VTOL to forward flight mode. Please excuse the simplicity of theis drawing, I'm away at the moment, and only have a laptop with MSpaint and a track pad...
So basically, on the centre line right behind the motor, you have a servo with parrallel arms going to a battery tray. In forward flight mode, the battery is moved to the edge of the box, creating a forward and low CG.
Then the battery is moved back and to the centre line for VTOL. The CG is then more in line with the centre line and moved back, making it more stable for prop hang.
You would need to have a gyro on the aileron channel of your elevons though, otherwise you'd have all sorts of torque roll going on!
The transition from VTOL to Forward flight might need to take 3~5 seconds (just a guess) but it would be interesting to see what would happen if you put it on the landing gear channel and just switched it! But if you had it on like a pitch trim channel, then you could tweak the CG dynamically during flight, as well as make the trasition more smooth.
Some tweaking of the servo endstops would need to be done to keep it within limits.
Couple this with an added rudder, and I think you'll be well on your way.
NAM
P.S. Yes I think its disturbing too that I was thinking about Chad in the middle of the night.....
So basically, on the centre line right behind the motor, you have a servo with parrallel arms going to a battery tray. In forward flight mode, the battery is moved to the edge of the box, creating a forward and low CG.
Then the battery is moved back and to the centre line for VTOL. The CG is then more in line with the centre line and moved back, making it more stable for prop hang.
You would need to have a gyro on the aileron channel of your elevons though, otherwise you'd have all sorts of torque roll going on!
The transition from VTOL to Forward flight might need to take 3~5 seconds (just a guess) but it would be interesting to see what would happen if you put it on the landing gear channel and just switched it! But if you had it on like a pitch trim channel, then you could tweak the CG dynamically during flight, as well as make the trasition more smooth.
Some tweaking of the servo endstops would need to be done to keep it within limits.
Couple this with an added rudder, and I think you'll be well on your way.
NAM
P.S. Yes I think its disturbing too that I was thinking about Chad in the middle of the night.....
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No prob, man! MS Paint is the best graphics software ever!
http://randomnocity.webs.com/Ms%20paint%20vs%20hand%20drawn%20hd%20copy.jpg
(Image was a bit big and off topic)
ananas1301
Crazy flyer/crasher :D
Lying awake in bed last night, I had a think about this project, mainly to do with keeping the VTOL aspect. I thought about Tom O'Connells idea for moving a weight side to side, making it bank. But I thought about using this to move the CG forwad and back to change from VTOL to forward flight mode. Please excuse the simplicity of theis drawing, I'm away at the moment, and only have a laptop with MSpaint and a track pad...
So basically, on the centre line right behind the motor, you have a servo with parrallel arms going to a battery tray. In forward flight mode, the battery is moved to the edge of the box, creating a forward and low CG.
Then the battery is moved back and to the centre line for VTOL. The CG is then more in line with the centre line and moved back, making it more stable for prop hang.
You would need to have a gyro on the aileron channel of your elevons though, otherwise you'd have all sorts of torque roll going on!
The transition from VTOL to Forward flight might need to take 3~5 seconds (just a guess) but it would be interesting to see what would happen if you put it on the landing gear channel and just switched it! But if you had it on like a pitch trim channel, then you could tweak the CG dynamically during flight, as well as make the trasition more smooth.
Some tweaking of the servo endstops would need to be done to keep it within limits.
Couple this with an added rudder, and I think you'll be well on your way.
NAM
P.S. Yes I think its disturbing too that I was thinking about Chad in the middle of the night.....
I like that idea of a variable CG!
That is also the way RC motorbikes work! They move the battery to make the bike lean into the curve.
Nice pic as well even though it was done with pain
Non Action Man
Nose Landing Specialist
No prob, man! MS Paint is the best graphics software ever!
(Image was a bit big and off topic)
lol, nice pic
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Lying awake in bed last night, I had a think about this project, mainly to do with keeping the VTOL aspect. I thought about Tom O'Connells idea for moving a weight side to side, making it bank. But I thought about using this to move the CG forwad and back to change from VTOL to forward flight mode. Please excuse the simplicity of theis drawing, I'm away at the moment, and only have a laptop with MSpaint and a track pad...
So basically, on the centre line right behind the motor, you have a servo with parrallel arms going to a battery tray. In forward flight mode, the battery is moved to the edge of the box, creating a forward and low CG.
Then the battery is moved back and to the centre line for VTOL. The CG is then more in line with the centre line and moved back, making it more stable for prop hang.
You would need to have a gyro on the aileron channel of your elevons though, otherwise you'd have all sorts of torque roll going on!
The transition from VTOL to Forward flight might need to take 3~5 seconds (just a guess) but it would be interesting to see what would happen if you put it on the landing gear channel and just switched it! But if you had it on like a pitch trim channel, then you could tweak the CG dynamically during flight, as well as make the trasition more smooth.
Some tweaking of the servo endstops would need to be done to keep it within limits.
Couple this with an added rudder, and I think you'll be well on your way.
NAM
P.S. Yes I think its disturbing too that I was thinking about Chad in the middle of the night.....
Wow! this is the same kind of midnight engineering I do!
The element I like about this idea is, it keeps the outside of the box the same. While I deeply appreciate your around the clock dedication and tremendous talent in MS Paint, I have to say, I'm trying to keep it it simple. One thing that I've learned over the past year is, most of the time there's a minor change to a huge solution.
I can definitely see us exploring something like this in the future, just to see what it does.
Thanks for the input!
Thanks for posting this. I haven't seen it before. Here are a few things I'm trying to do differently.
-I'd like to keep everything (including prop) inside the box
-Vertical takeoff
-Made from the simplest of supplies (foam, tape, hot glue)
This is primarily a project to work on something fun together as community. I'd love to yours flying when you get it built.
Non Action Man
Nose Landing Specialist
This thread is getting long! Sorry if someone has suggested this before:
What about making an X wing diagonally inside the box? Maybe about 3/4 the length or so with an actual airfiol profile. With the diagonal x wing, you get the longest wing span you can inside a given square, and longer control surfaces. Also more wing area might reduce the problems your having with the CG.
The use of X-tail mixing would give you nice trust vectoring as well, which should help with the VTOL.
Speaking of VTOL, you said you wanted to take off vertically, but what about landing? Would be sweet to be able land it on its end again.
Thanks for involving us in this project, I for one am really enjoying the discussion! Please do this again in the future.
NAM
What about making an X wing diagonally inside the box? Maybe about 3/4 the length or so with an actual airfiol profile. With the diagonal x wing, you get the longest wing span you can inside a given square, and longer control surfaces. Also more wing area might reduce the problems your having with the CG.
The use of X-tail mixing would give you nice trust vectoring as well, which should help with the VTOL.
Speaking of VTOL, you said you wanted to take off vertically, but what about landing? Would be sweet to be able land it on its end again.
Thanks for involving us in this project, I for one am really enjoying the discussion! Please do this again in the future.
NAM
stefan_mkd
Junior Member
Why dont you add a gyro on the roll axis?
What if you would build your elevons going into the corners and use two hobbyking v tail mixers, one for the top v and the other for the bottom v. You would have to use triangular shaped elevons so they would clear the sides as they moved. I've wonderd if you would need to use a servo reverser for the bottom elevon function, not sure. I would suggest ordering 2 reversers and 2 v tail mixers. I believe this would give you crazy roll and plenty pitch control. I see this thought has been kinda suggested before, and I like the idea about placing the battery on the roll axis.
Sean
Sean
balsa or carbon
Junior Member
Here is one that uses RET, corner on the bottom , flies high alpha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3B4KTzwwVE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Here is another interesting RC flyer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ChvTm8peuo
Here is another interesting RC flyer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ChvTm8peuo
Non Action Man
Nose Landing Specialist
how you getting on with this Chad?
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