We Need a Flite School

The Hangar

Fly harder!
Mentor
Our local club has 2 fields now which we alternate between, (one is a sports ground which has seasonal fixtures). The local is 15 minutes away whereas the alternate is an hour away, (I ride a bicycle with a large trailer full of planes, tools, and parts). The alternate field means a number of hill climbs:rolleyes:. As for the wind we normally fly from dawn until the batteries are exhausted. Wind is lower at dawn here BUT I teach my students in all but the highest of winds so that they are able to fly when the weather is less than perfect. Actually a number of the oldies are amazed that my students prepare their planes and taxi out for their lesson when the oldies are too afraid to fly and are packing up to go home!

As for windy flying we do not fly RET models on windy days because they are to hampered by technical issues which are exacerbated by windy conditions. As you may be aware there were experiments done in the 1930s with the simple bomber idea of making bombers quicker and less complicated by making them RET only with massive dihedral. The idea was quickly abandoned when it was realized that they were only safe to use in the calmest of weather. Actually those club members with flying wings are normally the last to cease flying as the wind builds. Many times we have our KFM wing combat sessions near the end of the flying time when the wind is quite strong because no one else wants to fly anymore for the day.

If you want to tackle the wind and the "Learning aileron control" build yourself a series of wings, The arrow, Spear and even the KFM versions perform quite well as AET birds and can handle the wind better than most! Additionally if you want to fly on windy days do not build small and light because both will not handle wind very well!

As for your area if there is no local club get a few friends together and form one! I am sure you are not the only person interested in RC model aircraft in your area!

Have fun!
Is the versa good for wind? I built one a while back and it seemed to do pretty well in the wind but I haven’t flown it for a very long time.
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Is the versa good for wind? I built one a while back and it seemed to do pretty well in the wind but I haven’t flown it for a very long time.
Most wings do not have a long fuselage with a vertical stab upon it which actually causes a tendency to turn randomly in gusty conditions. Wings generally have their vertical stabs closer to the centre of gravity and of late a pair of them on the wing tips, (one each wing tip). With 2 stabs and them close to the line of the CG when viewed from the side the gusty wind is applied somewhat equally to each and so the turning effect is somewhat reduced. Normally they will wobble in yaw slightly when heading crosswind but otherwise you would not even notice the effect of the wind excepting for their tendency to seem to be "Crabbing" as they head crosswind down the field.

Here i supply my student with a KFM version so that they can fly something at almost any time! Part of being an instructor and mentor!

have fun!
 

Vimana89

Legendary member
Our local club has 2 fields now which we alternate between, (one is a sports ground which has seasonal fixtures). The local is 15 minutes away whereas the alternate is an hour away, (I ride a bicycle with a large trailer full of planes, tools, and parts). The alternate field means a number of hill climbs:rolleyes:. As for the wind we normally fly from dawn until the batteries are exhausted. Wind is lower at dawn here BUT I teach my students in all but the highest of winds so that they are able to fly when the weather is less than perfect. Actually a number of the oldies are amazed that my students prepare their planes and taxi out for their lesson when the oldies are too afraid to fly and are packing up to go home!

As for windy flying we do not fly RET models on windy days because they are to hampered by technical issues which are exacerbated by windy conditions. As you may be aware there were experiments done in the 1930s with the simple bomber idea of making bombers quicker and less complicated by making them RET only with massive dihedral. The idea was quickly abandoned when it was realized that they were only safe to use in the calmest of weather. Actually those club members with flying wings are normally the last to cease flying as the wind builds. Many times we have our KFM wing combat sessions near the end of the flying time when the wind is quite strong because no one else wants to fly anymore for the day.

If you want to tackle the wind and the "Learning aileron control" build yourself a series of wings, The arrow, Spear and even the KFM versions perform quite well as AET birds and can handle the wind better than most! Additionally if you want to fly on windy days do not build small and light because both will not handle wind very well!

As for your area if there is no local club get a few friends together and form one! I am sure you are not the only person interested in RC model aircraft in your area!

Have fun!
I actually did not know about any historical project to make full scale RET planes. I know bits and snippets of aviation history, but that is not one I'm familiar with. That's fascinating though, thanks for sharing! As much as I love RET RC planes, I have to agree that wind really exacerbates the Dutch roll, and presses up on the dihedrals a lot causing wing rock and whatnot(I've definitely flown enough RET to know). That was definitely a half-baked idea to try to make full scale bombers that way. As for learning ailerons, that is exactly what I'm currently working on.

I threw together a very easy delta. It has a high sweep and somewhat lower aspect, but is not particularly "slender" like my RET delta designs. It's more within the common range of scratch built deltas as far as wing proportion, but this is a tailed delta. The tail plane gives me nice pitch stability and a profile similar to some tailed delta fighters, and allows me to run smaller ailerons but a larger elevator, as I've had a lot of trouble with elevons so far. So far, it actually flies very well. It can climb and turn and fly fine at 50% throttle, and it banks nice and clean. I've had a couple nasty spirally stalls due to bad piloting like banking way too sharp at low speed. My first instinct was to cut power to soften the impact. Not optimal. Best way, counter-intuitively enough, is gun the throttle. Every time I've done that she breaks out nose level. I've also got the ongoing FTFC20 entry of the 1939 P.A. Special which has ailerons.

I'd like to try more planes with ailerons and even elevons soon. There is a very nice wider tailless delta wing called the Vee-Dette or something on Outerzone I've been looking at designing as FB and building, and I've also been considering making a (slightly) smaller size version of the KFM wing or buying a speed build kit of one of the FT wings. I can scale up my tailed delta, give it a beefy KFM wing, the right powerplant, and make sure I've got a wing loading more around 10 rather than something like 6. That would make a very wind resistant plane. As for a local club, I think I checked a while back and saw one downtown that's been around for a while. They had a few rules and stuff I wasn't familiar with, but sounded reasonable enough, and I believe I remember seeing that they have an area of the field where foamies specifically can be flown. Might actually be a decent experience.
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
I actually did not know about any historical project to make full scale RET planes. I know bits and snippets of aviation history, but that is not one I'm familiar with. That's fascinating though, thanks for sharing! As much as I love RET RC planes, I have to agree that wind really exacerbates the Dutch roll, and presses up on the dihedrals a lot causing wing rock and whatnot(I've definitely flown enough RET to know). That was definitely a half-baked idea to try to make full scale bombers that way. As for learning ailerons, that is exactly what I'm currently working on.

I threw together a very easy delta. It has a high sweep and somewhat lower aspect, but is not particularly "slender" like my RET delta designs. It's more within the common range of scratch built deltas as far as wing proportion, but this is a tailed delta. The tail plane gives me nice pitch stability and a profile similar to some tailed delta fighters, and allows me to run smaller ailerons but a larger elevator, as I've had a lot of trouble with elevons so far. So far, it actually flies very well. It can climb and turn and fly fine at 50% throttle, and it banks nice and clean. I've had a couple nasty spirally stalls due to bad piloting like banking way too sharp at low speed. My first instinct was to cut power to soften the impact. Not optimal. Best way, counter-intuitively enough, is gun the throttle. Every time I've done that she breaks out nose level. I've also got the ongoing FTFC20 entry of the 1939 P.A. Special which has ailerons.

I'd like to try more planes with ailerons and even elevons soon. There is a very nice wider tailless delta wing called the Vee-Dette or something on Outerzone I've been looking at designing as FB and building, and I've also been considering making a (slightly) smaller size version of the KFM wing or buying a speed build kit of one of the FT wings. I can scale up my tailed delta, give it a beefy KFM wing, the right powerplant, and make sure I've got a wing loading more around 10 rather than something like 6. That would make a very wind resistant plane. As for a local club, I think I checked a while back and saw one downtown that's been around for a while. They had a few rules and stuff I wasn't familiar with, but sounded reasonable enough, and I believe I remember seeing that they have an area of the field where foamies specifically can be flown. Might actually be a decent experience.
Firstly the KFM wing is simple to build and it refers to the wing profile and not a set model or design. Any plane can be build using a KFM wing profile. It actually can strengthen a wing and improve its lift quite simply BUT due to its profile being a little higher in drag, (when done simply), it is not suitable for the really slow flying models.

I will check out the Vee-Dette but my next big project will be a Spezi for a particular club member who wants to play with slow thermal soaring!

As for the local club I do encourage you to at least check it out properly though you may wish to build/buy a few conventional models or wings that the club members can recognize and help with. The vast majority will have no experience with slender deltas or at least no good experiences. Also remember that RET in large models is also something they will be wary of.

Once you broaden your experience you will find that there is enough variety in design to keep you busy for the remainder of your life. I am in my 60's and I am still trying new designs and learning heaps!

Have fun!
 

Vimana89

Legendary member
Firstly the KFM wing is simple to build and it refers to the wing profile and not a set model or design. Any plane can be build using a KFM wing profile. It actually can strengthen a wing and improve its lift quite simply BUT due to its profile being a little higher in drag, (when done simply), it is not suitable for the really slow flying models.

I will check out the Vee-Dette but my next big project will be a Spezi for a particular club member who wants to play with slow thermal soaring!

As for the local club I do encourage you to at least check it out properly though you may wish to build/buy a few conventional models or wings that the club members can recognize and help with. The vast majority will have no experience with slender deltas or at least no good experiences. Also remember that RET in large models is also something they will be wary of.

Once you broaden your experience you will find that there is enough variety in design to keep you busy for the remainder of your life. I am in my 60's and I am still trying new designs and learning heaps!

Have fun!
I have sort of placed the slender delta as a side project and don't intend to develop it more past its RET phase for a while. My current focus is definitely all about broadening my horizons. These are my current two successful aileron planes, the good prototype of the '39 special, and my new tailed delta, which does have a somewhat low aspec, but isn't a slender delta. The aspect ratio is more similar to certain tailed delta fighter jets and the f-117. These are great in mighty mini size range, but I'd have to scale them up to really get that wind resistance. Both would be fine with KFM, because they aren't really slow fliers, they are lower drag shapes that fly well fast but can still cruise well at modest speed. Other than that, like I've said, tons of options I've been looking at for ailerons and elevons.
 

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Vimana89

Legendary member
I will check out the Vee-Dette but my next big project will be a Spezi for a particular club member

Thw Spezi sounded familiar, so I looked it up. I actually had favorited that one off of Outerzone as well as several other designs. I really like the look of it, and it appears to use AET? Or does it use elevons(looks AET to me)? This is something I'd definitely be interested in.
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Thw Spezi sounded familiar, so I looked it up. I actually had favorited that one off of Outerzone as well as several other designs. I really like the look of it, and it appears to use AET? Or does it use elevons(looks AET to me)? This is something I'd definitely be interested in.
It actually is a flying wing in the old style of ailerons and elevator! A precursor to elevon mixing. The flat plate outer panels have the ailerons and the body has the elevator/s. Looking at making the outer panels removable for transport.

Anyway time to stop the hijack of the thread and return the topic to the flite school question which is definitely required but it would also need a dedicated team of mentors to make it work!

have fun!
 

Vimana89

Legendary member
To add to the original topic, I'd say we don't need so much a school, like a single, specific place where the FT guys or somebody they hire teach people how to build and fly electric foam planes and stuff. That could certainly be done, but it's more about the entire community, and the FT school of thought, rather than just a school. Picture it like a grass roots movement. The more people who take FT design, building, and flying philosophies and either start clubs, or spread those things to existing clubs, the more opportunities there will be for people to learn.
 
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The Hangar

Fly harder!
Mentor
To add to the original topic, I'd say we don't need so much a school, like a single, specific place where the FT guys or somebody they hire teach people how to build and fly electric foam planes and stuff. That could certainly be done, but it's more about the entire community, and the FT school of though, rather than just a school. Picture it like a grass roots movement. The more people who take FT design, building, and flying philosophies and either start clubs, or spread those things to existing clubs, the more opportunities there will be for people to learn.
Nicely said. Now off topic again😂. Have you ever built a warbird?
 

Vimana89

Legendary member
Nicely said. Now off topic again😂. Have you ever built a warbird?
Not yet. I've I have a Hobby Zone Micro T-28 RTF Trojan with safe mode which was way too easy and started crashing when I took it off. That was very early on, before getting my Champ. Its still in flyable condition but there is a nasty grinding noise from the motor gear. I haven't taken it out in a while, and probably should just to see how it still flies. I have considered a few warbirds from time to time, and have been humoring the idea again a bit lately. They are definitely some work from a design and build perspective, if I were making my own design of an existing historical war bird, or a made up one with a mishmash of features I liked, it would probably be a huge undertaking, because I'm not used to building planes with wing spars and air foils and stuff. My best bet would be to get in the war bird game would be an FT scratch build off plans or a speed build kit to start. I've heavily considered the MiG 3 and Spitfire. The Spitfire is very nice, it's a popular plane and has a huge fan base and iconic look, but I hear the MiG 3 is a great flyer too, and I haven't seen many people building or talking about it lately, so I'm curious.
 

Mozella

Member
Learning to fly RC isn't rocket surgery and there are many ways to get from A to B. Here are some considerations.
A flight simulator, even a free one, is a HUGE advantage. I like Real Flite and I recommend figuring out how to connect your actual transmitter to the simulator. Doing the right thing when the airplane is coming toward you (when the ailerons seem to be reversed) is the most difficult skill to master when starting out. A simulator will help with this problem.

A large, slow flying RC model , with a low wing loading is often a good starting place. It's easy to see, and that's good because flying too far away is common for beginners. Losing orientation is a common beginner problem and has caused countless crashes. But larger aircraft are more expensive and have more inertia so when you crash, you are more likely to cause damage than if you're crashing a small, light weight model. Like most things, size has it's trade-offs. These days inexpensive (often foam) trainers with stabilized flight systems tend to be a little smaller than trainers of years past. By flying slowly, they can be kept close in so the smaller size is not so much of a disadvantage.

Almost anyone at a club will toss information your way, so just ask for help. Finding a real mentor is harder. Finding a buddy box instructor is even harder unless your Dad also is involved in RC. I'd be happy to buddy box with any beginner but I'm not willing to buy an extra transmitter and spend time configuring it for buddy box use unless you are my wife (which you ain't). So, if you think flying with a buddy box is a good idea, buy your own second compatible transmitter, configure it properly, and bring it to the field. That way almost anyone will be willing to help you. You gotta' make it easy for a stranger to teach you how to fly. If anyone has to spend money and/or jump through hoops, it should be YOU, not some guy you ask to provide free private lessons.

Configure your plane with a "wings level" device. In my case, I use the FrSky stabilized receivers. I must have 15 or 20 of them. The three basic modes are off, stabilized, and wings-level. In wings-level mode, if you get in trouble and if you simply quit doing the wrong thing to the airplane, it will automatically fly straight and level. That is a HUGE advance for beginners and it is available at less than a $5 price premium if you use FrSky receivers. The same thing is available for almost every major manufacturer or can be retrofitted at slightly higher cost. Once you figure out how to fly, you'll want to fly in simple stabilized mode where the gyro takes some of the wobble out of airplanes, especially small ones on a windy day. Or, you might prefer off, for old school style flying. But the wings level mode is invaluable for hand launching. I launch many of my aircraft by simply tossing them into the air without much regard to attitude. The gyro instantly puts the plane into a wings level shallow climb and I can take my time getting my thumbs on the sticks. At my leisure I start flying the plane, switch from wings level mode to stabilized mode, and get on with the flight. YouTube is filled with videos of guys hand launching their airplanes right into the ground. That is never a problem if you have some kind of wings-level mode you can use during the launch. The level of stabilization can be adjusted on any of the various gyro systems. I like FrSky because I can adjust it in flight using a knob on my transmitter. Bottom line: Stabilized systems with some kind of "safe" or "training" or "wings-level" mode can make the learning process MUCH easier.

Some people claim there is a big difference between airplanes with ailerons compared with those with rudder only and lots of dihedral. In truth, it really doesn't matter, assuming if you fly with the rudder on an RET model hooked to the right stick (mode 2).
Move the right stick left when turning left and right when turning right. If you have ailerons and a rudder, you can feed in a little rudder to coordinate the turns, but you can just as easily forget about the rudder in most cases. A rudder is nice when you taxi and is required for good snap rolls, but when you're starting out you can pretty much ignore the difference between planes with ailerons and those without. Later on, you'll want rudder and ailerons for most airplanes, but not always. For example, I just finished building a combat plane without a rudder to save weight and cost.

Airfoils? Forget about the airfoil profile. Just use a slow flying, naturally stable, low wing loading trainer (which will automatically have a relatively thick airfoil) and you'll be fine no matter what the wing looks like.

In summary I would say that a simulator and a stabilized flight system (with some kind of wings-level mode) are, by far, the two must important factors when it comes to learning RC flying. Of course, it goes without saying that nothing will save you from crashing if you try to learn rudimentary flying skills by using a high wing loaded war-bird with a scale (thin) airfoil.
 

bracesport

Legendary member
Even my six-year-old son is getting better and better on the simulator, and it is a freebee on the iPhone - I use the AeroflyRC7 and it is really helping with my dream to slope! I started on the Fish and then the TT in two sizes (1m and 1.5m) can not rate them enough for some air time - I still crash, build, and then crash some more - I also have a couple of stabilisers but I have not tried them yet!

Phil
 

JUSS10

I like Biplanes
Just another option on this that I'm going to toss out there. I have recently become a horizon hobby flight school coach. We are tied to local AMA club fields and teach new pilots how to fly trainer planes that are sold by Horizon Hobby. I know the OP was regarding foam board planes, but if you go to this link: https://www.horizonhobby.com/content/flightschool?clickpath=homepage_espot2_10042019 you can search for a local coach in your area and connect with them via email and they may be willing to help you out even if you aren't flying a Horizon Hobby plane. That said, there are quite a few affordable options from Horizon Hobby in the trainer area. The new aeroscout that they are selling is a great deal at $200 for a plane, radio, battery and simple charger. I have one for training people on and it flies awesome. Its no slouch either, you can grow with it as your skill grows. I was even able to knife edge it the other day while in high rates with safe select off.

Just another option to look in to!

Justin
 
Similar problem I am a beginner with TT and I can not fly it for the life of me. I am looking in to some AMA clubs but It would be great to have ft clubs were people are more knowledgeable about certain planes and don't think foam board is "kidish"
 

The Hangar

Fly harder!
Mentor
Similar problem I am a beginner with TT and I can not fly it for the life of me. I am looking in to some AMA clubs but It would be great to have ft clubs were people are more knowledgeable about certain planes and don't think foam board is "kidish"
Did you build it as a 2 channel glider?
 

JUSS10

I like Biplanes
Similar problem I am a beginner with TT and I can not fly it for the life of me. I am looking in to some AMA clubs but It would be great to have ft clubs were people are more knowledgeable about certain planes and don't think foam board is "kidish"

Two things. Yes, some clubs aren't fans of electric planes or DIY foam ones. I guess I am very fortunate to be a part of a club that loves FT planes and they are just as common at our field as a big 1/4 scale gas plane. Reach out to some of the local clubs and you may find a few people in them that embrace the DIY foam planes. We have a core group in our club that really likes them and its growing because of that.

Next point, I don't like bashing the tiny trainer, but I really wish they wouldn't push it so hard as a trainer around here. Its small and rather squirrely in my opinion. I've built and flown a few as well as flew some that others built to try and get in the hobby and I personally think a larger FT plane is a better place to start. Something like a 3ch simple cub is better to me.

For the cost moving forward, I am really promoting the the Aeroscout from Horizon Hobby. Its a great deal with everything you need for $200. That's pretty tough to beat. I think its really great to get started on a known well built plane that is supposed to fly the way it should. Takes a lot of guess work out of whether something is wrong because the plane was built from scratch or if its piloting error. Getting to know a good flying plane first, and then moving on to building will help pilots get to know how a plane works, what feels right/wrong, and what needs to be done to get it to fly the way it should. Thats the route I wish I took in hindsight.

Justin
 

FoamyDM

Building Fool-Flying Noob
Moderator
@CarolineTyler did you guys have something about earning your wings? it was a set of tasks you had to be able to do... help us out.
My first flying milestone was to do two complete circuits and land.
Now I could see tackling something a tad more technical.
 

CarolineTyler

Legendary member
@CarolineTyler did you guys have something about earning your wings? it was a set of tasks you had to be able to do... help us out.
My first flying milestone was to do two complete circuits and land.
Now I could see tackling something a tad more technical.
It's all laid down on the BMFA's website. Levels of flying competency, starting at 'A' which is basically being able to take off, fly clockwise and anticlockwise circuits, square circuits, controlled figure eights, engine outs emergency landings and normal approaches and landings. Along with both air law, BMFA and club rules.