What is everyone's opinion of the new FT radial motor?

[Kendalf]

EDIT: Forgot to say that the weight numbers are also accurate. The Radial with the prop nut, wires, and bullets is 56g compared to 51g on the Turnigy with its prop mount included. So the 2212 size is probably not great for a mini

How is the Turnigy (28mm diameter, 26mm long) approximately the same weight as the 2212 FT Radial?

 

[AkimboGlueGuns]

How is the Turnigy (28mm diameter, 26mm long) approximately the same weight as the 2212 FT Radial?

I'm guessing just the fact that it's an older design. If you're talking about the NTM series I think even the V.2 models have been out for the better part of 2 years.

 

[Vimana89]

Personally I don't see the appeal. I have nothing wrong with flite test stuff but for a company that focuses on affordable rc flying these motors sure are expensive. I don't see what the problem is with the current motors they are using. Anyone else?

Same. The current motors are fine from what I've seen, and I'm all for improving on a design, but I have no clue how the radials could be that much better. The warranty is nice. I guess time will tell. In the mean time though, I'm opting for sticking with my original A pack, and using Graupner motors as well, because they are cheap and high performance.

On second look, people are testing and comparing with favorable results. These motors are something I would strongly consider on a high performance build when I get better, but for the time being I'm quite content with what I have.

 

[Headbang]

How is the Turnigy (28mm diameter, 26mm long) approximately the same weight as the 2212 FT Radial?

Turnigy measures the case, the radial measures the stater.

 

[Kendalf]

Turnigy measures the case, the radial measures the stater.

Which measurement is more standard? Makes it hard to shop for motors when a 2826 from one brand is equivalent to a 2212 from another!

 

[Headbang]

Which measurement is more standard? Makes it hard to shop for motors when a 2826 from one brand is equivalent to a 2212 from another!

Stator is the standard on high quality and larger motors. But to compare any motor it is better to look at watts, amps, and kv. Also look at wieght. Wish I could say there is a real easy way to compare. Even 2 motors rated exactly the same can be drastically different, rarely are manufactures truthful about specs.

 

[Vimana89]

I'm no expert on these things yet, so my philosophy is to ask around, look at peoples' real world experience with a given product. These new radial motors for example, I like the idea, but I'm not going to shell out for one until people much more experienced than I have thoroughly tested and reviewed it. So far, everything is looking promising with the radials, but I'm going to give it some more time, because for where my skill level is at right now, the stuff I'm using works just fine and the price is right.

From what I've seen so far of Flite Test, I highly doubt they would make a product that wasn't worth the asking price. That said, I'm still cutting my teeth, and have no real reason yet to buy an exceptionally high performance motor. When that time comes, however, I'll consider these radials, and by then more people should have thoroughly tested them.

 

[nschmoker]

Remember when brushless first came out? Hackers with gearboxes? AXI Model Motors outrunners first came one the scene. Easy 50 dollars. Hackers even more. We are definately spoiled. Same with lipos. Remember Thunder Power. These ARE the good ole days.

 

[Mad_Mechanic]

I guess I will chime in on this discussion and add some knowledge (and numbers) of my own.

For the last week I have been 'reverse engineering' the Power Pack C components. I'm an engineer by day so this is what I do. I made a spread sheet for each component part: Motor, ESC, Servo, Propeller. Then I started to comparison shop for equivalent parts.

@Kendalf - I understand your pain regarding inconsistent motor sizing numbers, this is an issue I have been fighting for the last week trying to populate my spreadsheets. However, what I can tell you is that this is an issue pretty much isolated to HobbyKing's offerings (Turnigy, HobbyKing, etc). Pretty much everywhere else I looked online, brushless motor manufacturers will label their motors by stator diameter and stator height.

With that said, what seemed to start this thread was a feeling that the new FT "Radial" line seemed expensive. I too had a little bit of sticker shock or heartburn looking at a $30 price for the FT Radial Power Pack C motor, the 2218B.

However, as I have been filling out my spreadsheet and trying to compare the various specs of motors here is what I've learned.

#1 - Comparing any motor from HobbyKing to any motor from pretty much any other brand is very difficult. Pretty much every other brand will publish a standardized set of information. This includes the normal stuff like Kv rating but also figures for peak/max current and power (W). The last bit of key information is a prop size chart or list. About the only time you won't get a prop size list from a reputable manufacturer is if the motor is intended solely for helicopters.

#2 - This bit has already been mentioned in this thread, but I would like to back it up with more data. The FT "Radial" series is actually very competitively priced. With the 2218B sitting at a $30 price point, it is firmly in the middle of the competition for up front cost. The EMax GT2215/10-1100Kv motor (standard with Power Pack C) can be bought for $18.99 from Amain Hobbies. The next motor I found that I felt comfortable with the data is from HobbyKing and is the Aerodrive SK3 - 3530 which costs $27.

Next is the FT Radial 2218B at $29.99
Then comes a Cobra Motors C2217/16 at $30.99
Next is a T-Motor, the AT2312 "Long Shaft" at $34.99

The last two on my current spreadsheet are from Scorpion, and if you recognize that brand you already know Scorpion = $$$$.

So the last two entries I have for comparison are the Scorpion SII-2212-1070KV (V2) at $49.99 and the Scorpion SII-2215-1127KV (V2) at $54.99!

All of the motors I have just listed will (or should) swing a 10x4.5 or 10x4.7 slow fly prop with a 30A ESC, but the key point here is price. FT have priced the Radial series competitively from what I have seen. They are not trying to throw their name around and gouge us on price, and at the same time the product seems to be high quality and it sounds like the warranty is top notch. And a good warranty is hard to come by these days.

My 2-cents and I hope it helps. Spreadsheets and research are what I do (my friends think I'm broken because of my love for spreadsheets).

 

[FDS]

That spreadsheet needs to be on this forum....

 

[Headbang]

I guess I will chime in on this discussion and add some knowledge (and numbers) of my own.

For the last week I have been 'reverse engineering' the Power Pack C components. I'm an engineer by day so this is what I do. I made a spread sheet for each component part: Motor, ESC, Servo, Propeller. Then I started to comparison shop for equivalent parts.

@Kendalf - I understand your pain regarding inconsistent motor sizing numbers, this is an issue I have been fighting for the last week trying to populate my spreadsheets. However, what I can tell you is that this is an issue pretty much isolated to HobbyKing's offerings (Turnigy, HobbyKing, etc). Pretty much everywhere else I looked online, brushless motor manufacturers will label their motors by stator diameter and stator height.

With that said, what seemed to start this thread was a feeling that the new FT "Radial" line seemed expensive. I too had a little bit of sticker shock or heartburn looking at a $30 price for the FT Radial Power Pack C motor, the 2218B.

However, as I have been filling out my spreadsheet and trying to compare the various specs of motors here is what I've learned.

#1 - Comparing any motor from HobbyKing to any motor from pretty much any other brand is very difficult. Pretty much every other brand will publish a standardized set of information. This includes the normal stuff like Kv rating but also figures for peak/max current and power (W). The last bit of key information is a prop size chart or list. About the only time you won't get a prop size list from a reputable manufacturer is if the motor is intended solely for helicopters.

#2 - This bit has already been mentioned in this thread, but I would like to back it up with more data. The FT "Radial" series is actually very competitively priced. With the 2218B sitting at a $30 price point, it is firmly in the middle of the competition for up front cost. The EMax GT2215/10-1100Kv motor (standard with Power Pack C) can be bought for $18.99 from Amain Hobbies. The next motor I found that I felt comfortable with the data is from HobbyKing and is the Aerodrive SK3 - 3530 which costs $27.

Next is the FT Radial 2218B at $29.99
Then comes a Cobra Motors C2217/16 at $30.99
Next is a T-Motor, the AT2312 "Long Shaft" at $34.99

The last two on my current spreadsheet are from Scorpion, and if you recognize that brand you already know Scorpion = $$$$.

So the last two entries I have for comparison are the Scorpion SII-2212-1070KV (V2) at $49.99 and the Scorpion SII-2215-1127KV (V2) at $54.99!

All of the motors I have just listed will (or should) swing a 10x4.5 or 10x4.7 slow fly prop with a 30A ESC, but the key point here is price. FT have priced the Radial series competitively from what I have seen. They are not trying to throw their name around and gouge us on price, and at the same time the product seems to be high quality and it sounds like the warranty is top notch. And a good warranty is hard to come by these days.

My 2-cents and I hope it helps. Spreadsheets and research are what I do (my friends think I'm broken because of my love for spreadsheets).

Most of my planes use Motrofly from subsonic planes (Americian assembled and wound). On paper there is no reason to think a hobby king motor would be any different then these. In reality, it is night and day. They are expensive, but in the air I feel I get what I pay for. And I continue to buy them. I have used a lot of motors, have a notebook full of data that proves the "feeling" I get in the air is not just in my head. Exactly the same applies to batteries. Gens ace are very noticeably better then nanotechs, and you pay for it.

 

[Mad_Mechanic]

That spreadsheet needs to be on this forum....

I can probably figure out how to make that happen. I'd like to polish/refine it a bit more first though 😅

 

[eeck62]

I have yet to try them, but I do intend to try them for my next round of planes. The comments seem negative on the cost. By Flite Test making these motors now there are three more motors on the market that were previously not there. If you like them buy them, if you don't then don't buy them. It is capitalism and possibly progress. I am thankful someone took the effort to make a new motor that could potentially make my enjoyment of the hobby greater.

 

[Mad_Mechanic]

If anyone is interested in seeing the spreadsheet I have been working on to compare the various Power Pack C parts to alternatives on the market, I have added a view link in my signature. It's a google doc and the link should allow you to view the spreadsheet.

Parts that are included in the Flite Test Power Pack C are highlighted in CYAN.

When comparing motors, there are certain things I look for in manfacturer's literature. Some key things are if the manufacturer recommends a 10in prop size (as Power Pack C comes with 10x4.5 props). I also look at the motor's weight, Kv rating and power (watts) rating. I also look to make sure the recommended ESC is a 30A or that the peak Amp rating is below 30A. You will notice that there are only a couple motors from HobbyKing listed. This is primarily because of the issues I have mentioned in previous posts about HobbyKing's abnormal methods for declaring motor size. Therefore, I just don't feel comfortable including a lot of motors from HK on the list.

The other categories like propellers, ESC/BEC and servos were much easier to populate. The Servo list is quite long with most of the entries being from HobbyKing. This is perhaps one category that needs more offerings from other manufacturer's/suppliers.

If people find this information useful, I can look at doing spreadsheets for Power Packs A and B. My decision to start with Pack C was based on the fact that I'm planning to build a Pack C sized plane soon so I wanted to see what was out there that I might need or want to buy.

NOTE: I'm offering this spreadsheet with the intention to provide information to others here on the forum. The intention is NOT to "prove a point" regarding the value of the FT Radial motors. On the contrary, as I have stated in previous posts I believe the FT Radial engines are fairly priced based on the stated specs.

 

[nschmoker]

Great job Mad_Mechanic. Have you ever checked out the flybrushless.com site? 660 different motors. rcgroups has multiple threads dedicated to the testing of motors . . . from an engineering point of view.

 

[Mad_Mechanic]

@nschmoker - I have not seen that website before, I'm going to check that out tonight when I get home.

I might also see if I can dig up the rcgroups test threads, that might help me to populate the sheet.

 

[CapnBry]

How is the Turnigy (28mm diameter, 26mm long) approximately the same weight as the 2212 FT Radial?

I bought it during the Cyber Monday sale from hobbyking for just $9 and was also very surprised that it wasn't 2826 sized and that they measure the motor external size instead of the stator. It is still a pretty decent Power Pack B ballpark motor but shouldn't go over 9x4.7 on 3S due to the power limit. I have a 10x4.7 slowfly prop I should have tested the Radial with before I mounted it in my FT Explorer, but I am pretty sure the 2212 size should be able to handle it (assuming the 9" takes 81% of the power of a 10").

Thanks @Mad_Mechanic as well for posting your spreadsheet. I find myself struggling sometimes to find compatible parts in the same ballpark and end up just googling size after size after size to see if I can find hits.

 

[Mad_Mechanic]

@CapnBry - Spreadsheet research (as tedious as it tends to be) is something I find therapeutic at times. It's kinda fun to me to go searching for items and see what it out there.

I might get motivated to start on a Power Pack B spreadsheet here soon if people would find it useful.

 

[CapnBry]

I was swapping my FT Explorer power pod to a version that can swing a 9" prop and took the opportunity to redo the thrust tests. This time instead of using a 3S battery pack, which loses a little voltage every test and therefore makes it difficult to compare results across runs, I used a 30A 12VDC power supply set to ~3.82V/cell. The power then runs through a 50mOhm power resistor to simulate battery impedance and allowed me to calibrate the ESC current measurement as well. I am still confused how the 8045 prop pulls nearly identical top end power but only generates 92% of the thrust. Every other throttle position across the board is more efficient on the 9047. Results run several times are <0.5% variation.

 

[Bricks]

I am a little confused on your results that the 8045 prop pulls the same RPM`s as the 9 inch prop? Refresh my memory how to figure AMPS pulled while under load.