What's the important point for a 3d printer beginner
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WillL84
Active member
As a beginner you shouldn't be worrying about any of that stuff. The only thing that really matters is bed size - make sure the bed is big enough to print the things you want to print. A nice Ender 3V2 or even the new Ender 3 S1 are both great beginner printers and have pretty common 220x220x250mm print areas. Also down the road if you need to print bigger there's always the Ender Extender kits to increase print area. I've yet to need more print area. You can also design your models to print in several parts which helps.
Klipper is definitely not a beginner thing. Get a printer, use it stock for a while, print some upgrades for it (usually a better part cooling fan is a good first one). Then once you're comfortable with it look into things like Octoprint or Klipper, etc. I've got a Pi 3b+ running Octoprint and it's mint. I've been thinking of making the upgrade to Klipper but I don't really print enough to feel it's worth it for me personally. I would like to add a touch screen to my pi though so I can run the printer without needing to connect to Octoprint via a PC or my phone.
Klipper is definitely not a beginner thing. Get a printer, use it stock for a while, print some upgrades for it (usually a better part cooling fan is a good first one). Then once you're comfortable with it look into things like Octoprint or Klipper, etc. I've got a Pi 3b+ running Octoprint and it's mint. I've been thinking of making the upgrade to Klipper but I don't really print enough to feel it's worth it for me personally. I would like to add a touch screen to my pi though so I can run the printer without needing to connect to Octoprint via a PC or my phone.
tamuct01
Well-known member
I went with reliability and started with a Prusa i3 Mk2. It's a little more expensive than the Chinese clones but is very reliable with a great out-of-the-box experience. Prusa support and documentation are second to none. The Mk3s have been out for quite a while and are great machines.
stephenleeeyan
New member
If I am going to purchase my first printer, I think printing quality and printing speed are the most important things. But I find that many printers lose the quality if they go with high speed. So I am going to find a machine which can do high printing speed and high speed at the same time.
quorneng
Master member
stephenleeyan
3D printing is a big complex subject so there is a lot to learn. Yes you can probably print something simple fairly easily but there are many adjustable variables that can effect the print quality. Its not so much the printer itself as how you drive it.
Printing requires two features if you want to create an object yourself.
A computer aided design programme to create an object in electronic form. This than has to be converted into a file that a slicer programme can convert into a sequential but long set of instructions that the printer can follow.
The printer itself has many settings (hundreds!) some of which you may have to 'adjust' to get the best print quality.
You can obtain a 'slicer ready' file (an stl file) but note there are several slightly different slicer programmes and the settings for a good print can depend on the model of printer or even the type of filament that you are using.
There is a lot to be said for buying one of the most popular printers. It may not have the ultimate 'bells and whistles' but its very popularity will ensure there is plenty of on line advice available to help solve specific problems.
3D printing is a big complex subject so there is a lot to learn. Yes you can probably print something simple fairly easily but there are many adjustable variables that can effect the print quality. Its not so much the printer itself as how you drive it.
Printing requires two features if you want to create an object yourself.
A computer aided design programme to create an object in electronic form. This than has to be converted into a file that a slicer programme can convert into a sequential but long set of instructions that the printer can follow.
The printer itself has many settings (hundreds!) some of which you may have to 'adjust' to get the best print quality.
You can obtain a 'slicer ready' file (an stl file) but note there are several slightly different slicer programmes and the settings for a good print can depend on the model of printer or even the type of filament that you are using.
There is a lot to be said for buying one of the most popular printers. It may not have the ultimate 'bells and whistles' but its very popularity will ensure there is plenty of on line advice available to help solve specific problems.
buzzbomb
I know nothing!
My first printer was a used Ender 3 Pro. It's still a really good printer. I recently upgraded to a Ender 3 S1. It's a better printer and can do a lot, right out of the box. Since I've been printing for a few years, it can do a lot more. I upgraded it to the all metal hotend and I haven't looked back.
3d printing is a hell-hole of a rabbit-hole buried deep inside the whole (spelt correctly) of your wallet. You can literally spend just as much as you have available and then you'll spend more to make it better. The same can be said of your time.
The upside is, you can get something like the the Ender series pretty cheap and print most of the parts you want for upgrading. Learn significantly just from printing those parts and it just gets better and better until you're printing little things for your car or around the house.
Expect to do a lot of research reading, watch a lot of youtube videos and have a lot of patience for trial and error.
As to your specific question? For a first printer I would say price is the driver, but you've got to be careful. You can get really bad printers, really cheap. If the arm with the printhead hangs off of one side? Bad. The more I think about it, there are just too many variables to go into everything you need to avoid.
Core XY is pretty much industry standard along with Marlin and Cura. Everything else may be better (open for debate), but that selection is about usability, learning curve, cost and longevity. You can spend tons on a resin printer, have to run dedicated ducts for the noxious fumes, use protective gear for the residue and print really, really nice little miniature figurines. (I'm generalizing. Resin printers are awesome for what they do, but they're limited as to what they can do.)
Down the road, you might want an enclosure. You really only need one for printing things like TPU and the like, that need to stay hot throughout the printing process.
It is a rabbit-hole, but it is an enjoyable and satisfying rabbit-hole. I wanted an extension on my walking cane. I went into Tinkercad and laid it out and printed it. A claw so that same cane can hang off of a desk? Same. Little grommets for the bumper of my car. Those little push-button connectors for all the plastic on your car? Yep, printed them. Hooks for cables and shelves. Bag clips and mask straps and electrical boxes and light switches and outlet covers and, and, and, and.
I can only speak from my personal experience, but I got into this pretty cheap and though I've spent money on it, it's only ever been money well spent.
My suggestion is get used Ender 3. It should be around 100 bucks. You want the Pro series of that printer. The "Y" rail is wider and that is better. If you're buying a new printer, I would say spend the money on the Ender 3 S1 Pro. You'll be happy later on that you got the all metal hotend.
Something like a Prusa is a superior printer to the Creality Ender which is a Chinese company that simply produces an inexpensive, openly-sourced, product. But superior in this hobby is measured in microns and minutes.
I hope that helped.
TLDR: Yeah, after re-reading it, that's a lot. Just get a Ender 3 S1 Pro, and you'll be happy if you're willing to spend the time to learn how to use one of these things. Later, you'll want an enclosure. That's pretty much it.
3d printing is a hell-hole of a rabbit-hole buried deep inside the whole (spelt correctly) of your wallet. You can literally spend just as much as you have available and then you'll spend more to make it better. The same can be said of your time.
The upside is, you can get something like the the Ender series pretty cheap and print most of the parts you want for upgrading. Learn significantly just from printing those parts and it just gets better and better until you're printing little things for your car or around the house.
Expect to do a lot of research reading, watch a lot of youtube videos and have a lot of patience for trial and error.
As to your specific question? For a first printer I would say price is the driver, but you've got to be careful. You can get really bad printers, really cheap. If the arm with the printhead hangs off of one side? Bad. The more I think about it, there are just too many variables to go into everything you need to avoid.
Core XY is pretty much industry standard along with Marlin and Cura. Everything else may be better (open for debate), but that selection is about usability, learning curve, cost and longevity. You can spend tons on a resin printer, have to run dedicated ducts for the noxious fumes, use protective gear for the residue and print really, really nice little miniature figurines. (I'm generalizing. Resin printers are awesome for what they do, but they're limited as to what they can do.)
Down the road, you might want an enclosure. You really only need one for printing things like TPU and the like, that need to stay hot throughout the printing process.
It is a rabbit-hole, but it is an enjoyable and satisfying rabbit-hole. I wanted an extension on my walking cane. I went into Tinkercad and laid it out and printed it. A claw so that same cane can hang off of a desk? Same. Little grommets for the bumper of my car. Those little push-button connectors for all the plastic on your car? Yep, printed them. Hooks for cables and shelves. Bag clips and mask straps and electrical boxes and light switches and outlet covers and, and, and, and.
I can only speak from my personal experience, but I got into this pretty cheap and though I've spent money on it, it's only ever been money well spent.
My suggestion is get used Ender 3. It should be around 100 bucks. You want the Pro series of that printer. The "Y" rail is wider and that is better. If you're buying a new printer, I would say spend the money on the Ender 3 S1 Pro. You'll be happy later on that you got the all metal hotend.
Something like a Prusa is a superior printer to the Creality Ender which is a Chinese company that simply produces an inexpensive, openly-sourced, product. But superior in this hobby is measured in microns and minutes.
I hope that helped.
TLDR: Yeah, after re-reading it, that's a lot. Just get a Ender 3 S1 Pro, and you'll be happy if you're willing to spend the time to learn how to use one of these things. Later, you'll want an enclosure. That's pretty much it.
TPU requires an enclosure? I've not had any problem printing with it, other than a little bit of stringing here and there. Granted, I'm printing it on a Prusa that I inherited from my father after he passed away, so maybe that's it? I honestly didn't know you were supposed to print in an enclosure with TPU...ABS, I knew that required an enclosure, and while it's to keep a consistent temperature, it's also for the fumes that are toxic.
Now I wonder if I should build an enclosure out of some LACK tables from IKEA like I've seen so many people do for their printers...Then again, I don't print a ton in TPU, so maybe it's not something I need to worry about?
I will tell you that I bought a cheap printer from Monoprice as my first printer - the Monoprice Mini V1. I think I paid...$220? $230? Something like that. It ran with the Marlin coding, and it was a CHEAP printer that I was able to get into printing and learn about. Was it great? Well, it had a heated print bed, the nozzle was a standard size, and I wasn't locked into using proprietary filament like on other cheap beginner printers when I bought it...6 years ago? The Version 2 that's currently out is $169.99 on a "Black Friday" sale, so it might be worth a look if you're just looking for small things like printing firewalls or control horns.
The downsides of it were that the print bed was small - 120x120x120, about the height of a can of Coke. That print bed size was roughly half the size of most consumer level 3D printers out there, and I was limited to printing with either PLA or ABS; ABS was not something I really wanted to print with after warnings that I needed to print with "adequate ventilation" (which I later found out by reading up on various forums and websites meant "the fumes are toxic, vent it out to the outside and don't breathe it in", but I also couldn't just blow air across it to dissipate it because then the print would come unstuck from the print bed). I also had to replace the power switch in it after 5 years; it burned out from so much turning off and turning on, as well as internal heat temps inside the unit, but spending $10 for a bag of switches on Amazon, I was able to simply swap it out and put a new one in to get the printer back up and running. So, you will see some limitations and quirks with this little printer.
If you are starting out, and you just wan to learn the basics of 3D printing, you really can't go wrong with that printer. Are there better ones out there? You betcha. But I'll tell you that after my father passed and I inherited his Prusa MK3S, my cousin bought my Mini for $40 and is still printing things with it with only a slight amount of maintenance and "modifications" (like putting down blue painter's tape every time he prints to make sure he can get the print off of the print bed, without scraping the heck out of the metal bed and damaging it), so if you're just after "inexpensive" and "relatively reliable", it might be worth it.
Inq
Elite member
I host a user's group at our local public library for their 3D printer. I've helped quite a few people getting started and keeping running. IMO, the first couple of criteria are dependent on YOU! More than half the people getting their first one end up with it on the shelf. Here are the main stumbling blocks I have observed. I'm not implying these apply to you at all... It's just what I've observed by many first time purchasers.
That being said, I only recommend the Ender 3 series printers for those starting out as a cheap, but good quality printer that will give great service for less than $200. There is a huge closet industry of available help on the printer and parts to mod the thing as you learn what is important to you.
Good luck.
- Many people I've worked with are artists wanting to just print art. They have no ability or interest about learning CAD or similar software to make their visions. Most aren't even computer literate. They end up merely printing Thingiverse.com models that others have built. They get bored and frustrated that they're not building what's in their minds and aren't willing to put in the huge learning curve to build their own models. Assuming you are on this forum and are primarily interested in printing planes or parts for planes, there are many fine airplane models available. Some free, some for a nominal fee. You may already be a CAD expert and have a vision and the ability. I don't want to sound immodest, but I would consider my CAD skills toward the advanced side. Trying to take Internet images of some airplane you like and making a 3D model of it... is a HUGE project. In this project https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/p-38-lightening-epic.71024/ I probably already have 30 hours in it and I'm starting from very nice, high-resolution blue print type images. Just modeling the outside geometry will probably take several more hundred hours. Then there is a huge learning curve to get the knowledge of how 3D printers work, their strengths and liabilities. You'll need to cut your models into manageable pieces to fit on your printer in a way that is both strong and doesn't require "supports". Designing the internal structure is almost as daunting at the exterior geometry.
- Then... they were expecting it to be bullet proof like an ink-jet printer. You must be mechanically inclined! You must be able to adjust the printer, tune the printer, take apart the printer and successfully put it back together. You must have the logic to be able to diagnose problems with the printer, typically on your own, but with help from the Internet can often overcome most hurdles. Many people, I've seen get their first clogged extruder and that's the last print they'll do. I know of no shops or Internet places that will fix your printer like the "Geek Squad" and if they did, it'd cost as much as the printer.
- I wouldn't go with anything over the nominal size of 220mm x 220mm x 220mm. Meaning going to the 300, 400, 500+ sizes. Most are in this ~200 range. No matter how big you go with the printer, you'll always want to print something bigger. Might as well get used to printing in pieces and fusing/gluing them together.
-
- Speed... Get used to 8, 20+ hour prints. If your pocket money is measured in thousands... then by all means get the best. But you'll spend 10x more to get a high speed printer using high-end nozzles, rigid frames and typically will be using CoreXY type designs. You might get on-average twice the speed... so still 4, 10+ hour prints. I just CAD up a part get it on the printer and start CAD'ing the next part. Even when I printed a pre-made plane off the Internet, it took about 24 hours total. https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?threads/cub-training-j-3.71041/ I spent maybe 1 hour changing out pieces while it printed... during dinner, while sleeping, while doing other things. You'll just get over needing speed. Save 10X.
That being said, I only recommend the Ender 3 series printers for those starting out as a cheap, but good quality printer that will give great service for less than $200. There is a huge closet industry of available help on the printer and parts to mod the thing as you learn what is important to you.
Good luck.
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Piotrsko
Master member
So I have this friend...... she needs to mass produce a tschotsky and 24 hrs per isn't cutting it for turns. being an ex production engineer I suggested other methods but got vetoed. What's a good fast printer recommendation? Don't want to learn another technology I probably won't ever use.
I wouldn't say 220x220x220 is the max size you need to go; that's more of the average build size.
But I agree with most of what you're saying there.Only thing I KINDA disagree with is that the Ender series is the best. It's the best option for sub $250. BUT, sometimes the headaches that come with it aren't worth it. Setup, maintenance, features like an all metal hotend, auto bed leveling, and heated print bed that aren't always standard on some of the i3 clones are worth spending a little more off the start, and sometimes new people starting out don't know WHY those things might be important, which can hurt them. I think people think these 3D printers are akin to a Star Trek replicator (and in a way, it is), but the tech is not there for speed (not even at the professional level - at least, not that I'm aware of), and it takes work to figure out things like "Why won't the PLA adhere to the bed?" or "Why does my print look hairy instead of nice and smooth?" or big mistake when I was starting out, "Why do I need to print supports? Can't it just hang out there?"
It can be frustrating, and sometimes you don't want to have to put something together, figure every little nuance out, get things tuned just right, so that's where paying a little extra for that particular feature helps out. All part of the cost, though - figure out what you absolutely can't live without, and buy that, right?
Inq
Elite member
Had to look it up and I still don't know what that is.
The learning curve is steep and problematic. I'd never commit myself to doing anything mass produced on my printer and I'm on top of that curve and my printer is good enough for production. If there is a deadline involved... like next Christmas '23, I'd still be leery. Forget about doing something mass produced for these holidays unless you use one of the 3D printer services. You might want to check out a similar item on Thingiverse and get the quote from one of the services... I think you'll be shocked. An item with 50 cents of plastic might cost you $10 to get printed and shipped. It's one hell of a racket!
It's all based on size/weight of material. Some things take minutes. Anything mass produced becomes drudgery on any 3D printer unless you get one of the continuous feed jobs that can just drop off the items into a bucket. https://www.sainsmart.com/products/...RXrG4EiR5P725NZP4WhkkmtW9bx1Uwr0aAmVeEALw_wcB
There is also an option in Cura (Slicing software to output your model for your specific printer) to create a mold for the item you want. Being a production engineer, you'll know how to make sure the model has the proper mold relief angles... she could make the molds with the printer and then maybe... use resin or some other media and "mass" produce to her heart's content.
Inq
Elite member
I wouldn't say 220x220x220 is the max size you need to go; that's more of the average build size.
Only thing I KINDA disagree with is that the Ender series is the best. It's the best option for sub $250.
Well you took something out of context... I said, I would not suggest spending extra just to get the bigger models starting out. The price nearly doubles just to go to 300mm cubed. And 2... I never said the Ender 3 was best. I said it was a good/solid/cheap printer. If you know of a better sub-$200 printer, I'd be interested in hearing it. I help a lot of money strapped parents trying to support their home-schooled children and a $400 printer is not in the cards for them. Nothing from Monoprice is better. I have IIIP Delta and use it as a paper weight. I know one that had the Monoprice Mini and gave it away. The volume size on those are real handicaps unless all you want to make are chess pieces and D&D characters. None of the people that I helped with getting an Ender 3, had any trouble, but I was there to mentor them before and as needed. Sure... if you're well healed and starting out, you can get one of the $2000+ models that are all nice and pretty plastic sealed chambers with carbon filters and blah, blah, blah. Our library has one of those... and frankly all the bells and whistles get in the way when something goes wrong. And they have had more trouble with it than any of the Ender 3 people.
About the only feature that a base model Ender 3 doesn't have that I would recommend looking for is the auto bed leveling. It is worth some extra. I haven't looked at their models in some time, but I checked Amazon... before Black Friday, an Ender 3 is $189 and that's not the cheapest it can be had.
Looks like you zeroed in on my comments and focused on the same thing, taking it out of context. I said I KINDA disagree with it. The base model Enders tend to cut every corner, removing the auto bed leveling, heated beds, all metal hotends...All things that people end up upgrading for because they struggle, and it drives the cost up over $250 to get to that point. You can get all of those things in the upgraded Enders, but you have to pay extra for it, hence why I said it's the best option for sub $250 people. The Monoprices also come pre-assembled. The Mini that I originally recommended is a small bed, but doesn't require assembly, just pull it out of the box. The MP10 is mostly assembled, is a 300x300 print bed, has a magnetic heated flex bed that can be popped off, and auto bed leveling, all for $225. Is it perfect? No, but the price is just as good as the Ender, with more features.
Am I saying that you NEED to go with the Monoprice printers? No. They have their own detractors, things that I don't like. But for the cost and the features you get for the price, they're not bad. And not everyone has a mentor to walk them through the setup, see where they're fighting with various things like adhesion, elephant foot, layer shifting, or stringing, and it's a way to get in the front door to set up rather than setting it to the side due to assembly frustration.
Inq
Elite member
I've not kept up with them as I'm happy with what I have and no one lately has asked for a printer. I will take a look at the MP10.
I would like to clarify a few things and ask your opinion on...
I acknowledge that they cut corners.
- Although I like the pseudo bed leveling on my Prusa, my son says its easy enough to do with the big knurled knobs on the Ender 3 and he rarely has to do it anyway.
- All Ender 3 that I know of have heated beds. The one I bought my son 4 years ago had one... the $179 one on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D218NX3/?tag=lstir-20 has one.
- All metal hot-end. I can't find anyone that can tell me what the advantage of an all metal hot end. My Prusa came with a non-all-metal hot-end and they recommend keeping it below 260C. I don't use PLA and I run the Prusa at 255 for ABS, Nylon and Polycarbonate. A little colder for TPU+. Have never had trouble and still on the same tube. I've changed the nozzle quite a bit from hardened steel for Carbon filled filament and use different size nozzles, but have never run into a need for an all-metal-hotend. When I first started years ago, I seem to recall reading that all-metal-hotends tended to clog easier, but I don't recall the source. Out of the 80 kilometers of filament, I have had the hot-end clog only once and that was using PETG which I'll never use again. Never had it clog with ABS, Nylon or even carbon fiber filled Nylon or Polycarbonate.
Inq
Elite member
This came in one of my news feeds... for Black Friday. Says 85% off on something nobody wants, but it did have Ender 3 for $132, but said "almost sold out."
https://store.creality.com/pages/black-friday-mega-sale-2022?sscid=b1k6_qdjr5&
https://store.creality.com/pages/black-friday-mega-sale-2022?sscid=b1k6_qdjr5&
Inq
Elite member
I couldn't resist the Black Friday Sale on a larger printer.
Tronxy X5SA PRO
330x330x400
CoreXY design
Heated bed
Titan Extruder
Auto leveling
$300
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092QL7T33/?tag=lstir-20
Tronxy X5SA PRO
330x330x400
CoreXY design
Heated bed
Titan Extruder
Auto leveling
$300
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092QL7T33/?tag=lstir-20
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