Why all the negativity toward clubs?

[earthsciteach]

There are a lot of solid reasons for people to be anti-club and I'm sure all of those have been covered here. Personally, I hated the idea of some organization telling me I had to join in order to fly. I still am not quite comfy with that. I only joined the AMA so that I could fly at FTFF2014 and 15. And, that rubbed me the wrong way, too. After being a member, I have lightened up a bit on my criticism, but am still wary of the whole idea.

I joined my first club over the summer and I am REALLY happy with the folks who comprise it. The first couple of times I went out to the club, I intentionally took my most ridiculous airplanes just to see the reaction of folks. These were planes that had been beat and battered, foam only and I flew with my Turnigy 9x that was held together by Gorilla Tape. No one batted an eye. I quickly got to know the guys and I am so happy that I joined! If I have to pay an AMA fee to fly at that field, it is worth it to me. All of the members of this club split from others and formed their own with a focus on families and bringing new people into the hobby. That means there are a handful of other local clubs who personify the "grumpy old mens' club."

I'm not sure the AMA will remain relevant if the FAA registration (and, undoubtably upcoming regs) stand up to legal action. I really doubt they will. Someone will step in and fill the insurance requirement because there is a buck to be made. But, why pay for AMA membership when FAA registration only costs $5 for 3 years? Just my thoughts.

 

[bhursey]

There are a lot of solid reasons for people to be anti-club and I'm sure all of those have been covered here. Personally, I hated the idea of some organization telling me I had to join in order to fly. I still am not quite comfy with that. I only joined the AMA so that I could fly at FTFF2014 and 15. And, that rubbed me the wrong way, too. After being a member, I have lightened up a bit on my criticism, but am still wary of the whole idea.

I joined my first club over the summer and I am REALLY happy with the folks who comprise it. The first couple of times I went out to the club, I intentionally took my most ridiculous airplanes just to see the reaction of folks. These were planes that had been beat and battered, foam only and I flew with my Turnigy 9x that was held together by Gorilla Tape. No one batted an eye. I quickly got to know the guys and I am so happy that I joined! If I have to pay an AMA fee to fly at that field, it is worth it to me. All of the members of this club split from others and formed their own with a focus on families and bringing new people into the hobby. That means there are a handful of other local clubs who personify the "grumpy old mens' club."

I'm not sure the AMA will remain relevant if the FAA registration (and, undoubtably upcoming regs) stand up to legal action. I really doubt they will. Someone will step in and fill the insurance requirement because there is a buck to be made. But, why pay for AMA membership when FAA registration only costs $5 for 3 years? Just my thoughts.

I think that is where it comes in is once you start building the relationships and stay at a club a while. I would do anything to join my old club to fly with the guys i started with. Unfortunutly i moved and they are over 100 miles away. I hope to meet the new guys at the local club and get to know them. I am excited about joining this spring. I cant wait. I am getting a friend to come join with me so at the begining we can spot for eachother.

 

[roversgonemad]

I can understand where those guys are coming from. RC planes have long been a niche hobby, enjoyed by those who made the time and took the effort to build and fly planes. There were many of the same sort of sentiments toward ARF fliers when ARFs really became popular, but an ARF plane still required some determination and eventually skill to fly it well. It's only recently that technology has advanced to the point that almost anyone can fly a quad, or even a plane for that matter. Some of the large photo quads will literally fly themselves, meaning that anyone, anyplace can fly one.

An RC plane also requires a bit more space. Honestly, those who fly their quads in crowded areas are being very irresponsible, and those who use their cameras when they shouldn't are also being irresponsible. The same sort of things are not possible with a plane. Sure you can take pictures, or fly FPV, but you can't hover and use a gimbal stabilized camera to get really good pictures of people and places. A camera on a plane is simply not the same.

For those that are dedicated fixed wing fliers and have zero interest in quads, I can totally understand why they have some angst for the irresponsible quad copter pilots (not that all quad pilots are irresponsible, but there have been some undeniable bad actors). With the media coverage, and public fear, RC fliers have gotten attention they likely never would have received, had RC technology not progressed to the point that anyone can fly a $2k multi pound quad over a large crowd. I will admit, I really don't appreciate the idiots that crash their quads in the hot pools at Yellowstone or crash into crowds, and get our hobby badmouthed on the national news. I would really prefer to not have to give the federal government any more of my information than they already have, but bad behavior by these individuals has driven our idiot government to have to do something to assuage the irrational fear. I am one of those that had all my personal info stolen from OPM, so I know the magnitude of government incompetence, and I really don't want them having my credit card info to lose as well.

I am an AMA member, and a fixed wing flier, and a club member. I do have a few mini-quads, but I don't fly them in public areas, I follow the same AMA rules for those as I do with my planes. The real problem, is that some stupid FAA registration isn't going to stop stupid people from doing stupid things. I don't think it will do anything besides put more of my personal information at risk. I am going to hold off until the last possible moment to register with the FAA. If AMA can't stop this stupidity, I will register, but it will be under protest.

 

[bhursey]

I understand you all frustration tward the AMA but this thread really is not tward drone registration. There are about 4 or 5 of those threads.

Back to the conversation. There are clubs that focus on gliders, there arr clubs that focus in multiroters, there are clubs that focus on big gassers and there are mixed use clubs. AMA is not the issue, grumpynold men are not the issue. ( i do see where there comeing from) it is the bad actors. I always sugest reserching clubs and visiting them to see what is flown and what is going on there before judging them..

A few clubs around me each with its own focus:
Club im joining mixed use mainly small to mid range electrics, and small to midrange gas, family enviornment and allows fpv when skys are not to Crowded i allready reached out and discussed whatvthe club is like. I indicated what I flew and what I enjoyed doing. I asked about FPV usage and if its ok. They were really nice and helpfull. I can not wait to go visit. http://www.gamtnrc.org/

Local glider club:
http://www.atlantasoaring.org/DNN/

Gasser club besides the price of 200$ prodomitly seems old school large gassers. So i wont fit in but trully dont know tell i visit. I have allready been invited to visit. http://gmarc.com

Club focused frim what i hear multi rotor and helos even has a dedicated area and pit.. http://www.atlrcclub.org

Local drone raceing club not sure its sanctioned but it exists. http://www.meetup.com/Drone-Racing-Club-DRC/#

My point is that not every club is a one shoe fits all. Reserch needs to be done and questions need to be asked before passing judgment. Look around talk to and contact local clubs dont just rely on the website call or email and ask questions. Main focus is to have a safe fun place to fly with other pilots.

Note typed from my phone im sleepy have no computer so errors will exist.

 

[jhitesma]

Back to the conversation. There are clubs that focus on gliders, there arr clubs that focus in multiroters, there are clubs that focus on big gassers and there are mixed use clubs. AMA is not the issue, grumpynold men are not the issue. ( i do see where there comeing from) it is the bad actors. I always sugest reserching clubs and visiting them to see what is flown and what is going on there before judging them..

Not to argue for the sake of arguing (because this is a valuable conversation and I'm glad you both started it and are keeping it going in a positive manner) but that's not the case everywhere.

For me there's one club. It's the ONLY club within quite some distance. (BTW, AMA's site could be a LOT better about this...took me 3 lucky clicks from the homepage before I found a "Find a club" link. As a professional web developer I have to say that should be either the #1 or #2 easiest to find link on their site, not buried 3 pages deep!)

A search for clubs near me returns 1 results within 25 miles. Bumping it to 50 miles returns another 42 miles away, who's website isn't even registered anymore...they do appear to have a paved runway (but I had to zoom out on the map AMA provided to find it) but no clue if they're really active since they don't even maintain their website. And they're an hour away in another state...so basically yeah, I've got 1 club.

Now I know I'm not necessarily typical. But I live in the 3rd largest metropolitan area in my state though and we have multiple military facilities around us who are actively training actual drone pilots. So you'd kind of think there may be a decent number of RC modelers around. Even so it's 2-3 hours of driving to the next city that's worth the label of city. But that's how it is out here in the west.

[side note: For this same reason I have more experience dealing with federal agencies than I care to relate. A lot of the land out here is federally owned and you end up dealing with DOI and BLM instead of state or local agencies. I've been involved in fights against the feds before. Short version: Last fight we were in the right and after 12 years finally prevailed legally proving that we were in the right all along...we still got screwed at the end as well as getting screwed for the 12 years fighting. This upcoming fight against the FAA isn't going to go any better. Go ask the NAR/Tripoli about High power rocketry and the BATF...or the San Diego Tripoli chapter about Plaster Blaster if you want to really loose faith in our government.]

Point is...I don't have multiple clubs to pick and choose from. I have one. Two if I want to drive an hour into another state just to find out if they're still active or not.

And I'm not the only one in this country like that. At the same time people like us probably aren't the ones the FAA is up in arms about. For the same reasons I only have 1 club to choose from there aren't a whole lot of ways I can annoy people with my models. Though even out of my 2 next door neighbors one welcomes me to fly over her yard and thinks it's neat all the stuff I build...the other..."Keep it away from my property line and don't point any damn cameras at me I've got guns and keep them loaded.". Kind of funny considering his day job is as flight director for a government surveillance blimp. (He's a nice guy really, even gave me a chunk of their mooring cable to use as a tow strap for my truck...just values his own privacy.)

My point is that not every club is a one shoe fits all. Reserch needs to be done and questions need to be asked before passing judgment. Look around talk to and contact local clubs dont just rely on the website call or email and ask questions. Main focus is to have a safe fun place to fly with other pilots.

Except sometimes they do have to be one shoe fits all

Honestly though...the more I think about it the more my big problem with joining a club...any club (i.e. one that fits any of my interests - radios, computers, off-roading, photography, model rocketry...you name it) is that they tend to expect their members to be somewhat dedicated. Which is understandable, they're single interest clubs. But I'm just not a single interest kind of guy. I'm all about the symbiosis and melding of interests. I love multirotors because they bring together my love of electronics, my love of coding, my love of flight and my love of fabrication. I just hate to be pigeon holed. I have a lot of interests and I love to cross-pollinate between them. I put radios on my off-road vehicles. I love sitting out in the middle of the desert miles away from anyone else - and firing up a 5w HF radio then using it to talk to someone halfway across the globe. I love taking my love of electronics and using it to build my own EFI system for that off-road vehicle - or making my own flight controller for my quad.

But in clubs...I meet a few people who are interested in what I bring to the table with my various interestes. But I meet a lot more who are so singularly focused and only want to deal with others who are singularly focused...that I quickly get turned off not only to the club but to the activity the club promotes. And it ends up driving me away not only from the club but from something I love. And that is the exact opposite of what a club should do.

So bottom line I've reached a point where I'm hesitant to join any clubs because I don't want to kill my passions. I'd rather be a "lone wolf" pursing all of them than a club member focused on only one.

If I could find clubs that are more open and accepting and truly want to nurture the object of their focus while encouraging new members...I'd join a lot more. But at least around here I've found things to be the opposite. Thankfully on-line I don't have those restrictions

Note typed from my phone im sleepy have no computer so errors will exist.

I'm tired, I'm adjusting to new glasses after 15 years of not wearing them (Had LASIK in 99 and loved the results...but my astigmatism has come back. I still test 20/20 but wow did this mild correction for astigmatism make a HUGE difference in clarity.) and shared a bottle of wine with my wife over dinner. So sorry if my response is rambling or disjointed

I want to like clubs...I really do. I'm just sick and tired of only finding clubs that are too closed minded and singularly focused for their own good

 

[jhitesma]

Oh I also have to add...this listing on the AMA site for my local club had me almost falling out of my chair laughing:

Field Restrictions
No Alcohol, No Firearms, No Open Flames, No Pyrotechnics, No Restrictions

That last "restriction" just seems a little out of place

 

[makattack]

I understand where you're coming from jhitesma. I do wonder though if you'd find a "home" at my club which is quite far from where you live (you in AZ, my club in MA) because you would find this eclectic mix of folks at our main flying field of Davis Sq:

Rocketry / Model rockets
Winch launched gliders
Motor gliders
Discus launched gliders
(yes, lots of gliders)
EDF jets
Multirotors -- everything from DJI drones to 250 quads to toy quads
Motorized paper airplanes (just saw a young child trying to fly one of those without a lot of success a few weekends ago)
Fixed wing drones (various APM equipped wings including one I built based on a FT Blunt Nose Versa Wing)
FPV fixed wing and multirotors
3D helis
3D planes
free flight stick and tissue planes
chuck gliders
guys walking around with yagi antennas connected to handheld transcievers fox hunting for lost gliders equipped with beacons
RC transmitters working on 72MHz, 433MHz, 2.4GHz
FPV on 1.2GHz and 5.8GHz

If you look in the cars of some members, you'll even find sailboats that they're taking with them to another location after flying

Mixed in among that are dog walkers and hunters (during hunting season, the general warning is don't go looking for your lost plane until Sunday when hunting isn't allowed)

It may sound pretty chaotic, and it sort of is because there really isn't a set flight line unless you're flying the winch launched gliders, but it's a fully AMA sanctioned field and I love that eclectic mix. There are no attitudes and non members are welcomed to fly at the field. The club truly runs as a non-profit. I volunteered to help with the food for a soaring contest and when I asked what my budget was, they told me they had about $400 in preregistered fees so my budget was $400 but if I should go over a little, that's ok. The goal is to try to break even, but we might get walk-ons so going a little over was better than not buying enough food.

 

[makattack]

People inside and outside of clubs and the AMA always have a chance to misunderstand anything they aren't familiar with. This is why you hear about people saying they have every right to shoot down drones near our over their property.

I'm not trying to recruit everyone to a club or the AMA, just saying that they aren't all the same and in lumping them together as bad due to ones own experience is risking doing the same as people who think all multirotor pilots try to fly near airliners and interfere with emergency response.

There are attitudes in all groups. How welcoming would a group of fpv racers be to a new comer who powers up their 700mw vtx on a random channel during a race without first checking the bands?

My club president saw something like that happen between non members and had to help explain what happened then asked the club if we could update our frequency board to a fpv freq. board.

 

[bhursey]

Well being that most people that fpv race, at least in our group don't use anything over 200mw not that big of a issue.

I'm not saying all clubs are the devil, but every single one I been to always pushed multirotors to some remote part of the field.

And most comments I see on a few petitions are AMA members just spewing bad things. Even on the Facebook page is the same thing.

So they lump all multirotor pilots together, and blame us for what is going and just playing the blame game. I just won't join any pay to be a member clubs. I don't need a runway for my helis and multirotors.

Know whats funny this is the exact stuff that was discussed in the 90s when helicopters started to get big. There are clear and understanding safety reasons for a dedicated spot on the field for different aircraft. Reason? They all fly different. Traditional fixed wing aircraft have to fly what is called a pattern. Depending on the wind you either fly a left or right pattern when others are in the air. This is to provide safety and order. You announce landings and take offs and ask the line if a fly by is ok. If power is lost you yell deadstick. If you plane is damaged you yell landing and the reason. The issue members have is that this long standing safty practice is impacted if a different type is introduced. This is why there are dedicated places for helos and multioaters because they don't fly in a pattern. In your quad do you want to fly a constant oval pattern? Probably not that is why there is a dedicated place. If no one is in air you can always ask the line "while no one is up is it ok to send the quad up? Every place i have gone has been ok with. Last club i visited at the fixed wing guys flew around a bit then landed the quad guys who were also fixed wing flew around the runway while no one was flying. Heck every one was ok with an attempt of air to air video... When i get tp a computer i will post the video its pretty cool. My point is there are reasons for the way clubs are. Most clubs also may have a parkflyer area, sailplane area and so on. I know at clubs it would be nice to fly where ever you want and do whatever you want. However for safety that's not the case. I have seen mid air collisions that have sent aircraft into the pits. It is no fun one crashed 2 feet from me. The guy was very apologetic i said its ok it missed me im more sad about your airplane. It was a buitifully built sail plane he had had since the 70s. Stunning really.

Edit here is the video I promised I'm the one on the flight line in the brown shirt. I'm flying the red tiny trainer. He did not have fpv so was guessing IG I was in frame or not.

 

[Fyathyrio]

I don't think you can take the AMA, registration, or money out of the discussion.

The AMA sets the tone, they do not really support FPV or anything with GPS on it, and they make the rules affiliated clubs must follow. The AMA wholeheartedly supports government regulation of the hobby, they only attempted (and are still attempting) to exempt their members. They could have stood up for the whole hobby and swelled their ranks that way, but instead chose to maintain the existing good ol' boy club model. The high membership fee gives the initial impression that they like the exclusiveness.

The clubs around me have a range of yearly dues, some higher than I'd prefer, others that seem reasonable. They all have one vile habit in common though, a ridiculously high fee for first time members. In other words, maintaining the exclusivity model that AMA promotes. When they want to charge more to fly than most BNF foam planes cost, I'll buy the plane and say no thanks. I fly at my college on some open soccer fields, just a few blocks from my local club, without any issues. I can hear the large gassers flying in the distance and I'm happy I'm not next to them. What is frustrating is the club is on county land, I do not appreciate my tax dollars supporting an exclusive club with locked gates.

The club does not appear friendly on their website either. Aside from the high entrance fees, they highlight pictures showing high priced planes and little to no content with new fliers. They also have limited total membership so one must wait for an opening and must be voted on by members at a meeting...no thanks.

Instead, I hang out with a small group with varied RC interests that met through RCG. Some are more into FPV racing, others like long distance FPV, some are still at RTF cheap China quad & plane skill and budget levels, ect. Anything from balsa 3D planes down to Cheerson CX-10s. We all support each other, we watch for sales, stories, and parts others may need to advance on their particular RC path, we leverage the groups knowledge to further our own RC goals, and we've all broadened our RC experience. We fly safely, both as a group and with regard for the general public. No dues, no one time fees, no club politics, no officers, no meetings, just flying RC junk and having a good time. If the AMA wants to consider us rebels, then rebels we shall be!

 

[bhursey]

It sounds like im lucky to have the clubs we have here.. I dont have a safe place or people to fly with unfortunutly. Just give it time. New technologies will be note longer as time goes on belive me I was one of the first electric guys in the mid 90s. Seems the general view people have is. I havent experianced it yet but thats the view im hearing.

AMA/club= big gasser stubborn anti quad and fpv
Non ama = we can do quads, fpv and so on is that correct?

The one I was a member of was not that way but they operated safe so rules need to be followed. I have seen bad things happen. So im a stickler on safty i guess. I hope my new club is the way my old club was. The fact that they have members who fly FPV makes me feel better.

We will see how things go when i join up. I hope its how the club that i was a member of in the 90s is.

 

[bhursey]

One intresting thing people had tye same opinions against electric when i was leaving the hobby note i was flying electric 4 years before this..

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164041&page=2

 

[ViperTech]

Well I for one have had an excellent club experience. I am a member of YARCC, York area radio control club in York,PA. I went there with FT foam board planes and have been accepted by the group. The old school gas and glow guys are right along side the electric guys and at any given time all 8 pilot boxes are full and there will be 3d guys out with warbirds and trainers and slow flyers, pattern ships and multi rotors! It is quite a sight to see that many and varied aircraft up at the same time and yet it is safe, we follow a flight pattern based on the wind direction and we all call out our intentions taking off, landing, touch and go, low pass and so on. The only time that we have just one plane up by itself is when our resident pro ( he flies military drones for a living) gets out the 1/4 scale Extra 330S and puts on a school for us, we give him the field! He is just amazing to watch and to see this monster plane prop hang across the field and all the crazy moves he does you just don't want to miss the show! I am glad to be a part of a club that has seen the need to accept the foamy guys and I have converted some gas guys to electric and they look to me for information on electric flight and I am the rookie!