What is the point of tuning PIDs?

[pungbjoern]

Did you see the Lux Float PIDs that FGA gave to Narco that I used on my tri-copter?

Those should get you in the ball park and are likely better than stock.

When I crash at home, I hit the vegetable garden or one of my wife's flower gardens which are mined with invisible (to an FPV cam) tomato cages. I fly in horizon mode a lot at home. Rotors are expensive. Cutting down Bobbi's roses costs me a trip to the jewelry store...

I saw someone's lux float pids given to someone by someone, in some other thread. I have someones lux float pids on profile 2, and someone else's PIDC3 pids on profile 3 =)
I just haven't been able to fly them, as my frame was broken. Fingers crossed for deliver tomorrow.
There should be a repository for these things, as opposed to random threads and youtube video comments everywhere.

 

[cranialrectosis]

Someday, we will successfully convince a pilot (instead of a mathematician) to explain it completely so we can sticky it sort of like the sticky at the top of this forum for MultiRotor Top Tips.


I will tell you this. If you keep breaking props and recharging batteries anyway, one day, it will just 'click'. Once that happens, you are in real danger of becoming addicted.

I loved Berlin. I saw the two greatest live concerts ever there.

50,000 people swaying back and forth shouting 'Tear down the wall'.

Then this one. One of the pinnacles of human civilization; on Christmas day no less.

Beautiful city. Helluva party!

Seid umschlungen, millionen! Diesen kus der ganzen welt!

Life changing day. Helluva party! I hope it is still as beautiful a city today.

Sorry to digress. Back OT.

Breaking copters is typical by the way. Many of us started out with wood frames so we could repair them easily. There are now small, carbon fiber frames (much more expensive) that are VERY hard to break. I was crushed when I smashed my Anycopter to bits in front of the pretty girl I was trying to impress. Less so when I had it rebuilt in an hour in time for dinner with my wife. Perspective is EVERYTHING.

If this is your first build, I recommend a Blackout or Alien or WarpQuad frame if you can afford it or a medium sized wood frame like an Electrohub. You are going to bash the copter all to blazes so either go tough or go cheap. 3D printed plastic frames, nylon, plastic, fiberglass or lazer cut plywood that breaks easily and requires specialized parts (unless you can make the parts yourself) don't make good learner/basher copter frames.

 

[jhitesma]

Off topic I know but....

I loved Berlin. I saw the two greatest live concerts ever there.

50,000 people swaying back and forth shouting 'Tear down the wall'.

What I wouldn't give to have been able to attend that! I had just learned about Pink Floyd a few years before that concert (though, let's be honest...it was more a Roger solo show than a Floyd show ) and have been a huge fan since. In fact...just got my tickets Saturday night to see David in LA next March :applause: Saw him last tour at the Gibson, would have loved to go to one of the Hollywood bowl shows...but holy sticker shock on the ticket prices! So the Forum it is next year


Ok...back to multis now....

 

[pungbjoern]

Someday, we will successfully convince a pilot (instead of a mathematician) to explain it completely so we can sticky it sort of like the sticky at the top of this forum for MultiRotor Top Tips.


I will tell you this. If you keep breaking props and recharging batteries anyway, one day, it will just 'click'. Once that happens, you are in real danger of becoming addicted.

I loved Berlin. I saw the two greatest live concerts ever there.

50,000 people swaying back and forth shouting 'Tear down the wall'.

Then this one. One of the pinnacles of human civilization; on Christmas day no less.

Beautiful city. Helluva party!

Seid umschlungen, millionen! Diesen kus der ganzen welt!

Life changing day. Helluva party! I hope it is still as beautiful a city today.

Sorry to digress. Back OT.

Breaking copters is typical by the way. Many of us started out with wood frames so we could repair them easily. There are now small, carbon fiber frames (much more expensive) that are VERY hard to break. I was crushed when I smashed my Anycopter to bits in front of the pretty girl I was trying to impress. Less so when I had it rebuilt in an hour in time for dinner with my wife. Perspective is EVERYTHING.

If this is your first build, I recommend a Blackout or Alien or WarpQuad frame if you can afford it or a medium sized wood frame like an Electrohub. You are going to bash the copter all to blazes so either go tough or go cheap. 3D printed plastic frames, nylon, plastic, fiberglass or lazer cut plywood that breaks easily and requires specialized parts (unless you can make the parts yourself) don't make good learner/basher copter frames.

I've already chosen to go cheap. I get my frames at 14 EUR per, so that's not an issue. Propellers are also cheap, but I have a feeling I'll blow much more money on propellers than frames. I'm flying diatone 5030 propellers that I get for about 50 cent per propeller. If I could get that down to 20-25 cent, I'd grouse less about it...

As for Berlin, you're all welcome here any time! =)

 

[Basscor]

took a more informed look at the PID values it gave me and my P gains were fine (I think) at 17 for Roll and 22 for Pitch, which makes sense as it isn't a symmetrical quad. But the I gains seemed ridiculously high: 93 for Pitch and 88 for Roll. D for Roll was 3.5 and Pitch was 4.5

Do these numbers seem right for an Emax nighthawk w/ emax 1806s?

also I have maxed out the rates (425) and have expo at 60 but it still has a little more trouble flipping then I would expect with the rates that high. Would that be related to the high I gain?

 

[cranialrectosis]

took a more informed look at the PID values it gave me and my P gains were fine (I think) at 17 for Roll and 22 for Pitch, which makes sense as it isn't a symmetrical quad. But the I gains seemed ridiculously high: 93 for Pitch and 88 for Roll. D for Roll was 3.5 and Pitch was 4.5

Do these numbers seem right for an Emax nighthawk w/ emax 1806s?

Did you tune in horizon mode?

Are you running a Naze32 Acro with Cleanflight and PID controller 3?

 

[Basscor]

I am running a CC3D with Tau in acro mode

 

[jhitesma]

That sounds really high all around. I think I'm running around a 4 or 5 on P for my emax nighthawk with stock simon series ESC's and 1806's and even that feels kind of high still with some occasional vibrations.

But which board/firmware and PID controller are you using?

 

[Basscor]

as far as the P's it isn't oscillating at all so I figured it was fine. I am running a CC3D on the latest firmware. Not sure on the PID, just using the advanced tab on the stabilization settings, so Tau PID controller? As far I know I am not using the MultiWii emulator

 

[cranialrectosis]

Ahhh Tau. Beyond me for at least another week.

 

[jhitesma]

Oh wait...missed that you're on Tau

That's on the basic screen I assume? Then those numbers sound reasonable. I don't remember what I was at on mine with Tau on my naze32...I was using the advanced screen so 20 looks more like 0.00020 but it looks like those are pretty close to what I was running:

I didn't write down what I finally settled at though and I've reflashed to CF on that build since. But it sure sounds like you're in the ballpark.

 

[Basscor]

Haha how could you miss that? It's your fault I'm in Tau! haha

That aside, yeah the P seems fine, but I find that the I seems really high, thoughts?

And yeah on the basic it is 19 and then in advanced it has extra zeros 0.00019 etc

 

[Craftydan]

Ahhh Tau. Beyond me for at least another week.

Hurry up. you're missing out

 

[Spastickitten]

What's a tau? Seriously though, what are the benefits of tau, and how do I get it?

 

[Basscor]

Here ya go: http://taulabs.org/

read up!

 

[Ludodg]

slightly off topic.
I run Cleanflight on a naze32.
how is a CC3D with Tau compared to that?
Is there a reason to switch? AFAIK they both are cheapo FC's

 

[Ludodg]

back on topic ...
I read this topic and thus read that a lot of you tune their PID-settings.
Any advice to a PID-tune-noob?

I read:
1: Tune I and D down to 0
2: fly/test the quad and move the P up untill oscilations (big, slow), then tune down a bit untill those oscilations are gone
3: Tune I up untill fast oscilations then back off again.
4: Tune D up untill ????


but I also read somewhere:
1: Tune I and D down to 0
2: Tune P up untill oscilations then down a notch
3: Finetune with D
4: Tune I up untill the quad becomes stable, it keeps the position you asked for.

I have a Taranis and might try to set the PID's through some buttons on my transmitter on the field as I saw somewhere in a vid ...
but I'm not sure of the tuning-procedure ... and a little scared to go messing with the pid-settings this first time
any practical advice mucho apreciato :

 

[Ocean]

back on topic ...
I read this topic and thus read that a lot of you tune their PID-settings.
Any advice to a PID-tune-noob?

I read:
1: Tune I and D down to 0
2: fly/test the quad and move the P up untill oscilations (big, slow), then tune down a bit untill those oscilations are gone
3: Tune I up untill fast oscilations then back off again.
4: Tune D up untill ????


but I also read somewhere:
1: Tune I and D down to 0
2: Tune P up untill oscilations then down a notch
3: Finetune with D
4: Tune I up untill the quad becomes stable, it keeps the position you asked for.

I have a Taranis and might try to set the PID's through some buttons on my transmitter on the field as I saw somewhere in a vid ...
but I'm not sure of the tuning-procedure ... and a little scared to go messing with the pid-settings this first time
any practical advice mucho apreciato :

This will help

 

[jhitesma]

Haha how could you miss that? It's your fault I'm in Tau! haha

Crazy day for me and I'm bad with names Just finished fixing the last issue on my list for this huge project I've been consumed by since February! :applause: Of course I still have to work all weekend preparing the documentation in anticipation of a big reveal Monday morning.

That aside, yeah the P seems fine, but I find that the I seems really high, thoughts?

Does sound high...but I'll have to try and review my video again to see what I was running...can't quite do that at the moment

And yeah on the basic it is 19 and then in advanced it has extra zeros 0.00019 etc

That was what really threw me. 19 sounded crazy stupid high I never use the basic screen so I forgot it rounds them like that!

 

[Craftydan]

slightly off topic.
I run Cleanflight on a naze32.
how is a CC3D with Tau compared to that?
Is there a reason to switch? AFAIK they both are cheapo FC's

As if that's ever stopped us

CC3D on Open Pilot was disappointing. On Tau, very comparable to Cleanflight -- arguably "better" in some ways. The Autotune actually worked, and the "Axis lock" feature (Acro that uses the accelerometers to hold angle instead of holding level), is a neat flight mode . . .

. . . but IMO not enough to be worth switching over. New build, worth a try. if you've got money to throw at an old build, I guess, but if you're happy with cleanflight, there's no reason to switch (and if you're not happy, a CC3D probably won't fix that )