shadeyB
Legendary member
Yo
you need to also let us know what electronics etc is going in her 😍
*Unofficial* FT Spitfire Master Series
- Thread starter SP0NZ
- Start date
Hey shadyB, the canopy and pilot are from a 1200mm flightline Spitfire, I just drew round the canopy and cut the shape out and then used a bit of card inside to cover the holes. I did reinforce the centre section of the fuse with some thin balsa on the inside, i did this after cutting the hole for the canopy
As far as motor/esc goes, I'm using this SK3 with a 60a esc, will see how it flys on 3s, then if needs be i will buy some 4s batterys https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy...194&indexName=hbk_live_magento_en_us_products
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Geronimo
Active member
How does it fly with all that extra weight up front? A 3536 is listed at 172 grams (6.1 ounces) while the C pack or equivalent is about 2.25 ounces.
The reason I'm asking is that my CG is just where it should be, but the plane is twitchy/touchy to fly. I dialed down the throws on all the control surfaces but it just seems like the wing loading is so low that the wake turbulence from a bumble bee could throw this thing around. The motor can pull the plane right out of my hand (be OH SO CAREFUL of the left handed torque roll). Does it really need 4 ounces in the nose? It only weighs 25 ounces without a battery.
BATTLEAXE
Legendary member
I know, from experience that is, because i seem to like to figure things out the hard way, that there could be a few reasons for the torque roll and the twitchy response. One could be the plane is tail heavy, not to say that yours is but sometimes the actual working CG isn't where we thought it should be, especially on FB planes like we build. It really is just a starting point, hoping that if it is off the plane is still recoverable. Working CG is where the center of gravity and the center of pressure balance each other out, sometimes just the shape of the airfoil on the same model of wing built by two different people could be different. Another reason is there could be a lack of power, these master series designs have a molded more streamline less drag wing shape over the original FT creased and folded design. Add to that there is no under camber in the wing tips making for a faster plane that will have a higher stall speed then say the Scout. Lack of power could also induce a torque roll, especially if the plane hasn't gotten to its minimum lift speed, if that makes sense. In that case the plane will either roll and stall to the left or right. If it is the to much power on take off, say from a hand launch, and it still rolls to the left then this can be fixed with thrust angles down and to the left to some degree. Another one that could be the easy fix would be more expo on the rates. I usually go with 30% expo on everything except the elevator, which for me is always sensitive for some reason, either by the throws or the servo travel. On the elevator i like to dial up the expo to 45 even 50% depending on the model, seems to smooth things out a bit.
I am fully confident that the extra weight will not hinder but add to a better experience then going with the C pack radial, the extra weight in the motor alone will help with penetration and stability. If anything I would say run the C pack on 4s with a battery around the size of 3000-4000 mah to get the power and weight gain, plus longer flight times. If i run mine on 3s, even with the heavier motor, i have balanced it with a 5450 mah battery.
Are you using 3s and what size?
What prop are you using?
Where is your CG mark from your leading edge?
Geronimo
Active member
For batteries I have 2x - 3S 1800mah, another 3S 2200mah and a 4S 2300mah
The prop is 10 x 4.5 on a Surpass 2216 motor with a 40A ESC. I have a C pack motor on a FT MS Corsair and the Surpass 2216 feels a bit stronger, or at least the same. Definitely not under powered. I haven't tried the 4S in it yet, but based on the Corsair I think it's going to be crazy powerful.
The CG is just under 3" from the LE with the 1800mah battery (the chord of the wing at the root is just over 11"). It really sounds like the CG must be the issue. That's what it acts like, and from your answer you have the CG waaaaay up right near the LE. I can see where having a very low wing loading would make the CG super touchy. I'm used to 6-12 lbs gassers that needed that balance point shifted back most of the time.
I think loading up the nose with 2x batts and giving it a test will be interesting. I never would have guessed that a 6 ounce motor and a big battery like that would ever be the solution.
I really appreciate your answer @BATTLEAXE !!
BATTLEAXE
Legendary member
I would say, and again just from my experience, that if you went to a 10x5 or 10x6 on your 4S would be a good start. If your 10x4.5 is one of the slowfly props you get with a C pack kit, you might want to try the sport props or electric only props from APC, or even the Master Airscrew props. They are solid performers for the electric, if you are used to gassers this will start to bring the FB planes into that realm.
The CG on my wing is marked at the root at 25-33% of the wing chord, so two sets of marks, which happen to be 2.5" and 3" from the LE. I got it to balance with the 4s 2200 most of the way forward, and the 3s 5450 all the way back. Thing is, I haven't flown it yet. I have been out a transmitter for the past few months, plus I am just starting to get decent landing gear weather to fly my Spit. Tx will be on order by the end of the week, so flying will commence then, which is good cuz i have half a dozen planes to maiden lol
Geronimo
Active member
I did a thrust test on the motor with a 3S 1800mah battery and got 1.6 pounds (pulling straight down with a suspended spring scale). That's some crazy power!
Good luck with the maiden. My advice is to dial the control throws down to ~15 degrees on the elevator and ailerons, and run 30% expo at least. Wait for a calm day. The plane is flyable, but the super light wing loading makes it handle like a dry leaf on a windy fall day. Thankfully I don't have any damage to either of my FB planes yet. Talk about luck!
Here’s my attempt. The colors are a bit off, but thats all I had laying around. Used the Flightline 1200mm pilot, canopy and decals.
Attachments
BATTLEAXE
Legendary member
Hope it maidens as good as it looks
Maiden went very well! 4S 3000mah up front with power pack C. The wing is very “floaty” in the air (wing loading is really low), elevator at recommended settings was a bit much on high rates and aileron was anemic even by warbird standards - so I will do some tinkering there. The rudder is very effective and all speeds which is really nice.
For anyone about to maiden - 4S seems over powered when at WOT, but makes hand launches very easy. Rapid throttle application at low speed needs LOTS of SIMULTANEOUS right rudder application..........high up I tried snapping the throttle to full at near stall speed and it snap rolled into a pretty impressive spin entry - cut the throttle to idle and it basically self recovered - she has excellent directional stability
. If you need to go around from a balked landing you definitely want to ease the throttle stick in and not jam it in unless you are really confident with the rudder stick.
Also noticed that it glides forever on approach with throttle at idle, but be careful stretching the glide ‘cause when the wing decides to quit flying it happens all at once and without warning.
All in all this is a great flying warbird.
For anyone about to maiden - 4S seems over powered when at WOT, but makes hand launches very easy. Rapid throttle application at low speed needs LOTS of SIMULTANEOUS right rudder application..........high up I tried snapping the throttle to full at near stall speed and it snap rolled into a pretty impressive spin entry - cut the throttle to idle and it basically self recovered - she has excellent directional stability
. If you need to go around from a balked landing you definitely want to ease the throttle stick in and not jam it in unless you are really confident with the rudder stick.Also noticed that it glides forever on approach with throttle at idle, but be careful stretching the glide ‘cause when the wing decides to quit flying it happens all at once and without warning.
All in all this is a great flying warbird.
Geronimo
Active member
Rapid throttle application at low speed needs LOTS of SIMULTANEOUS right rudder application..........high up I tried snapping the throttle to full at near stall speed and it snap rolled into a pretty impressive spin entry - cut the throttle to idle and it basically self recovered - she has excellent directional stability
Also noticed that it glides forever on approach with throttle at idle, but be careful stretching the glide ‘cause when the wing decides to quit flying it happens all at once and without warning.
All in all this is a great flying warbird.
This sounds just like my experience. I can hand launch smoothly with a 3S 1800-2200 at half throttle and just an easy level toss with the wing canted to the right. Once you find that sweet spot, it's a breeze. The super light wing loading is borderline tragic in bumpy air. Turns can turn into snap slingshot turns without notice. For landing I bring it down as low and flat as possible. You can't decide to change direction once you commit to a line. If a turbulent wind bubble pops the wing up you really need to jump on the sticks to keep it out of a cartwheel. I only fly mine of flat calm days... or those with a steady light breeze.
Marty72
Elite member
Maiden went very well! 4S 3000mah up front with power pack C. The wing is very “floaty” in the air (wing loading is really low), elevator at recommended settings was a bit much on high rates and aileron was anemic even by warbird standards - so I will do some tinkering there. The rudder is very effective and all speeds which is really nice.
For anyone about to maiden - 4S seems over powered when at WOT, but makes hand launches very easy. Rapid throttle application at low speed needs LOTS of SIMULTANEOUS right rudder application..........high up I tried snapping the throttle to full at near stall speed and it snap rolled into a pretty impressive spin entry - cut the throttle to idle and it basically self recovered - she has excellent directional stability
Also noticed that it glides forever on approach with throttle at idle, but be careful stretching the glide ‘cause when the wing decides to quit flying it happens all at once and without warning.
All in all this is a great flying warbird.
Looks great! I appreciate the review. BTW, have you built/flown the original FT Spitfire? Looking for a comparison.
Geronimo - Flew again today with 8 gusting 12KT, it is definitely work with that much wind and I found I had to power it almost all the way to touchdown. The only way I can see to improve the gusty weather handling is to either add weight (maybe do surgery and add flaps and retracts), add battery (but I’m already at 4S 3000mah), or add a gyro.........Soooooo - I just swapped out my receiver for a Motionrc unit with a built in gyro. Hopefully it will be windy tomorrow and I can report back on any handling improvements.
Marty72 - Yes! The FT Spitfire could literally be used as a 4 channel trainer. Biggest difference is that the FT version will glide at idle to a landing with no sudden loss of lift. It flys a little slower with the same motor set-up, but overall it’s performance is similar........until you get it really slow. The FT has very docile stall characteristics and you can be a little sloppy with energy management at low speed without fear of it biting you. All that said, the overall fit and finish of the Masters Series bird is fantastic and both aircraft are very easy to fly. They are also both like a kite in a gusty with. So if you like your FT, you’ll love the Masters!
Marty72 - Yes! The FT Spitfire could literally be used as a 4 channel trainer. Biggest difference is that the FT version will glide at idle to a landing with no sudden loss of lift. It flys a little slower with the same motor set-up, but overall it’s performance is similar........until you get it really slow. The FT has very docile stall characteristics and you can be a little sloppy with energy management at low speed without fear of it biting you. All that said, the overall fit and finish of the Masters Series bird is fantastic and both aircraft are very easy to fly. They are also both like a kite in a gusty with. So if you like your FT, you’ll love the Masters!
shadeyB
Legendary member
Looks fantastic
Get the videos up and let’s hear your foam board roar ☺️👍
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ShadyB - here Ya go! I wouldn’t say mine screams though.
Geronimo - You can see the wind pushing it around a bit. Gusting to 10Kts this morning, but with the CG 2” back from the LE and the 3-axis gyro on it handles it much better. I used 1/2 gain on the rudder and filmed me punching the throttle wide open about 6” off the deck near the end of the video - you can see the gyro react (I didn’t even touch the rudder stick just to demonstrate how effective it is........trust me I tried it at altitude several times first). You can see how gusty the wind is when I launch the MiG at the end - it has no gyro and it’s wing loading is much higher than the Spit.
Cheers,
Mac.
). You can see how gusty the wind is when I launch the MiG at the end - it has no gyro and it’s wing loading is much higher than the Spit.Cheers,
Mac.
Marty72
Elite member
Great!, glad to hear it. Thanks for the input. I like the FT basic Spitfire very much, flies so very well. So specifically, what motor and prop are you running on this plane and you've only tried 4s? Yes, all the FT planes I've flown are like kites in the wind. I typically fly first thing in the morning, when there is little to none.
Marty72 - I’m running the Flite Test Power Pack C with a 10x4.5 prop right now. Has plenty of power. I would consider flying this bird on 3S, but I think the battery required to balance it would be huge unless you ran a heavier motor....... maybe in the range of a 4000mah pack. Mine balances with an Admiral 4S 3000mah all the way up in the nose. Of course you could always add lead to the nose for balance - she can definitely handle the weight.
bracesport
Legendary member
on my FT Spitfire I run a 1000kv motor, 9x6 prop, 3C2440 Lipo, AUW900g - flies well!
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