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What did you crash today

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Mentor
Sigh......
So this happened today;
View attachment 120471
Yea, there's about 8" of airplane missing off the front end of that....

But I REALLY don't think it was my fault!!...

You can see it here... (sory about the phone video, my gopro battery was dead...)

She took off, I climbed with no problem.
Started to turn right... It hesitated a bit....
Then as I was getting ready to turn back she "wobbled" and nosed straight in....
I had no control and couldn't stop it!...

At first, I thought, maybe I had reversed the controls, but I had checked everything out on the workbench at home and then I checked it when I got back home... It binds, but neither servo moves at all...

Anyone seen anything like this before?
Sadly I have seen such symptoms quite often!

It sounds like you had a LOS, (Loss of Signal). Here when club members fit Spectrum to their planes we give special warnings about making sure that the antenna wires are free from ALL other wires and mounted such that the antenna leads are at right angles to each other. In addition we do recommend that spectrum users use the Rx with the satellite antenna/Rx.

With a LoS the spectrum can take a fairly long time to reconnect and a very long time if the plane has SAFE or a flight controller.

Whilst I am only looking at symptoms it is something I get to see regularly especially among the newer pilots and trainees.

Have fun!
 
Now that im reading that, i have encountered the same problem (albeit on much smaller, much lighter umx planes). After putting the lid on the umx pt-17, i have to be careful not to let the antenna touch anything, because i’ve had signal cut out on me quite a few times from touching pushrods. And the AR610 does NOT like tight-fitting fuses where the signal wires cant be at right angles to each other.
 
While I DO appreciate your optimism, I really think we are talking replacement here...
Now... Maybe we are talking a foamboard fix?... maybe.... :unsure:
Hehe, depending on how much heart you want into it, you could make a very beautiful new nose with some planned out shaping on the fb. Im thinking lots of score-cuts, and about three sections :unsure:
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Mentor
Sigh......
So this happened today;
View attachment 120471
Yea, there's about 8" of airplane missing off the front end of that....

But I REALLY don't think it was my fault!!...

You can see it here... (sory about the phone video, my gopro battery was dead...)

She took off, I climbed with no problem.
Started to turn right... It hesitated a bit....
Then as I was getting ready to turn back she "wobbled" and nosed straight in....
I had no control and couldn't stop it!...

At first, I thought, maybe I had reversed the controls, but I had checked everything out on the workbench at home and then I checked it when I got back home... It binds, but neither servo moves at all...

Anyone seen anything like this before?
Sadly I have seen such symptoms quite often!

It sounds like you had a LOS, (Loss of Signal). Here when club members fit Spectrum to their planes we give special warnings about making sure that the antenna wires are free from ALL other wires and mounted such that the antenna leads are at right angles to each other. In addition we do recommend that spectrum users use the Rx with the satellite antenna/Rx.

With a LoS the spectrum can take a fairly long time to reconnect and a very long time if the plane has SAFE or a flight controller.

Whilst I am only looking at symptoms it is something I get to see regularly especially among the newer pilots and trainees.

Have fun!
 

d8veh

Well-known member
Sigh......
So this happened today;
View attachment 120471
Yea, there's about 8" of airplane missing off the front end of that....

But I REALLY don't think it was my fault!!...

You can see it here... (sory about the phone video, my gopro battery was dead...)

She took off, I climbed with no problem.
Started to turn right... It hesitated a bit....
Then as I was getting ready to turn back she "wobbled" and nosed straight in....
I had no control and couldn't stop it!...

At first, I thought, maybe I had reversed the controls, but I had checked everything out on the workbench at home and then I checked it when I got back home... It binds, but neither servo moves at all...

Anyone seen anything like this before?
Did you do your mandatory pre-flight checks, i.e. test that all control surfaces are moving correctly immdiately before launch?
 

kilroy07

Well-known member
It sounds like you had a LOS, (Loss of Signal). Here when club members fit Spectrum to their planes we give special warnings about making sure that the antenna wires are free from ALL other wires and mounted such that the antenna leads are at right angles to each other. In addition we do recommend that spectrum users use the Rx with the satellite antenna/Rx.
That is what I now suspect... The receiver seemed to bind erratically... This is my second plane flying on Spektrum, is this really a common occurrence?... (I "thought" i was "Upgrading" from my FlySky radios...) The compartment is crammed with a BUNCH of wires so it's very possible that one was running across an antenna lead (and until now, I wasn't aware to look out for that...) it does not have a satellite receiver, I'll look into adding one if I can get a replacement fuselage...

Did you do your mandatory pre-flight checks
Yup, it's off frame, but she climbed out just fine (plenty of power!) I leveled her out, entered a right turn all just fine... Then it wobbled a bit and nosed straight in.... I did have it a tad nose heavy, so if it did in fact lose signal then I would expect a nose down attitude...

Sigh... well, at least she fits in a smaller box now! :LOL:
I'll probably set her aside for awhile... might try to repair her for FF 2019, but I'm a tad depressed looking at her now.

Thanks for all the help (and support) guys!

I guess the take away is to pay attention to antenna placement (and add a satellite!)
 

Paracodespoder

Well-known member
My ft edge. It’s a funny story actually, I was running low on battery and came in for a landing but I was to high, so I went to do another circuit. I had the elevator throw on high and neede it on low at the same time, so my left thumb went to the rate switch. I pushed up on it to lower the rates, at the same time I need to pull up on the elevator. My hands were cold and numb, so instead of both doing their own thing, they did the same thing and I pulled down on the elevator resulting in a nose in crash. Luckily it wasn’t too bad of a crash as I was about 10 feet up. Damage is limited to the firewall and the front nose area, it should only take about a half hour to fix, so not to bad!
 

Bricks

Well-known member
It happens to all radio systems LOS doesn`t matter if it is Spektrum or FrySky. At our club we have roughly 50 pilots and all but one flies Spektrum and we have not seen any problem with brownout or LOS. The early DSM2 would give problems once in a while if there was a ton of planes in the air at once.

Most of the time LOS is blamed it usually is because of poor set up of electronics Many new pilots get Spektrum radios because they are great radios and easy to use compared to some. Being new there setups may not be optimal and also being new pilots there flying skills are not up to par so many times a crash happens the plane gets the blame.

I have roughly 50 planes from gassers to electric and not a one has a satellite receiver in them not saying that's good just I have never had a problem from radio reception. Usually it is dumb thumbs or flying a plane to slow which results in the death spiral.
 

kilroy07

Well-known member
Usually it is dumb thumbs or flying a plane to slow which results in the death spiral.
Did you happen to view the video?
I've got no problem admitting my mistakes, but you can clearly see it's not flying slow enough to stall, right around :26 I was attempting to turn her left when it just nosed down and crashed...

Now, was that caused by something grounding out the antenna? Quite possibly so.
However, in the 2nd video It seems to bind (3 short beeps) but the servos don't react and there's no orange light...
Later, it bound just fine... so I am not sure what that indicates...
(Obviously it was bound fine at launch, or it never would have climbed....)

Thinking about it, this sounded like a problem @CarolineTyler had with her LongEZ... Was your system Spektrum too?.... (just curious)

As I said, I'm just trying to figure out what happened... If (after watching the video) you think I was dumb thumbing it or stalled then I welcome the observation... That's why I try to video each flight, so I can learn from the mistakes... ;)
 

Bricks

Well-known member
That was nothing against you or your flying abilities my apologies if you think it was. It was just a general statement from what has been seen at our club along with poor setups.

The list of things that can go wrong are endless to out right blame a certain protocol over all the others just bugs the heck out of me especially when they do not know for sure what happened. You defiantly have a hardware problem somewhere as it would not rebind right away but then it did could be BEC, wire connection, bad receiver, a bad wire someplace with a bad end on it connection came loose ( I have done this one myself to my shegrin ), until the cause is found nobody really knows even the person blaming Specktrum
 

kilroy07

Well-known member
No offense taken. ;)

Just didn't think it was my fault (this time...) :rolleyes:

However, because of this, I've learned I need to pay more attention to where the antenna is placed.
I was aware to keep carbon fiber away and try to arrange the two leads 90 degrees apart, but I was not aware that wires (or push rods) could cause issues as well... And to be honest, this was a bind and fly, so I just assumed everything had been checked... (I now know better!)

And IF (just maybe) Spektrum is a little more "finicky" than my cheaper flysky, I'll just learn to live with that. :p

One thing I like about this community (and this thread in particular) is if someone doesn't have a club to mentor them then they can come here and get ideas/suggestions.

We may never know the particular issue that brought down my Radian, but it's "only" $40 for a replacement fuselage (and I enjoy challenges) and now I know a few things to look out for.

So she will fly again (knock on wood) and hopefully the next time for longer than a minute!! :ROFLMAO:

Again, Thanks everyone for help & suggestions!
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Mentor
Do not get the idea that I am against spectrum radios or is our club but the standard antennas on a standard Rx are very short and easily lost in a crowded fuselage. When a satellite Rx is fitted the satellite can be mounted remote from most of the wiring/batteries/ESC, Etc. Which is why we push the use of the satellite Rxs especially for newbie pilots who usually just cram everything in and close the hatch.

Spectrum radios are generally quite good though a little dated in both tech and features.

Have fun!
 

d8veh

Well-known member
When you arrive at the flying field with a new plane, you should always do a range test, then remember to put your transmitter back into normal flying mode. That will eliminate most installation issues and RF transmission problems. If your receiver antenna was masked by a control rod, that would show in a range test.

Did you do a range test?
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
Mentor
A static ground test where the plane is level may give a good connection but as the planes attitude to the antenna changes it can be shielded by internal structures and wires if the Rx is not installed such that the antennas are clear and at 90 degrees to each other.

The reason being that most modern transmitters have a dual antenna arrangement, effectively one for vertical polarization and one for horizontal polarization. The Rx antennas normally Rx strongest at 90 degrees to the angle they are positioned BUT will Rx ZERO if either end of the antenna is pointing directly at the transmitter. In this condition The second Rx antenna being at 80 degrees to the first CANNOT be pointing at the Tx and therefore getting good signal. If both antennas point in the same direction or at the same angle then if they both point at the Tx then neither gets a Rx signal. It the Rx antennas are at 90 degrees but one is buried in the wires and other things that can block the Tx signal then at a particular orientation of the plane, (with Rx antenna pointing at the Tx then a LoS will definitely occur. Sorry if this upsets anyone but simply it is a LAW of Physics and Radio Propagation. Do a search on Antenna polarization and its effects when antennas are at different polarizations. Also do a search on radiated field strength on a Marconi antenna or even a dipole antenna, as well as the radiation patterns associated with the aforementioned antenna types.

Range checks at ground level can even be good when both Rx antennas are buried as there are numerous and multi-polarization reflections from the ground and nearby objects, (in effect multiple sources and directions of signals). In the air, the ground and other reflections disappear rapidly, and a LoS can and will occur.

If there was no possibility of having a LoS if the Rx passed a range check on the ground then the feature of the Spectrum Rxs that actually can inform you of the number of losses of signal that have occurred in flight would be a pointless feature and a waste of memory space!

Just a little bit of very basic antenna and propagation theory from my early trade training made into plain speak!

Have fun!
 

Headbang

Well-known member
Yesterday it was a FT Mig-3. Belly landing on uneven hard ice and snow. Ripped the motor mount off the power pod. Simple fix, just build a new power pod!
 

Bricks

Well-known member
The second Rx antenna being at 80 degrees to the first CANNOT be pointing at the Tx and therefore getting good signal. If both antennas point in the same direction or at the same angle then if they both point at the Tx then neither gets a Rx signal. It the Rx antennas are at 90 degrees but one is buried in the wires and other things that can block the Tx signal then at a particular orientation of the plane, (with Rx antenna pointing at the Tx then a LoS will definitely occur.

If this is as you stated as LOS will definitely occur if this was absolute as you claim then I do not believe there is an RC airplane that would live thru it`s first flight with just the receiver for reception. How many millions are flying around with only receiver antenna`s. Most newer transmitters have 2 antennas built into the radio at 90 degrees to each other. Proper setup is the best bet to keep things alive and flying everyone agrees with that..
 

d8veh

Well-known member
If this is as you stated as LOS will definitely occur if this was absolute as you claim then I do not believe there is an RC airplane that would live thru it`s first flight with just the receiver for reception. How many millions are flying around with only receiver antenna`s. Most newer transmitters have 2 antennas built into the radio at 90 degrees to each other. Proper setup is the best bet to keep things alive and flying everyone agrees with that..
I'm thinking something similar. It's certainly true that your signal strength can be optimised by correct positioning of the antennae, but I would say (mainly guess) that there's a bit of urban myth associated with all that. For most Flitetest planes that we fly at relatively short range, I'd be very surprised if that would cause problems, though obviously it would be best to install the antennae correctly if you can. We can invent any plausible theory, but the more we add to it, the less likely it becomes. I would say that the cause of your problem is something a lot simpler.

I use the cheapest Orange DSMX receivers with my Jumper transmitter, and I've never cared too much about antenna positioning. I've not had a single range problem with them. My Spektrum transmitter failed every range check I did because it's faulty, but I got the best results when I screwed up everything (AR6200, satellite and servo wires) into a ball and stuffed them in a tiny space. They told me I'd done it wrong and that was the cause of my problem, so I did some modifications to get everything installed like in the textbook. When I tested again, my range had been halved!

I ask again whether you did a range check. If you did a range check, did you remember to switch back to normal mode? My plane did exactly the same as yours when I forgot.

Just so that you can see where I'm coming from, I spent most of my working life as a quality manager in the automobile industry, where defects are taken very seriously, so we always needed to find the cause. What I learnt was that the more complicated the theory, the less likely it was to be the cause. In nearly every case, the cause was something simple and logical. I could tell you stories all day about these things. I was going to write a book about it.
 
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PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
Mentor
I have always poked a toothpick size hole out of the bottom of the plane (geared craft only) and one 90 degrees out over the top of the wing. Then slide the antennas out those holes enough to see all of the exposed core.

Never had a plane fail safe. Of course with my crappy pilot skills I have never gone far nor high enough for that to happen so...
 

rockyboy

Skill Collector
Mentor
I have always poked a toothpick size hole out of the bottom of the plane (geared craft only) and one 90 degrees out over the top of the wing. Then slide the antennas out those holes enough to see all of the exposed core.

Never had a plane fail safe. Of course with my crappy pilot skills I have never gone far nor high enough for that to happen so...
On most planes I like to tape my antenna inside the fuse with one pointing back at the tail and one pointing to the sky so they stay aligned at 90 degrees to each other, and I've never had a radio problem in the air with those setups.
 

kilroy07

Well-known member
No, no range check... Sorry... Will add that to my checklist (especially with new planes.)
A bit naive I guess, but I just expected it to fly... :cautious:

I do recall that one antenna went down the fuselage, not sure about the other... Again, I did not spend too much time looking at the wiring.

I still see it "false" bind every so often... where I plug it in and get three beeps, but then nothing (no orange light and no response from the servos or motor)... It's maybe once every ten times... and seems to be the first or second time... the receiver is a AR636A, radio is the DX8 (G2) I updated the firmware as soon as I received it (last month.) to date I've only flown two planes on it, the wildcat (also ar636a) and the Radian.
So, is that an indication that there might be an issue with the receiver or radio, or is it just something to expect/check?

I have heard that you want to hold the radio a ways away from the radio when turning on, is that arms length, further?...
I typically have it 2-3 feet away I guess... Plane on tailgate, radio in hand.

The wildcat flew just fine, no issues... (knock on wood)

It is hard to know if wiring was an issue as it landed right in the middle of the road so I just paused long enough to snap the photo before I scooped up all the pieces and tossed it the back of the truck. Nothing had pulled apart, but several bits were obviously misaligned after the crash... all the connections seem tight though, nothing loose, no nicks in wires. Noticed last night that the battery took a hit too (wrinkled nose) I think it's fine, but it's obvious it hit with some force.

Have not checked voltage coming off the BEC yet... Any other suggestions?

Replacement fuselage is on backorder, not sure if that means 2-3 weeks or months....