Twitchity quad with power board - test build

[jhitesma]

Thurmond - thanks for encouraging me to take a look at the power traces again. Just opened up the files and confirmed I was in the wrong units I knew those traces looked too thin. Calculator is showing over 100F temperature rise at just 10a. On the traces I have now

Grrr, really meant to go back and take a closer look at those before ordering, same with the tiny battery holes. Good thing I'm already planning on doing a rev2. Since you've got a rev1 board I'll include you in the review process before submitting them to OSHpark this time. I'd love to hear any feedback you have on the board that I could incorporate into the next revision. Rev2 I plan on having most of the bottom layer as a ground plane and most of the top outside of the FC mounting holes as a power plane. The area the FC mounts over I'm trying to keep clear since that's where I plan on putting a built in FC in the future.

One thing I also noticed on the board you may want to watch for. The board outline is not 100% symmetrical. It's close, but not perfect. I actually noticed this in Twitchity's original files he sent me when I was drawing out circuit designs by hand. I held two printouts up to the window to trace some earlier ideas and found that rotating one 90 degress caused a slight misalignment between them. And I noticed the same with the PDB. Bolt it up one way and it lines up perfectly with the lower plate used as an upper plate. But rotate it 90 degrees and it's just under 1mm off. Still fits fine but hangs over on one side a tiny bit and comes up short on the opposite side. Not really noticeable unless you're looking/feeling for it (I can feel it more than see it it's such a slight mismatch) but since you seem like someone who likes to take their time and get things "just right" I thought I'd warn you to watch for it

 

[x0054]

It's a mix of the free versions of Eagle and Diptrace that I'm using right now. I'm still looking for a better solution though. I really don't care for Eagle much even though it's become a go to standard in the DIY community. And their free, Hobbyist and even lower end commercial offerings are all too limited to do a board for a H quad or hex due to their size limitations.

Thanks! I'll try that out. I have a little electronics background, more like electricity background, working a lot on cars and all. This is all very new to me, but I love learning new things.

You are right about the AfroMINI, the annoying part about it is those pads on the bottom of the board. It's not clear to me at all why those could not have been designed to be brake-out pin holes. But I'll see if I can get around that.

 

[jhitesma]

Ok, getting late again here and I still haven't finished posting the stuff I was going to post yesterday. Love being a dad but man does it eat time

So I left off with the PDB populated and tested. Next thing I did was build up the arms. I trimmed the motor leads to match where I wanted to position the ESC's and then soldered them together, slipped some heat shrink over the arms and started assembling them to just the PDB. I followed Soma's warpquad tips and soldered two opposite arms with the wires straight as they came out of the motors and the other two with one wire crossed. Just like the SS2204's this resulted in two going one way and two going the other (by a stroke of luck I even manged to get them in the right positions first try without looking up which was supposed to go which way!)


Trimming the wires further saved me another 2g. That's on top of the 5g of wire I cut off these motors before putting them on the umbq. DYS does not skimp on wire length at all, in fact I think these are the longest wires of any motor I've used!


Decision time now...will I use the solid plate meant for the bottom...or the open plate designed as the top. Let's weigh them - maybe that will help me decide. Solid plate adds 8g:


Solid plate adds 13g - 5g more than the open plate. Man I'd like to use that open plate...but the 3mm arms are just too thin to fit the afromini inside even with the open plate. If I took the sat off and mounted it separately I could make it work. But I'm really really low on clear heatshrink so I'd rather not have to do that. For now I'll eat the 5g and go with the solid plate:


The afromini and sat together add another 5g. The heatshrink adds an extra 1g...I almost cut it off but I'm glad I didn't as the field was freshly watered this morning and I had a few wet landings.


Next I took it all back apart, wired up the afromini ESC wires, and added power wires between the PDB and the ESC's - then put it back together again with the top plate included. Without the top plate I was worried about breaking the PDB as just the weight of the motors was causing it to flex quite a bit. With the top plate - it's solid. Hey, this thing is just about ready to fly now!


Even though I rushed this build in under 3 hours I still ended up doing 3-4 full assemblies of the frame - first just to test the frame and PDB by itself, then while building to keep things together - but only partly which forced the rebuilds to add back the rest of the parts. A few of the rebuild steps could be skipped sped up by reversing the screws/nuts and putting the nuts on top - but it just seems wrong to me to do it that way. Screws should go down and nuts should go on the bottom. That way if the nut falls off the screw won't fall out...even if everything attached to it falls off

 

[jhitesma]

I did one more test measure at this point putting some props and spinners on to try and see how I was doing. My unofficial unstated goal going into this build was to try and bring it in lighter than a 230mm warp with 2204's to help make up for the lower power of the 1806 motors. I still don't/didn't expect warp quad level of performance - but it's nice to have goals sometimes



Results were very encouraging. I added some velcro for the battery and a pad made out of black 1/4" craft foam from Michaels to give the battery some padding and something to stick against. I just cut out a piece that covered the four inner nuts - then pressed it against them to mark the foam. Where the nuts were I cut away most of the foam leaving just a 1/16" or so layer above the nuts since one of my nitpicks on the warp was that the foam tape Soma provides wore out really quick and wasn't thicker than the nuts so my packs were getting nicked up from rubbing against the nuts in crashes. This larger pad may have added a g or two more weight, and didn't have it's own adhesive (which is why I don't have any photos of it, I never stuck it in place - just relied on friction/compression between the frame and battery, and lost it somewhere between the field and home today.) but it's nice and grippy so the battery stays put until a crash and it covers those nuts so my packs won't get as dinged up.

With that done and the quad all ready for flight AUW comes in at 218g meaning I actually met my goal of coming in lighter than the warp!



Warp with BS12a ESC's and FC 6045 props. To be fair the the Twitchity only has Gemfan 5030's on it which are a bit lighter than the FC's. But I didn't have any more FC's to put on for a truly fair comparison. And the warp has since been upgraded to KISS's which dropped almost 20g off it's weight. Honestly...the warp still wins for weight. The 2204's are heavier than the 1806's so if I'd built with 2204's I'd have been over the warps weight for sure. But I still find it an interesting comparison.


With a 1.3 30c Turnigy pack flying weight comes in at 325g. Not too bad at all!



I had hoped to edit the videos from this morning together into one more concise video...but...well I still can't get any editing software that will deal with files from the Mobius to run on my backroom PC. Even converting them to AVI they'll open but I get audio only no video. So until I get my video editing figured out or break down and move the good PC out of the living room and back here...you guys get to enjoy raw unedited footage.

First test flight at the field with GemFan5030's. I had three slightly different tunes setup on the three afromini profiles which is why I came back to land so quickly. I was hoping the lower PID's on one of the tunes would get rid of the high speed wobbles I was getting - but now I'm pretty sure those were due to that bad motor. Note crash into the parking lot did nothing more than scratch up the ends of the arms a little. Was kind of surprised to break a prop crashing on the soft wet ground...but they are gemfans so I wasn't that surprised.

Next I swapped to the one set of HQ 5x4's I had, much more fun! I started in on the strength testing pretty quickly with this setup

I was expecting some carnage so I shut off the camera to save face. I should have sucked it up and kept rolling though because the quad and props were intact and I was able to take off without even picking it up:

Re-attached the battery and popped it back up...but the high speed oscillations made it really hard to fly. Had seen quadmovr's suggestion that to keep orientation "just keep flying" so figured maybe that would work for the wobbles too since big movements still seemed fine it was just fine detailed stuff that was tricky. I had been using a bit of Horizon earlier but at this point I sucked it up and just shut it off to rule it out as a problem source as well. My acro skills are still not that great though so I got to do some more crash testing. After the last crash you can see me pick up the battery pad I mentioned that I didn't get photos of (and this is how I know I didn't leave it at the field!):

Unfortunately I lost it in an acro flip and crashed - which resulted in a motor packed with mud and one of my 5x4's broken. I only had one set of 5x4's (wasn't sure if I'd prefer the 5x4's or 6x3's on this quad...and still not sure honestly.) I still had some gemfan's I could have put on...but it was super muggy and nasty out, that motor was packed with mud, the high speed wobbles weren't going away with tuning, and I was due at a friends house to help him assemble his new home gym in 20 minutes...so I decided to pack up and call it a day.

Current status of the quad. Funky motor swapped out and all four now sound smooth as silk and show .003" or less of runout. But I'm down to gemfan 5030's so it doesn't really matter how little runout the shafts have performance will be limited by the props Placing an order with gothelirc for some more FC props and then turning in for the night.

Overall I'm pretty impressed so far. I can't wait to try it with the funky motor swapped out to see if that clears up the shakes like I suspect it will. Then I can dig in on the PID's. Really wish I could afford a set of KISS's to see what this frame can really do. Man I miss those KISS's...they really are freaking amazing.

 

[jhitesma]

Thanks! I'll try that out. I have a little electronics background, more like electricity background, working a lot on cars and all. This is all very new to me, but I love learning new things.

It's a steep learning curve. I suggest starting very simple with some basic circuits you're already familiar with. Pick up some bare copper board and etchant (or make your own, do a google search for DIY PCB etchant) and wire up some simple LED blinkers or something to get a feel for it first. Then try sending a small board off to OSHpark - since their prices are by the sqin a small board is cheapest to try with first. Once you've got the basics start dealing with larger and larger designs

Google for Eagle tutorials and you'll find quite a few. Eagle has their own tutorial that's really good and there are some great ones on youtube and instructibles. Nice thing about Eagle are so many people are using it there's a TON of info out there about it. But you're limited to things not much bigger than the Twitchity PDB unless you pay a LOT of money.

You are right about the AfroMINI, the annoying part about it is those pads on the bottom of the board. It's not clear to me at all why those could not have been designed to be brake-out pin holes. But I'll see if I can get around that.

Yeah it's a bit of a mystery. I would have rather seen him leave off so many redundant power/gnd pins and move some of the things on pads up to the pin header area. I mean it's designed for PPM/Serial RX's only so why bother with all the power/gnd connections? I get the feeling TC made them just to see how small he could make the circuit late one night and ordered a set of PCB's without fully reviewing what he had done They seem kind of like the redheaded stepchild of the afro/naze boards.

I can think of a few ways it could be mounted or worked around...but they're all kind of ugly.

 

[Twitchity]

Finally had time this morning to sit down and read through the thread and watch your videos. It's sad to see that the problem persists even with the new frame. I seem to have the same problem with the one DYS motor sounding different than the others, but mine is on a heavier frame so the vibrations aren't as noticeable.

The frame has already gone through more punishment than I expected so far. Once I get mine build I'm going to take the old prototype frame that's made out of G10 and see how much weight/abuse it can take. I'm really interested to see if the frame will crack before the arms with the FC mounted to the bottom frame. When I received the PDB from the printer, I thought the power traces seemed a little on the small side, but I wasn't sure if that's how they were supposed to be. I'm still waiting on more 1/8" G10 to arrive to make my frame, but hopefully I'll have that finished by this weekend and have mine up in the air and flying.

Keep up the good work I'm also wondering if the flex in the G10 is causing the oscillation you're experiencing that can't be tuned out with the PID's. Hopefully we'll be able to tell once Thurmond gets his frame in the air if the G10 causes a problem with these thin arms.

 

[cranialrectosis]

I see you shrink the heat shrink only at the last moment.

 

[jhitesma]

Finally had time this morning to sit down and read through the thread and watch your videos. It's sad to see that the problem persists even with the new frame. I seem to have the same problem with the one DYS motor sounding different than the others, but mine is on a heavier frame so the vibrations aren't as noticeable.

Well, the good news for the frame is that the problems following the parts are pointing towards that wonky motor being the big issue. I forgot to mention I also found a cold solder joint on one of the motor/ESC connections which may have been contributing as well - it actually came apart while I was disassembling the wood frame. Really wanted to do a test flight with the replacement motor this morning but it was crazy windy out so that didn't happen. Hopefully it will calm down by lunch.

The frame has already gone through more punishment than I expected so far. Once I get mine build I'm going to take the old prototype frame that's made out of G10 and see how much weight/abuse it can take. I'm really interested to see if the frame will crack before the arms with the FC mounted to the bottom frame. When I received the PDB from the printer, I thought the power traces seemed a little on the small side, but I wasn't sure if that's how they were supposed to be. I'm still waiting on more 1/8" G10 to arrive to make my frame, but hopefully I'll have that finished by this weekend and have mine
up in the air and flying.

Yeah, I didn't really intend to give it quite that much punishment this quickly - but dealing with a wonky motor things happen My money is on arms breaking first...but we'll see - that's just my gut feeling.

Keep up the good work I'm also wondering if the flex in the G10 is causing the oscillation you're experiencing that can't be tuned out with the PID's. Hopefully we'll be able to tell once Thurmond gets his frame in the air if the G10 causes a problem with these thin arms.

I'm really hoping this motor swap solves the issue. I didn't see any noticeable flex - but that doesn't mean there isn't flex I can't see contributing. If there are still issues after I get to test again (with decent props, that will be a few days, ordered 2 more sets of 6x3's and 4 sets of 5x4's last night, that should get me through another week or so) It's crazy I've got all these props:



But can't make one set to fly on out of them! Well, I could but they'd be all green and my skills aren't good enough to fly with unicolor props on a solid black frame yet

Seems like I keep breaking right rear props. I have 3 sets of 6x3's other than orange R's

If the motor swap hasn't helped I have a few ideas on how to stiffen the arms to test next. But that motor was so bad I've got a strong feeling that it was the major problem since the problem has followed me across two frames.

I also ordered what I hope are the right size bearings (2mm ID, 6mm OD, 3mm thick - I know the 2x6 is right but didn't have a chance to pop a bearing out yet to confirm the thickness) along with the props so I can repair that one wonky motor. With it disassembled and just a shaft in there the bearings feel horrible Must have been a dud right from the start - maybe that grit was bits of bearing....

 

[Tritium]

Hopefully we'll be able to tell once Thurmond gets his frame in the air if the G10 causes a problem with these thin arms.

Unfortunately it may be a week still. I am still working through lightning damage today. It got parts of my PC, Blew the DSL modem and my router but worst of all Trashed my $700 solar charge controller AND damaged the Serial interface (all I can tell so far) of my nearly new $1K HF Ham radio. Not Happy here at ALL!

Thurmond

 

[jhitesma]

Lightening sucks Even with protection in-line I always disconnect my antenna wires and put them in ceramic/glass containers until storms blow through. Of course that's a lot easier to do here were we get 3-4 storms a year compared to when I lived in Ohio There I used to just use my antenna switch to disconnect and then hope my grounds and protection do their job!

Out of curiosity which HF rig did you pick up? I actually have my HF antenna back up but haven't made a permanent way to get the feedline into my house yet so I just pull it in through the dog door when I want to get on-air - which right now is mostly done with my PSK-20 or my SoftRock SDR rigs. Need to setup my old 747GX again one of these days but I killed my good bench power supply last summer and haven't had a chance to figure out what's wrong with it yet.

 

[jhitesma]

Winds were a bit calmer at lunch....test was a lot quieter but still a bit shaky. Too many variables still...could be the beat up unbalanced gemfans, could be the wind which was pushing me around, could be my FC mounting, could be the 1/8" G10 arms. But got a shipping notice from gothelirc already so I'll be able to swap to better props in a day or two eliminating that variable and hopefully the wind will be calmer to eliminate that one.

I could swap to the flip pro I have on hand to eliminate my FC mounting...but I'll try a few other things first and may try some physical modifications to the arms to stiffen them and see how that changes things.

Still had a fun little pack of front yard fun and despite two dumb thumb over pavement mistakes the frame is still holding up with no damage! (Note to self: When doing fast left yaw spins and deciding to descend be careful not to drop the throttle too low. Disarming while 20 feet up isn't good!)

 

[Tritium]

HF radio is a TS-480SAT. The only thing connected was the computer interface and that is definitely gone now. Rest of the radio seems to work but it will be on it's way to Kenwood shortly to get repaired and tested. I have traced the strike back to a leader that got the 2 meter j pole. It then traveled / DSL line where both pass through the wall in close proximity. The end was unplugged, shorted at the connector and in a mason jar. What really hurts is my solar array now has nothing to do since that controller is blown and will probably be on it's way to MidNite Solar in Washington State soon. I have to move some cattle to market tomorrow and go to the city and retrieve some new wireless components Wednesday but I hope to get back to building full time Thursday.

I have a Warp Quad String Theory Frame (the little one) sitting on the bench and Twitchity's frame is actually stiffer than it is so I don't think stiffness is an issue. I also have a Raven frame on the bench and it is REALLY Stiff but the arms are 4.5mm CF and the center plates are 2mm CF so stiffness is to be expected.

An idea for a PDB / Controller would be a socket that would allow the Naze Mini to be plugged onto the PDB. That way the design should be pretty simple as long as power and signal line routing and length was done carefully.

Let me know when you order the next PDB's and I'll kick in some support $. Those LED's are a BEAR to solder. I gave up on Hot air and just used tweezers and a fine tip iron. I did use 183 C SMD solder and flux though. I used Green on Right and Red on Left for standard aircraft orientation markers. I unfortunately / fortunately have a router board to harvest SMA leds and resistors from and it has some ultra bright Blue ones I plan to use front and back. Those purple ones are just too different in voltage requirements it seems.

Thurmond

 

[jhitesma]

HF radio is a TS-480SAT.

Nice rig, I was really into sats for a year or two when Eagle launched but with all the LEO sats pretty much dead and the HEO projects in limbo for lack of launch funds I'm glad I never invested in the rigs I was drooling over and stuck to FM handheld operations. I miss AO-51 and AO-27. I see the beacond on AO-51 is still active but I know the sat has been dead for a few years. Looks like SO-50 is still alive...I may dust off the Yagi and see if I can give it a listen. Looks like we're going to have a nice visible ISS pass at sunset tonight too so I may turn on the 2M rig and see if they're active - my daughter would get a kick out of talking to a real live spaceman

Sounds like you had pretty good precautions...but lighting can be tricky. I've had a couple friends almost loose their houses from phone wiring getting hit. And I lost a couple of modems back in the day from indirect strikes. So glad I don't have to deal with lightening very often anymore

I have a Warp Quad String Theory Frame (the little one) sitting on the bench and Twitchity's frame is actually stiffer than it is so I don't think stiffness is an issue. I also have a Raven frame on the bench and it is REALLY Stiff but the arms are 4.5mm CF and the center plates are 2mm CF so stiffness is to be expected.

I haven't seen the 200mm warp but the 230 was VERY stiff, definitely stiffer than the Twitchity. I'm really not convinced that it's the arms causing my issues though. They're a little flexy but not flexy enough for me to think they're the problem. Twitchity seems more worried about them than I am

I see that the 200mm frame uses 3mm instead of 4mm arms so that's the same thickness as Twitchitys. I know carbon is supposed to be stiffer but I don't think it's that much stiffer. I'd love to get some 4mm G10 arms to try on this frame. So far I'm 100% convinced that G10 is vastly overlooked as a viable frame material.

An idea for a PDB / Controller would be a socket that would allow the Naze Mini to be plugged onto the PDB. That way the design should be pretty simple as long as power and signal line routing and length was done carefully.

I thought about that. The problem is though that the afromini relies on non-through pads for some things like Motor 1 and RX/TX for a serial RX input. So there's no real good way to integrate it. I was thinking about just leaving pads to mount a MPU-6050 module since that's what I'm having the hardest time routing - but it just feels hackish. I'd really like to do a board the way I want to with a really clean layout. Integrated controller is a long range dream though.

Let me know when you order the next PDB's and I'll kick in some support $. Those LED's are a BEAR to solder. I gave up on Hot air and just used tweezers and a fine tip iron. I did use 183 C SMD solder and flux though. I used Green on Right and Red on Left for standard aircraft orientation markers. I unfortunately / fortunately have a router board to harvest SMA leds and resistors from and it has some ultra bright Blue ones I plan to use front and back. Those purple ones are just too different in voltage requirements it seems.

Yeah, the purple are pretty funky. And they are no fun at all to solder. That's why I'm going to step up to the next size on the next board layout. Glad you're at least able to make some use out of the fried equipment!

 

[jhitesma]

Looks like wind may have been the main issue at lunch. I bought the quad into work this afternoon to show a co-worker and on a whim fired it up and did a little indoor hover. It was pretty darn stable. Not rock solid yet but looking pretty good. Not at all as wobbly as it was at lunch.

With better props and a bit of tuning this thing is going to be a blast Wonder how many more weeks until I can afford some KISS esc's and/or 2204's for it.....

 

[jhitesma]

Did I mention I love gothelirc? Placed my order last night with the cheap "no tracking" USPS shipping. Got a shipping notice this morning with a tracking number all the same Yeah, it's not showing up on USPS yet and since he's in the same state there's a good chance the props will arrive before the tracking starts showing up....but still nice that he provides it even though he says it's not available on that option.

I could probably find the HQ props a little cheaper somewhere else...but not with <$3 shipping that gets to me in 1-2 days

 

[Tritium]

Looks like wind may have been the main issue at lunch. I bought the quad into work this afternoon to show a co-worker and on a whim fired it up and did a little indoor hover. It was pretty darn stable. Not rock solid yet but looking pretty good. Not at all as wobbly as it was at lunch.

With better props and a bit of tuning this thing is going to be a blast Wonder how many more weeks until I can afford some KISS esc's and/or 2204's for it.....

With all the signal timing overhead external to the esc's I am mixed in my feelings that the KISS really give a performance edge but that is just opinion is based on numbers and not actual flight experience.

Thurmond

 

[jhitesma]

Having flown the same warp with BS12's and with KISS...the KISS make a HUGE difference. It's really hard to believe just how big of a difference they make it's so big. As soon as you spin up the motors on KISS the first time though it's obvious before it even gets in the air. I thought the 2204's on the were having issues with their bearings they were so noisy...but on the KISS - they're SILENT. Take the props off and it makes almost no noise as the motors spin! And in the air? It's like going from a dog leash to a stiff branch, then switching it to oneshot is like switching to a steel pole the quad feels so locked in.

All that with no other tuning changes, just swapping from BS12's with SimonK to KISS. Seriously, the difference is night and day.


I'm also glad to report that the Twitchity is looking very solid in the air now. Wind abated some (still a bit breezy but not bad) and I did a test flight in the front yard...started out good but quickly got shaky again, then started to yaw without me giving input...huh? Landed to see if I could figure out what was up and found that a motor screw had fallen out and another was about to come out. Grrr. The stock DYS 1806 screws just don't stay tight. This was less than a pack since I had tightened them! I'm scared to use any kind of loctite though since I've had bad experiences with it and aluminum - even the kind supposedly made for aluminum

Once I replaced the missing screw and snugged them all down again I put it back in the air - and it's really stable again now. Had a blast flying acro in the front yard chasing cars down the street and doing figure 8's....then lost orientation and decided to ditch in my neighbors front yard - forgetting that her sprinklers had just come on.

Nothing seems fried (I just missed the full force of a sprinkler!) no more wet than landing in the dew Sunday morning. Kind of wishing I had shrunk that heat shrink though. (Keep forgetting to mention, I haven't shrunk it yet since I'm seriously considering giving blHeli a try.) But all the same going to let it dry out before I try flying again.

This is still on the beat up gem fans. Can't wait for my HQ order to come in now more than ever

 

[Tritium]

I have had good luck with Rhino Superglue as a thread locker. Just the tiniest amount though. YMMV!
You might also try some teflon tape like used for pipe threads. Untried by me, just an idea.

Sounds like the KISS ESC's strength is not how the esc responds to input as much as the sync between ESC and Motor.
High speed synchronized 3 phase rotating magnetic fields (without a feedback loop) are almost a black art.

Thurmond

 

[jhitesma]

I have had good luck with Rhino Superglue as a thread locker. Just the tiniest amount though. YMMV!
You might also try some teflon tape like used for pipe threads. Untried by me, just an idea.

Hmmm, I just may try a drop of superglue. But it sounds like Twitchity is going to send me some different arms to try with some different mounting screws so I don't want to risk them being a little too locked just yet I could try a drop of clear nailpolish - used to use that on models all the time back in the day. I'd be nervous about trying teflon tape, seems like it would make the threads easier to unscrew, yeah it will take up some slack...but...dunno, just seems counter intuitive to me.

Sounds like the KISS ESC's strength is not how the esc responds to input as much as the sync between ESC and Motor.
High speed synchronized 3 phase rotating magnetic fields (without a feedback loop) are almost a black art.

The sync between the ESC and motor is indeed a big part of it. It maintains the sync better and at higher speeds due to higher quality FET's that can switch faster. But they also run cleaner with less back EMF it seems which I suspect is why they're so much quieter. I've also heard reports from a few guys that they've picked up a minute or two of flight time after switching to them due to the additional efficiency that faster/cleaner switching provides.

But the ESC's also has the ability to communicate faster with the FC. This is where oneshot really shines. It's a more subtle different but still noticeable. I didn't get much time on the KISS without oneshot though - we did a minute or two in the front yard each with it without oneshot and were so blown away we ran right back to the build table to enable oneshot before heading up to the field

Honestly the KISS's are almost a bigger improvement over simonk as simonk is over stock ESC's. I may be wrong though...they may be a bigger improvement.


Also - just popped a bearing out of the bad 1806 motor and it looks like once again this build is being smiled on from above as the S692ZZ 2x6x3 bearings I ordered appear to be correct. 2mm ID, 6mm OD, 3mm thick. USPS is saying expected delivery Wednesday for the bearings and props though Then again last time I ordered form gotheli my order arrived a day before USPS said to expect it. I'll be watching my mail close tomorrow just in case!

 

[FinalGlideAus]

The noticeable difference you feel in the KISS esc's is the regenerative braking working for you. Now that the esc can slow the motor down as quick as it can speed it up the response and feel are greatly improved. A normal BS12a would tell the motor to speed up for a fraction of a second to move the quad and then tell it to slow down again but the motor would take much longer to slow down because it is only relying on drag to do this and therefore overshoot its mark making the response not as precise but The KISS esc's with the regen braking make a huge difference.

Of course you can flash a BS12a with BLHeli and turn on it's regen braking but the fets on standard escs's are much slower switching so don't work as well. People are finding they are getting longer flight times with KISS because of the regen braking also as this feature actually will put power back into the battery when the motor is decelerating. I have found my Warpquad flight times improve by almost a minute. Also, the motors seem quieter because the esc is running at a high frequency that is not audible to the human ear. Combine all this with a TINY PCB and FW and fets designed specifically to run small high kv motors on multirotors and you have a quadcopter wet dream

There is a lot of debate on RCgroups as to whether OneShot makes a noticeable difference or not. It is agreed it does speed the FC/ESC link up but some people believe it is so minute an increase it is not noticeable by a human. OneShot differs in that instead of sending information from the FC to the ESC constantly at a frequency of 500hz (sometimes the same command is sent multiple times), the FC only sends info when it has something new to send and the esc holds the last command until it receives a new one. What this means is there is no bottleneck for the new info to get through. I haven't tried OneShot because I use Naze32 FC's (Timecop and Felix don't get along so Timecop won't allow OneShot on the Naze32) but I don't feel like I'm missing out since I can't see how much more locked in I could possibly get my quad. I'm keeping my opinion reserved until someone can do a No Oneshot/OneShot installed comparison like i did with the KISS esc/BS12a video...

It's worth noting if using a Naze32 and KISS esc's you will need to set looptime to 2000 and set Motor_pwm_rate to 490 so everything is running pretty much at 500hz (what the KISS esc's run at). Then if you tune it well enough you will notice the P gains will be slightly lower and the I and D gains will be slightly higher compared to say a BS12a on the same copter. The I and D gains will rise because they are time dependent and lowering the looptime will quicken the loop cycle allowing them to rise. The P gain won't rise because it's not time dependent, rather it will lower because the slowest part of the control loop is the motors but when you use KISS esc's that part of the control loop noticeably speeds up and to counteract that you need to lower the P gains.

I stopped posting about the KISS esc's on this forum as people just didn't seem interested just like they weren't interested in SunnySky motors and Naze 32's a few months back so figured I'd sit and wait like before .

BTW: good job on the Quad Twitch and great going on the PDB jhitesma. I've been silently keep tabs on your progress.