Tricopter flight control feature battle

[pelotron]

Hi all -

The last couple years I have been strictly flying 5"/6" quads with my local racing/freestyle community, but lately have desired to get my old Tricopter V3(.5?) back up and running. It still has an old 8-bit MWC flight controller, 9" props, and who-knows-what ESCs on it.

I see now that the V4 electronics kit ships with 1300kv motors and 8" props. Great! That along with my desire to add GPS to it gives me enough reason to upgrade all the electronics. I want to fully modernize it with DSHOT ESCs, an F4 FC, and move to the 1300kv/8" prop power train. The problem I'm running into is deciding which flight control software to use.

I run BetaFlight on my quads and have enjoyed the tip-of-the-spear acro performance, but this renewed tricopter is going to be used as a relaxed long-range video platform capable of utilizing GPS features while still being fun to fly acro. Unfortunately, between the three major flight control contenders, there isn't a clear winner:

BetaFlight
----------
PRO: awesome acro performance, advanced gyro filtering
CON: rudimentary GPS support (no autonomous flight), Tricopter tail performance is unknown

iNav
----------
PRO: all the autonomy
CON: gyro filtering and tail performance unknown, some reports of autonomous features not working well with multirotors?

Triflight
----------
PRO: that sweet tail performance
CON: GPS support unknown, gyro filtering/performance unknown, project seems like it is no longer maintained

So to all of you who have continued to fly tricopters as advanced features like DSHOT have come on the scene, can you give me any advice on the direction I should go? In an ideal world I would use something with all the PROs listed above, but after scanning all those projects' GitHub accounts, it is clear that the developers are not interested in producing such software. If only someone would create a MegaFlight or something made only for F7 processors .

So what do you guys think? Do tricopters work on BetaFlight? How is multirotor performance in iNav? Does Triflight have GPS support or any other modern features?

Thanks for any help you all can provide!

 

[LitterBug]

Hi all -

...
Thanks for any help you all can provide!

@pelotron ,
Welcome to the Flite Test Forums and please provide pictures of your build! We LOVE to see what everyone else is flying! I've been the resident tricopter nut around here for the last year or so and it is great to see more people bringing more tris in lately! Of the three, I'd probably test out iNav. I'll just muddy this up a bit more for you, since I have chosen yet another firmware path. dRonin.org . I have almost given up on all the current versions of *flight, and have not used iNav recently, but do want to give it another go sometime soon. TriFlight was good up to version 0.5, but since 0.7 has had tail oscillations that have plagued it. (on my Baby Tricopters anyway). I've been working with one of the dRonin devs who has a branch with the TriFlight routines @lauka made. Same issue with tail issues on 0.7 there and we have been focusing more on the 0.5 routines as of late. I'm currently building a second F80 1900kv Mini Tri with a slightly extended rear boom so I can run up to 8" props. It will be dRonin only with an AirDTF Seppuku FC/OSD. Will be adding NAV features later this year after getting all the initial build, config, and testing out of the way. I guess you could also look at a DJI Naza or PixHawk. I have not played with those on a Tri yet.

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[pelotron]

Thanks Litterbug! I've actually been a member of this forum since 2013 but haven't kept up with it for quite a while. Not sure why I have the "New member" subtitle, but anyway -

Top left is my first ever build, an old FT kit. It was the one with the "tinker toys" landing gear that subsequently shattered into millions of pieces over and over again as I learned to fly LOS. DT750's with 11" props, KK2 FC. The Tricopter V3 that I'm upgrading is top right. I also flew that LOS initially. Hence the LEDs which were great or orientation. Bottom is my first racing quad. Not pictured is a 6" Chameleon that I mainly use for freestyle flying.

I've seen some posts here about dRonin - can you give me a breakdown of what it's major features/advantages are? Does it support GPS/RTH? Thanks!

 

[LitterBug]

LOL, Ok yeah, I thought you had been around. Somebody must have been playing with your subtitle.
Those LEDs are AWESOME!. I really need to get some on my tris for LOS. Don't need them for FPV which is what I do for most of my flying.

dRonin's biggest advantage/feature is it's Autotune and well tuned flight algorithms. It does support GPS and GPS based flight modes. I have not yet done much flying with GPS flight modes on it but have that in store later this summer. Have a Mini Tri and a F550 hex that will be done up, with long range RX, TX, FPV, and full GPS capablities when complete. dRonin has a completely different lineage than *flight. it's based on Openpilot, Librepilot, Taulabs. The Devs are methodical, no bull, no hype, no drama, do what works in "reality" people. Hardware support is not as diverse as *flight, but there is support for quite a few F3 and F4 FCs. The "reference FC" is the AirDTF Seppuku which is F4 based with OSD. I've mostly flown quads and Tricopters on it, but also have a Singlecopter and a couple of wings running dRonin.

Here's my F550 running an older version of dRonin on an F3 FC on 3S

Not too shabby for a giant!

I have since flown that F550 with the exact same hardware on 6S with the max output limited by the FC to 4S power. That has evovled into a Dial-A-KV feature that will be out in a later full release.

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[pelotron]

dRonin sounds really promising! I'd love to give it a try. Do you know if either the Omnibus F4 V3 Pro or Betaflight F4 flight controllers are supported? Those are the two boards I have on hand that I was going to chose from for this build.

 

[LitterBug]

You "may" have luck with the Omnibus F4. (use ef_revolution.hex) It's kind of hit or miss because manufacturers take some liberties with the components and pin mappings. I've been trying to get a working 20x20 F4 omnibus, but the ones I've tried end up in a boot loop. Easy enough to flash back to BF if it fails though. Worth a shot!

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[pelotron]

I'll give it a shot and report back then. Thanks!

 

[pelotron]

Oh dear. The last of my electronics arrived in the mail today, but I then found this page:
https://github.com/d-ronin/dRonin/wiki/Choosing-a-flight-controller-for-dRonin

I hold in my hand the Omnibus F4 SD card version.

As I've read more about dRonin the last few days I have gotten really interested in trying it (and showing it off to my local community) so I don't want to give up yet. I technically don't need this tricopter up and running for another 3 weeks so I have time to order a different FC. Do you have any recommendations for one? The Seppuku looks interesting, if a bit pricey. However I'm also planning on integrating this GPS unit which includes a magnetometer:

http://www.readytoflyquads.com/mini-ublox-m8n-gps-w-35x35mm-mounting-backplane-and-compass

If I get a flight controller that also includes a magnetometer, will that cause any compatibility issues? I think I came across a thread or documentation somewhere that mentioned that problem.

By the way, is it pronounced "dee-ronin" or "dronin"?

 

[LitterBug]

Well, which board specifically is it you have and have you given it a try with the revolution.hex? Because if it is an omnibus F4, there is still a chance that it will work even if it is an SD version. There's more to it than just the SD card reader as to why it does or does not work. Seems like they will either boot and work, or get stuck in a boot loop.

Magnetometer shouldn't matter. I have that exact GPS you linked hooked up to one of my Seppuku FCs. I disabled the internal MAG and enabled the external connected over I2C.

Pronounced "drone" "in"???

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[pelotron]

Alright LitterBug, you've got me on the ride now. Flashing the revolution hex file from the Betaflight configurator worked on the first try, and the dRonin GCS detects the board. I started to poke through the initial setup but don't have the board wired to anything yet so I exited before the calibration step. I'll proceed with my build this weekend and see what happens.

For the time being I have one question:

Apparently the barometer is not being detected. Should I be concerned or do you think there's a way to get it enabled?

 

[LitterBug]

Actually, Just went through this Baro detection issue with the lead Dev this week on Revolution clones. The clones use the BMP280 baro and it wasn't being detected. I tested a fix for this on my Matek F405-Wing FC and Baro support should be fixed in the next release which should be out very soon!

Enjoy the ride!

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[pelotron]

Awesome! If everything else checks out after I get the copter refurbished then I might look into helping test this as well. I see that build artifacts are provided in the pull request which is nice. https://github.com/d-ronin/dRonin/pull/2203

Another question - I assume the SD card reader will not work? I can live without it if everything else works. I've only ever used Blackbox to help zero in PID tunings, but that is not necessary with dRonin.

 

[LitterBug]

Yeah, 2203 is the PR if you want to see if that fixes your missing baro. We don't do much blackboxish stuff since autotune takes 99% of the need for that out of the mix. The SD slots are currently not supported. We use external serial OpenLager SD devices when logs are needed.

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[jhitesma]

Yeah, 2203 is the PR if you want to see if that fixes your missing baro. We don't do much blackboxish stuff since autotune takes 99% of the need for that out of the mix. The SD slots are currently not supported. We use external serial OpenLager SD devices when logs are needed.

Additionally the built in SD slots usually aren't designed to be fast enough to keep up with dRonin logs which are considerably more intense than *flight logs (more stuff being logged at higher rates) which is why the dRonin devs created OpenLager which is basically an OpenLogger on steroids capable of much faster data transfers.

 

[LitterBug]

I mistakenly jumped the gun on running dRonin on the Matek F405-Wing FC before checking the mapping. Most of the IO is not mapped anything like the Revolution or Omnibus.... But, If you do get a chance to test that PR, please let us know if it fixes the baro on your board, and/or comment on PR2203 on Github.

 

[Cshep70]

Litterbug, greetings again! LOTS of us Inav guys love the omnibus. I have a mini- and baby- tricopters (both with the dRonin motor layout) with omnibusF4 and I'm fighting Betaflight 3.5 for stable flight. I do NOT want to go back to Triflight.7 and tried dRonin on both with the revolution build and struck out both times. I've begged lauka to build an omnibus hex for Triflight 3.2, could you poke your contacts at dRonin for an omnibus F4 (SD??) build?

 

[PsyBorg]

Oh now you have my attention!!!

Mmm mmm. Open lager.. I can hear the tssssttt and the fizz now. Will they still be cold by the time I get there?

 

[Nobert]

Any update or progress on this

 

[LitterBug]

Sorry @Nobert, I've been away with family, work, life, etc... Can you post up some screen shots of your config pages and any errors you are getting?

Cheers!
LitterBug