What is the future of the FTCA

Tench745

Master member
Flite Test is stretched incredibly thin for the breadth of what they have their hands in, additionally they are currently undergoing "personnel adjustments" which may or may not be visible to the viewing public. i.e. Grace is requested and helpful.

As for the insurance topic ... I think FT should stay as far away from that as possible. Being an FAA officially recognized CBO is all we need as hobbyists. Personal responsibility for our flying operations is the best way to ensure safe and fun flying for all.

I can understand wanting to hold back anything official until ducks are in a row, but an occasional, official "Hey, we're still here and still working on things," Goes a long way.
It's like when I worked in retail, if you had to put a customer on hold you checked in with them every couple minutes to keep them with you even if you didn't have anything new to tell them yet.
 

Piotrsko

Master member
Since, by the remarks I see, none of you have dealt with a federal government's typical rate and style of response, the FTCA is doing marvelous by simply posting every blue super moon.

My favorite saying from a fireman: when stuff is on fire, you ain't got time for prevention except to keep it from making things worse.
 

bisco

Elite member
i guess when i found flite test how to videos online, i was very impressed, purchased a lot of parts and built a lot of models.
maybe it has outgrown me, since the videos ended and all this new stuff has dominated, of which i have no interest.
i'm glad the forums are still around though, love seeing what people are creating!
 

Draftman1

Active member
I’m sure a few of us are loosing interest in the FTCA program and waiting if FT picks up the master series line. No new announcements from FTCA 3 or 4 months before my membership expired for me and then the same after the auto renew.
Something needs to be said from somebody, end of my membership just might be the last.

I’m taking mine off of auto renew. I’m not paying money to an organization that has been silent basicly for the last 6 months
 
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fliers1

Member
I can't even get a reply. I offered to help them with recruiting new members using my mass and rapid growth technique, but I guess they are doing so well, that they feel they don't need my help.
 

fliers1

Member
Proactive hope for the hobby

FT would be the perfect venue for the use of my mass and rapid growth technique, where they would be able to easily train people to fly RC airplanes and at the same time be training people to be competent instructors using this technique. Mass and rapid growth in the hobby/sport would be assured. FT would be an RC flight instructor/promotor production machine. It will take vision and imagination. Lacking those two attributes will be why this growth program would be ignored. It would be a 4 hour drive to Lockport, NY for someone to come for me to teach them my revolutionary technique. It would only take about an hour, and probably less to learn this technique.
 

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JFC24

Member
Proactive hope for the hobby

FT would be the perfect venue for the use of my mass and rapid growth technique, where they would be able to easily train people to fly RC airplanes and at the same time be training people to be competent instructors using this technique. Mass and rapid growth in the hobby/sport would be assured. FT would be an RC flight instructor/promotor production machine. It will take vision and imagination. Lacking those two attributes will be why this growth program would be ignored. It would be a 4 hour drive to Lockport, NY for someone to come for me to teach them my revolutionary technique. It would only take about an hour, and probably less to learn this technique.
Speaking from my personal standpoint, the barrier to entry in this hobby isn't training, especially since there are no original mistakes in flight training. From the easy to build kits that FT creates to the Horizon Hobby RTF models flying these things has never been easier.

The biggest barrier is at the local level since the median age in the hobby gets one year older each year and the younger generation is having a hard time finding "friends" in the hobby. If I add up the youth members in the clubs I have our boys in, I barely count a dozen kids.

FT does an exceptional job of youth outreach, we meet more kids in an hour at FF than we do all year. Their model is the only way I see this hobby surviving.

It's quite possible that the FT guys are building the brand and growing the hobby the best way they see fit and not intentionally giving you the slight. Give them the benefit of the doubt and maybe they will be able to work you into the fold as their envelope expands.
 

fliers1

Member
Speaking from my personal standpoint, the barrier to entry in this hobby isn't training, especially since there are no original mistakes in flight training. From the easy to build kits that FT creates to the Horizon Hobby RTF models flying these things has never been easier.

The biggest barrier is at the local level since the median age in the hobby gets one year older each year and the younger generation is having a hard time finding "friends" in the hobby. If I add up the youth members in the clubs I have our boys in, I barely count a dozen kids.

FT does an exceptional job of youth outreach, we meet more kids in an hour at FF than we do all year. Their model is the only way I see this hobby surviving.

It's quite possible that the FT guys are building the brand and growing the hobby the best way they see fit and not intentionally giving you the slight. Give them the benefit of the doubt and maybe they will be able to work you into the fold as their envelope expands.
Please read the entire message. Too many always say it's not training that's the problem, but my message is to train people to become instructors/promoters to get more people interested in the hobby, youth outreach. The more people who know how to teach, the more people who will be eager to get people to offer the public a test flight. Using my technique, within an hour of instruction, most will be able to give someone else RC flying experience on an RC flight simulator to get them excited about learning more about the hobby. Hands-on mass marketing. Teach the teachers in schools. There are 98,000 public schools in the US alone. Hobby shop owners will not have to depend on someone else to bring in more customers, he will be able to give customers RC flying experience on a simulator kiosk if he was to learn my technique. If I claimed to have a cure for cancer, the first thing that people would demand was to prove it, but that hasn't been the case for my unique promotion/training technique to help the RC industry. I wonder why?
 

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JFC24

Member
Please read the entire message. Too many always say it's not training that's the problem, but my message is to train people to become instructors/promoters to get more people interested in the hobby, youth outreach. The more people who know how to teach, the more people who will be eager to get people to offer the public a test flight. Using my technique, within an hour of instruction, most will be able to give someone else RC flying experience on an RC flight simulator to get them excited about learning more about the hobby. Hands-on mass marketing. Teach the teachers in schools. There are 98,000 public schools in the US alone.
I did read the post and all of your attachments.

Access to instruction is not the issue, giving kids a reason to be excited about something is. Lots of people in this hobby are skilled at many things and have also been teaching a long time.

My point was to please be patient.
 

fliers1

Member
I did read the post and all of your attachments.

Access to instruction is not the issue, giving kids a reason to be excited about something is. Lots of people in this hobby are skilled at many things and have also been teaching a long time.

My point was to please be patient.
This isn't the first time people have not comprehended the point I'm trying to convey and I know it won't be the last. First of all, Too many have rated flight instruction as not all that important, but without enough readily available eager-to-teach instructors the hobby cannot grow.

I ran an RC flight school for over 10 years and trained over 400 people, many traveled several hundred miles to pay me to give them what they couldn't get in their clubs and gave them "free" instruction. Dave Scott has been making a great living because of so many clubs failing to satisfy their club members. In many clubs, the subject of RC flight instruction scares the bejesus out of them. That comes from many of the beginners I trained. BTW, Mr. Scott shares my position. Imagine all clubs had a multitude of flight instructors all able to teach people to fly skillfully and land within an hour of their very first RC flying experience and then all of those new RC pilots were able to convince others to get into the hobby and join clubs. AMA would not have a problem recruiting and retaining members.
 

JFC24

Member
This isn't the first time people have not comprehended the point I'm trying to convey and I know it won't be the last. First of all, Too many have rated flight instruction as not all that important, but without enough readily available eager-to-teach instructors the hobby cannot grow.

I ran an RC flight school for over 10 years and trained over 400 people, many traveled several hundred miles to pay me to give them what they couldn't get in their clubs and gave them "free" instruction. Dave Scott has been making a great living because of so many clubs failing to satisfy their club members. In many clubs, the subject of RC flight instruction scares the bejesus out of them. That comes from many of the beginners I trained. BTW, Mr. Scott shares my position. Imagine all clubs had a multitude of flight instructors all able to teach people to fly skillfully and land within an hour of their very first RC flying experience and then all of those new RC pilots were able to convince others to get into the hobby and join clubs. AMA would not have a problem recruiting and retaining members.
I think if multiple different audiences are not comprehending the message then it might be time to examine which barrier to communication is causing the breakdown; Maslow's triangle and all that jazz. I've spent thousands of hours teaching people to fly everything from Cessnas to unmanned ISR platforms to tactical jets in low-level formation over the last 21 years so I also know a thing or two about imparting knowledge. I'm not failing to comprehend anything. In fact, I would happily argue that having 10,000 instructors for zero students will not create a net gain for the hobby.

The model you are championing is the model I've seen at both of our local clubs, Triple Tree, and FliteFest. The brain of an engaged child is so elastic that they'll pick up anything once they are excited about it. When my son first started learning it was very hard for me to stay in my lane as "finance and logistics" and let the experts teach him how to solo the plane I got him, but I did and he has thrived (in about an hour). It was difficult, but I checked my ego as required. The best part is now when he is at a fly-in and a kid comes up with questions, before you could blink my 11 year old has the new kid standing with him and flying the plane. It all starts with the expectations you set.

It is not my intention to belittle you or devalue your experience so please do not take my comments as negative. Our job as teachers is to be the professional student and be willing to self-critique as necessary and I think you could do well with some introspection. Since my son has discovered FT we have found it to be a place of kindness, fellowship, and joy so again, please assume the FT folks are working from a good place and not intending to cast others aside.

They're doing great work, neither of my boys would be into this hobby if it weren't for them...Actually, having said that and looking at my bank account, maybe I should be mad at them too.
 

fliers1

Member
I wish I knew what the barriers are, but since I get the same treatment in my own club, they need new members and club instructors aren't all that enthused about teaching yet they refuse to send beginners to me even though I'm listed as an instructor. The barrier very well could be, doing the stressful chores of giving flight instruction. In my 50 years of introspection in the hobby, I've never won this argument. And yet the AMA is down 30,000 or more members and lost $30,000,000 in the last 20 years and loses over $700.000 annually and MAAC is only hanging on by a thinning thread, they're down from 14.000 to 8000 members, but hey, who needs more flight instructors/promoters to attract more members? I was told by several club members that their club instructors told them, "If you bring in new members, you train them and don't send them to me." No doubt you and I have different perspectives and this discussion will never be settled. Those 10,000 aren't doing their jobs if they can't convince people to get into the hobby. I have no trouble getting people to fly my trainers, but being 77 I'm running out of steam and obviously, I can't do it alone. My main focus is on the big picture and not just a club or two. That's probably the barrier.

Here's how MAAC is doing.

Whelp... board meeting minutes from Sept 9 the financial update said revenues are down by~$40,000 (about the revenue from 500 open members) AND some budget lines are over. With a budgeted loss of ~346,000 we could be seeing a loss of close to $400,000. (if we look at last year's actuals for reference of 'good performance' against budget, then we are still looking at a $300,000+ shortfall)
Looking at the revenue reported. 8,000 members is likely 1250 juniors and 6,750 open members.
Dues increases are $15 for open and no change to juniors... so... about $100,000 more revenue... if the membership numbers stay the same. (They won't... 2024 was the final year for members who paid 3 year memberships just before the exemption was pulled.)
But assuming they do.... 3200 additional open members would be needed to balance the budget with no change in spending.... the changes in spending have to be drastic and reflect the mission and vision of the association.
  • Probably time to re-evaluate the management company.
  • Magazine has overstayed its welcome, but professional communications with the members will still have a cost.
  • Paying directors to go to events they would normally go to?
  • RPAS Centre / RPAS Wilco (how much does that actually cost MAAC)
  • FAI travel money in general, or at least spending to repeat team members who show no signs of improvement? (at least some sort of performance criteria)
 
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LitterBug

Techno Nut
Moderator
I wish I knew what the barriers are, but since I get the same treatment in my own club, they need new members and club instructors aren't all that enthused about teaching yet they refuse to send beginners to me even though I'm listed as an instructor. The barrier very well could be, doing the stressful chores of giving flight instruction. In my 50 years of introspection in the hobby, I've never won this argument. And yet the AMA is down 30,000 or more members and lost $30,000,000 in the last 20 years and loses over $700.000 annually and MAAC is only hanging on by a thinning thread, they're down from 14.000 to 8000 members, but hey, who needs more flight instructors/promoters to attract more members? I was told by several club members that their club instructors told them, "If you bring in new members, you train them and don't send them to me." No doubt you and I have different perspectives and this discussion will never be settled. Those 10,000 aren't doing their jobs if they can't convince people to get into the hobby. I have no trouble getting people to fly my trainers, but being 77 I'm running out of steam and obviously, I can't do it alone. My main focus is on the big picture and not just a club or two. That's probably the barrier.

Here's how MAAC is doing.

Whelp... board meeting minutes from Sept 9 the financial update said revenues are down by~$40,000 (about the revenue from 500 open members) AND some budget lines are over. With a budgeted loss of ~346,000 we could be seeing a loss of close to $400,000. (if we look at last year's actuals for reference of 'good performance' against budget, then we are still looking at a $300,000+ shortfall)
Looking at the revenue reported. 8,000 members is likely 1250 juniors and 6,750 open members.
Dues increases are $15 for open and no change to juniors... so... about $100,000 more revenue... if the membership numbers stay the same. (They won't... 2024 was the final year for members who paid 3 year memberships just before the exemption was pulled.)
But assuming they do.... 3200 additional open members would be needed to balance the budget with no change in spending.... the changes in spending have to be drastic and reflect the mission and vision of the association.
  • Probably time to re-evaluate the management company.
  • Magazine has overstayed its welcome, but professional communications with the members will still have a cost.
  • Paying directors to go to events they would normally go to?
  • RPAS Centre / RPAS Wilco (how much does that actually cost MAAC)
  • FAI travel money in general, or at least spending to repeat team members who show no signs of improvement? (at least some sort of performance criteria)
The biggest problem is getting people interested in the Hobby, not the training. I tried to get my Son into it almost a decade ago, and only ended up getting myself drawn in. So I still ticked up the count by one, but wished it would have been 2. His thing was Golf for the longest time and I supported him with what HE wanted to do. Built him his own putting green in the back yard, caddyed for him, etc...

I share videos, invite people out to the field, etc... People think it is really cool, but there just isn't the interest there was back in the day with all the other forms of "entertainment". It is easier to get somebody out on a bike, a hike, or a kayak than it is out to the field to fly. When I fly FPV, I have a "passenger" monitor so anyone around can see what I see. Helped some of the "old timers" be OK with drones and Plane FPV when the saw things from a different perspective. I fly at a non-traditional AMA field. We all just fly for fun. No meetings, no overbearing rules, just everyone play safe, play nice, and get along.

So I come here to the Forums and help the people that want help, Go to the field and Fly, and go to FliteFest to fly and help people who want/need help.

Stay active in the hobby and be a friend to everyone interested in our shared hobby!

Cheers!
LitterBug
 
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fliers1

Member
The biggest problem is getting people interested in the Hobby, not the training. I tried to get my Son into it almost a decade ago, and only ended up getting myself drawn in. So I still ticked up the count by one, but wished it would have been 2. His thing was Golf for the longest time and I supported him with what HE wanted to do. Built him his own putting green in the back yard, caddyed for him, etc...

I share videos, invite people out to the field, etc... People think it is really cool, but there just isn't the interest there was back in the day with all the other forms of "entertainment". It is easier to get somebody out on a bike, a hike, or a kayak than it is out to the field to fly. When I fly FPV, I have a "passenger" monitor so anyone around can see what I see. Helped some of the "old timers" be OK with drones and Plane FPV when the saw things from a different perspective. I fly at a non-traditional AMA field. We all just fly for fun. No meetings, no overbearing rules, just everyone play safe, play nice, and get along.

So I come here to the Forums and help the people that want help, Go to the field and Fly, and go to FliteFest to fly and help people who want/need help.

Stay active in the hobby and be a friend to everyone interested in our shared hobby!

Cheers!
LitterBug

When I ran my hobby shop, what many customers who claimed they weren't interested in the hobby were saying was they were certain they would crash and some even came right out and said that. So, I had a Real Flight simulator in the store and insisted that they allow me to give them a few minutes of flight training using my unique training technique. Our flying field was just a couple of miles away and convinced them to come out and "watch" me fly, a trick I learned long ago. Once the plane was in the air I suggested that they stand next to me while I flew. I then asked them to hold the tx and to put their finger on top of the elevator/aileron stick and I put my thumb and forefinger under their thumb. That way we could feel what each other was doing, kinesthetic tactile flight training. Using the buddy box usually scares the bejesus out of newcomers. No one has ever said that I was invading their space and I'm not hugging anyone. I've been successfully doing this way for several decades and everyone I've trained was able to land skillfully within 30 minutes of their first-ever RC flying experience. They are learning how to use these methods to convince others to get into the hobby. Please read this over at least a couple of times. Some tend to miss the pertinent parts of my explanation of how flight training can grow the hobby/sport. The Instructor link shows why you and many modelers feel that flight training doesn't work to promote the hobby.
 

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Twnspin

New member
Just wondering what anyone might suggest.
I've been out of the hobby for a few years. Joined a club went flying 3 times in the last month and was asked if I would consider becoming president of the club. Seems like a struggling hobby to me... or at least a struggling club.

How best to handle this situation?

The club has 25 members and members seem to be happy where they are at.

Yet I feel there is a time coming soon that the youth attracted by homeschooling programs, middle school programs, flitetest ideas, etc might benefit this club, And if you wait too long... it dies in a generation...

What IS the future of the FTCA?