What's your biggest frustration when designing an RC airplane?

[Realmdyz]

I'm trying to understand what people actually struggle with when designing RC airplanes.

From what I've seen, the biggest challenges seem to be:

Learning the design process
CG & stability
Choosing components
Too much trial and error
High build costs
They spend a lot of time using CAD and similar tools.

Does this match your experience, or is there a bigger problem I'm missing?

 

[Mr NCT]

I'm trying to understand what people actually struggle with when designing RC airplanes.

From what I've seen, the biggest challenges seem to be:

Learning the design process
CG & stability
Choosing components
Too much trial and error
High build costs
They spend a lot of time using CAD and similar tools.

Does this match your experience, or is there a bigger problem I'm missing?

My biggest headache is getting skins on my master series style designs to fit, they always need adjustment. I think this comes from the inaccuracy of the flattening process and the variable thickness of dtfb.

 

[telnar1236]

Skin fitting being challenging is a good one - I've had the same issue with balsa so it's not just a foam board problem. Probably my personal biggest annoyance is CAD stability as the software gets updated - you design something in one version and you need to change something a couple months later and the whole design explodes for an hour or two till you can fix everything - definitely an issue in Fusion 360.

In general, I think the RC plane community and the Flite Test community even more so tends to enjoy some level of building and tinkering. For me the stuff you've listed is part of the fun except for costs and with foam board or 3D printing they tend to be pretty manageable, especially for the kinds of planes you want to fly day-to-day

 

[Merv]

I'm trying to understand what people actually struggle with when designing RC airplanes...

For me it's the unfolding process. I struggle with.

My process is design it flat, like I was drawing the plans on paper. I use Fusion, I know it's a 3D program but I'm not making the connection between 3D model and the unfolding, making it flat. For me it's just easier to draw it flat to begin with.

 

[Realmdyz]

My biggest headache is getting skins on my master series style designs to fit, they always need adjustment. I think this comes from the inaccuracy of the flattening process and the variable thickness of dtfb.

That's really interesting, thanks for sharing.

When you say they always need adjustment, how much rework are we talking about? Is it usually just a few small tweaks, or does it sometimes mean redesigning large sections of the skin?

Also, do you think the biggest issue is the software flattening itself, the foam board thickness, or the combination of both?

 

[Realmdyz]

Skin fitting being challenging is a good one - I've had the same issue with balsa so it's not just a foam board problem. Probably my personal biggest annoyance is CAD stability as the software gets updated - you design something in one version and you need to change something a couple months later and the whole design explodes for an hour or two till you can fix everything - definitely an issue in Fusion 360.

In general, I think the RC plane community and the Flite Test community even more so tends to enjoy some level of building and tinkering. For me the stuff you've listed is part of the fun except for costs and with foam board or 3D printing they tend to be pretty manageable, especially for the kinds of planes you want to fly day-to-day

That's a really good point. I hadn't thought about CAD version stability as a recurring issue.

I also like what you said about building and tinkering being part of the fun. That makes me wonder—where do you personally draw the line between "this is an enjoyable challenge" and "this is just tedious"?

For example, are there any repetitive tasks that you'd happily let software handle while still keeping the creative and building parts for yourself?

 

[Realmdyz]

Skin fitting being challenging is a good one - I've had the same issue with balsa so it's not just a foam board problem. Probably my personal biggest annoyance is CAD stability as the software gets updated - you design something in one version and you need to change something a couple months later and the whole design explodes for an hour or two till you can fix everything - definitely an issue in Fusion 360.

In general, I think the RC plane community and the Flite Test community even more so tends to enjoy some level of building and tinkering. For me the stuff you've listed is part of the fun except for costs and with foam board or 3D printing they tend to be pretty manageable, especially for the kinds of planes you want to fly day-to-day

That's a really good point. I hadn't thought about CAD version stability as a recurring issue.

I also like what you said about building and tinkering being part of the fun. That makes me wonder—where do you personally draw the line between "this is an enjoyable challenge" and "this is just tedious"?

For example, are there any repetitive tasks that you'd happily let software handle while still keeping the creative and building parts for yourself?

 

[Realmdyz]

For me it's the unfolding process. I struggle with.

My process is design it flat, like I was drawing the plans on paper. I use Fusion, I know it's a 3D program but I'm not making the connection between 3D model and the unfolding, making it flat. For me it's just easier to draw it flat to begin with.

That's interesting. So if I understand correctly, it's not that Fusion can't do it—it's that thinking in 3D first and then unfolding it doesn't feel natural to you.

Have you always designed this way, or did you try a full 3D workflow and eventually switch back to drawing everything flat because it was faster?

 

[Mr NCT]

That's really interesting, thanks for sharing.

When you say they always need adjustment, how much rework are we talking about? Is it usually just a few small tweaks, or does it sometimes mean redesigning large sections of the skin?

Also, do you think the biggest issue is the software flattening itself, the foam board thickness, or the combination of both?

OK, your original question was really interesting and it seems that most of us have the same general problems.

But.... Your chatbot style answers put me off engaging any further. If you're using chatgpt or something similar because English is not your first language just use a straight translator (or post in your language) and don't sweat it, we all appreciate genuine conversation over feeling like we're talking to a bot.

 

[Merv]

...Have you always designed this way, or did you try a full 3D workflow and eventually switch back to drawing everything flat because it was faster?

Yes, I've always designed this way. My first cad experience was Sketchup, I switched to Fusion 3-4 years ago. I'm satisfied with my flat design skills. I build regular type FT designs, not the master series. My cut my designs with a needle cutter and they turn out very accurate. There are only a few things that would be better with a 3D design.

I've made several attempts with 3D but all have failed. My attempts have all involved the sheet metal commands. If I do something simple like a box, it will unfold. But if I try something more complex like a fuse or wing, it will not unfold into a flat pattern. Even If it did unfold, I'm not sure the pattern would be accurate, as the sheet metal corners are nothing like FB corners.

 

[Gadeirus]

I've made several attempts with 3D but all have failed. My attempts have all involved the sheet metal commands. If I do something simple like a box, it will unfold. But if I try something more complex like a fuse or wing, it will not unfold into a flat pattern. Even If it did unfold, I'm not sure the pattern would be accurate, as the sheet metal corners are nothing like FB corners.

I too use sheet metal commands for a lot of my foam board designs, but one thing you have to keep in mind when doing so: if you're using SM functionality in CAD, it will only work on something that could be done with flat surfaces and a press brake. Any non-planar surfaces cannot be done. For this you need "flatten" functionality. Onshape can do this, Solidworks can do this (though not if you're using the Makers version) not sure if Fusion 360 can.

Personally, I've not figured out how best to mirror the types of folds used on FT models in CAD. Using sheet metal functionality, it always wants to have a bend region, which foam board neatly side steps by removing foam, bending just the paper, etc. I end up using far more glued edges than are necessary.

I also hate the process of: make drawing, print stack of paper, tape paper together, use a pin to trace the drawing on to foamboard, play connect the dots with a ruler and pencil, then cut with a boxcutter. I'd love to be able to go directly from CAD to some kind of CNC controlled cutting tool, and the needle cutters look interesting, but I don't have it in me to build one, particularly since electronics aren't my strong suite.

 

[telnar1236]

That's a really good point. I hadn't thought about CAD version stability as a recurring issue.

I also like what you said about building and tinkering being part of the fun. That makes me wonder—where do you personally draw the line between "this is an enjoyable challenge" and "this is just tedious"?

For example, are there any repetitive tasks that you'd happily let software handle while still keeping the creative and building parts for yourself?

Might just be stockholm syndrome, but I enjoy the tediousness too a lot of the time - you sort of get into a flow state where you aren't really thinking, just drawing 500 circles to add lightening holes or modeling 50 different longerons (this is for 3D printing).

Troubleshooting the little things is annoying in the moment, but it makes the final success all the more meaningful, whereas if a computer came up with the design and something still didn't work, I'd just be mad at the computer and discouraged from trying again

 

[telnar1236]

If you're looking to build a helpful piece of software like you were discussing in your previous thread, I think making something that can accurately unfold physically buildable skins including folds from a 3D model a large fraction of the time would be a good option and very doable - possibly as a plugin for Onshape or Fusion 360 since those are already widely used and it would be nice to be able to edit the skins using tools we are already familiar with. I don't think any kind of AI software will really be widely adopted for RC plane design without significant advances in AI as a technology

 

[Merv]

...I'd love to be able to go directly from CAD to some kind of CNC controlled cutting tool, and the needle cutters look interesting, but I don't have it in me to build one, particularly since electronics aren't my strong suite.

That's the exact position I found myself in. But if an old guy like me can build a needle cutter anyone can. The electronics are not that difficult, nothing to solder, except maybe make some cables longer.

My first attempt at CNC was with a cheap 3018 router mill. I made a few things with it, just to prove I could do it. I soon made the plunge into 3D printing with an ender. My success with 3D printing gave me the confidence to attempt a needle cutter. I made some mods to Edwards plan. Most notably I use a stepper motor for depth control, the Z axis, because I couldn't get the servo to work. I use the free version of Fusion to draw plans and to produce Gcode.

My system will sometimes mess up the depth of cut, I'm still sorting it out, not sure if my Gcode is off or if it's skipping steps.

 

[Gadeirus]

Honestly, I'm so busy with work, kids, and designing and building models, I'm at a point where I'd be willing to pay someone to build one for me, provided the price was right, ha

 

[Realmdyz]

OK, your original question was really interesting and it seems that most of us have the same general problems.

But.... Your chatbot style answers put me off engaging any further. If you're using chatgpt or something similar because English is not your first language just use a straight translator (or post in your language) and don't sweat it, we all appreciate genuine conversation over feeling like we're talking to a bot.

Haha, that's fair. I wasn't trying to sound like a chatbot)))))))))))))))))))))))))

 

[LitterBug]

My issues are Lack of creative ideas, and lack of skills. Not much software can do to fix that. I have Techno skillz instead of artistry and creativity.

 

[L Edge]

My issue is the lack of available material to design a new plane.

20 years ago, blue foam (FFF) was the material that was top choice and cheap to buy. As that disappeared, then came Depron, excellent, but expensive. Tough to design small radii with that. Then brown foam, same story, and now thin foam that when it get's in contact with moisture, you take out the iron to put it back in shape if you can get at it.
Another result is more weight(double layers, more glue) is added to designing a flyable aircraft with your thin foam.

The goal is to design light, build right, and enjoy.

 

[telnar1236]

My issue is the lack of available material to design a new plane.

20 years ago, blue foam (FFF) was the material that was top choice and cheap to buy. As that disappeared, then came Depron, excellent, but expensive. Tough to design small radii with that. Then brown foam, same story, and now thin foam that when it get's in contact with moisture, you take out the iron to put it back in shape if you can get at it.
Another result is more weight(double layers, more glue) is added to designing a flyable aircraft with your thin foam.

The goal is to design light, build right, and enjoy.

Yeah, materials have been a perpetual frustration. You either go balsa and spend 5 months building a plane that will be destroyed in one crash, or foam board and need to deal with its limitations for complex shapes, or hotwire cut and have to deal with how finicky that can be, or 3D printed and have to deal with all the added weight

 

[Realmdyz]

My issues are Lack of creative ideas, and lack of skills. Not much software can do to fix that. I have Techno skillz instead of artistry and creativity.

What capabilities do you think an intelligent RC airplane building assistant should have to help you?