Willy Nillies Barnstormer 250
- Thread starter rockyboy
- Start date
Control rods and horns installed on the ailerons (along with tape hinges).
Since there isn't a slot cut for the control rod on this side of the fuselage, it's helpful to lay the rod on the side to see the angle where it's going to come through.
The control horn on the elevator needs to be able to slide up into the fuselage at the back - initially this was binding.
But with a little gentle carving it clears and moves smoothly now.
And back to the rudder - control horn and rod installed.
Receiver wired up too - once it's bound I'll slide it out of the way under the battery tray.
Checklist is getting smaller...
- Bind & tuck receiver into place
- Program radio
- Chase the wing bolt threads with a tap so it goes together smoother
- Cut and install iron crosses
- Final balancing
Since there isn't a slot cut for the control rod on this side of the fuselage, it's helpful to lay the rod on the side to see the angle where it's going to come through.
The control horn on the elevator needs to be able to slide up into the fuselage at the back - initially this was binding.
But with a little gentle carving it clears and moves smoothly now.
And back to the rudder - control horn and rod installed.
Receiver wired up too - once it's bound I'll slide it out of the way under the battery tray.
Checklist is getting smaller...
- Bind & tuck receiver into place
- Program radio
- Chase the wing bolt threads with a tap so it goes together smoother
- Cut and install iron crosses
- Final balancing
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Willy Nillies
Elite member
Looks really great! We are taking notes and will fix the little issues you have mentioned in future kits. Keep up the great work!
Sincerely,
Doug and Becky
WillyNillies.com
Sincerely,
Doug and Becky
WillyNillies.com
Awesome! Thank you!!
I talked these kits up at my club meeting last week, and got several people interested in doing a group build project over the winter. They got cold feet on doing a group Telemaster build with me last year, but the size & price of these kits really got people's attention! Since your designs go together so quickly, I think it will work out great to break it into three 1 hour sessions - an introduction & fuselage build session, wing builds on the second, and then a covering session. Cause when you get a bunch of kids (or RC pilots) together, everything takes twice as long as just doing it by yourself
Looking back over the whole build I only see two spots where I would have done something differently.
First, using the 2mm t-nuts, which was my own modification to the instructions, turned out to be fussy. One popped out when I removed the motor and was tricky to get back in, even without the fuselage covering being on. Instead I would have gone for some RTL servo screws for connecting the motor mount to the firewall https://www.rtlfasteners.com/RC/d.html. The current screw holes in the firewall might be a little too large for those to fit snugly, but twisting the mount a few degrees would line it up with fresh plywood. Perhaps this is a design tweak you could evaluate too for ease of maintenance and installation. I hate the thought of gluing that firewall and motor in place with the screws inaccessible, only to discover the ESC wires need to be switched cause the motor is running backwards - cause that's probably something that would only be discovered after covering while doing final radio checks.
Second, I would have tried the CA & fishing line hinge technique. The tape hinges work just fine functionally, but I think the fishing line would be cleaner and easier to install and prevent those little visible lines on the covering. I just got cruising along with the work and didn't think of it at the right time on this build. I'll leave the hinges as they are now 'cause trying to remove the tape could tear up or stretch out the covering.
Bottom line - I love the design, love the kit, excellent service, and I will be buying more. And I really look forward to getting this one in the air - hopefully this Saturday!
Thanks!
Tucked in the receiver after it was bound to the transmitter.
And added the vinyl iron crosses!
Left the bottom empty to help with orientation.
But then I put her on the balance points and discovered a sizable problem. Took 1.5 ounces to balance!
That puts her up to a chubby 7.8 ounces and out of range for what I'm willing to accept.
So let's think about some options...
- Cut a hatch in the front fuselage and move the battery forward. Pretty good weight swing with middle level of effort/risk.
- Add motor mount extensions to put that weight further ahead of the CG. Good weight payout with minimal effort/risk.
- Make longer control rods and reconfigure the center Bay to push the servos forward more. But they are already 3.7g and don't weigh much so that will be a minimal gain for much pain in the butt.
- Something else?
- All of the above?
Any other ideas out there?
And added the vinyl iron crosses!
Left the bottom empty to help with orientation.
But then I put her on the balance points and discovered a sizable problem. Took 1.5 ounces to balance!
That puts her up to a chubby 7.8 ounces and out of range for what I'm willing to accept.
So let's think about some options...
- Cut a hatch in the front fuselage and move the battery forward. Pretty good weight swing with middle level of effort/risk.
- Add motor mount extensions to put that weight further ahead of the CG. Good weight payout with minimal effort/risk.
- Make longer control rods and reconfigure the center Bay to push the servos forward more. But they are already 3.7g and don't weigh much so that will be a minimal gain for much pain in the butt.
- Something else?
- All of the above?
Any other ideas out there?
Moving the battery is probably the biggest bang-for-the-buck choice and might be done without adding any extra weight.
Using motor mounts to push the motor forward will help, but you'll also be adding the weight of the mounts in an effort to move the CoG. *IF* you move the motor forward you could possibly use the lead weights as the spacers. Drill a hole through them for the motor mount bolts and gain both nose-weight and a forward-mounted motor. That may be better than stuffing lead down in the nose aft of the firewall.
None of the tail construction looks "too heavy", unless some of the balsa is the really hard/heavy (for balsa) grade?
Using motor mounts to push the motor forward will help, but you'll also be adding the weight of the mounts in an effort to move the CoG. *IF* you move the motor forward you could possibly use the lead weights as the spacers. Drill a hole through them for the motor mount bolts and gain both nose-weight and a forward-mounted motor. That may be better than stuffing lead down in the nose aft of the firewall.
None of the tail construction looks "too heavy", unless some of the balsa is the really hard/heavy (for balsa) grade?
Bricks
Master member
You could add the access hatch to move the batteries forward and put landing gear on it, as I am afraid the monocoat is not going to hold up well to a lot of belly landings. I know it hurts but the vinyl on the rudder how heavy is it?
When building something like this I have a tendency to mount the engine lay the electronics in and check CG before I mount anything permanently.
When building something like this I have a tendency to mount the engine lay the electronics in and check CG before I mount anything permanently.
It's covered with the lightweight Nelson film - way less than Monocote, so no help on that front. Took a look at Joe's hatch and like the lead motor spacer idea too - only need to add 3/4 ounce with those two changes and a 460mah battery. Will see about pushing the other electronics forward more once she is open too.
And here she is mid-surgery.
More news once she's back in the recovery room.
And here she is mid-surgery.
More news once she's back in the recovery room.
Willy Nillies
Elite member
500 mAh 3s in forward most battery tray. Elevator and rudder servos are further back than we normally place them.... Usually right behind the battery tray. We've never had a problem?!?
Sincerely,
Doug and Becky
WillyNillies.com
Sincerely,
Doug and Becky
WillyNillies.com
The bigger battery in the front and the more forward servo locations could account for it. If I can get her near 7 oz with the 2s460mah battery and motor mount changes I'll plan to leave the servos in place and be happy to go flying.
Willy Nillies
Elite member
That would put you spot on weight Wise. Most of ours finish out 6.3 to 6.7 ounces without landing gear.
The recommended c of g is slightly forward of optimal to ensure you have a successful first flight. You'll probably end up moving cg back some once you are comfortable with it.
Sincerely,
Doug and Becky
WillyNillies.com
The recommended c of g is slightly forward of optimal to ensure you have a successful first flight. You'll probably end up moving cg back some once you are comfortable with it.
Sincerely,
Doug and Becky
WillyNillies.com
Down to a pair of 1/4 oz weights after moving all the electronics (except the servos) as far forward as I can manage. The photo angle makes it look like the nose is down, but she's really sitting level here.
And we're down to 7.44 oz now...
Not as slim as I would like, but it'll be all right. Doing the calculations with the 29" wing she comes in with a 9.2 cube loading which still fits in the low end of the "general sport and scale acrobatics" range and should be loads of fun in the air!
http://www.flyrc.com/wing-load-calculator/
Honestly, doing the cube calcs at the higher 7.8 oz only puts the cube loading up at 9.6 and would have been just fine too - but that was with a tiny 180mah battery in the main bay. Things will be much better with the larger battery up front - and now I have a hatch and don't need to remove the wing for battery changes too!
With the folding prop I've got on there it should be right around 100 watts per pound on a 2 cell battery. That power can almost be doubled with a 3 cell battery, but I think I put in the battery tray too shallow for the 3 cell batteries I have
But as my piloting skills are somewhere between "advanced-beginner" and "beginner-intermediate" I think the 2 cell setup should work out great for me
In other news, I also took the opportunity of dismounting the motor to pull the mount off and paint it black along with the lead weights. And wouldn't you know, when I screwed the motor back on I crunched down on the wood a tiny bit more and shorted out the motor windings!
I've got another 1806 in a box though, just need to swap it out with some washers on the screws, put some covering on the hatch, and use one of the magnets from the busted motor for a hatch latch.
And we're down to 7.44 oz now...
Not as slim as I would like, but it'll be all right. Doing the calculations with the 29" wing she comes in with a 9.2 cube loading which still fits in the low end of the "general sport and scale acrobatics" range and should be loads of fun in the air!
http://www.flyrc.com/wing-load-calculator/
Honestly, doing the cube calcs at the higher 7.8 oz only puts the cube loading up at 9.6 and would have been just fine too - but that was with a tiny 180mah battery in the main bay. Things will be much better with the larger battery up front - and now I have a hatch and don't need to remove the wing for battery changes too!
With the folding prop I've got on there it should be right around 100 watts per pound on a 2 cell battery. That power can almost be doubled with a 3 cell battery, but I think I put in the battery tray too shallow for the 3 cell batteries I have
But as my piloting skills are somewhere between "advanced-beginner" and "beginner-intermediate" I think the 2 cell setup should work out great for me
In other news, I also took the opportunity of dismounting the motor to pull the mount off and paint it black along with the lead weights. And wouldn't you know, when I screwed the motor back on I crunched down on the wood a tiny bit more and shorted out the motor windings!
I've got another 1806 in a box though, just need to swap it out with some washers on the screws, put some covering on the hatch, and use one of the magnets from the busted motor for a hatch latch.
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I'm lovin' that transparent green color. It looks like the same So-Lite covering I used on a plane for my dad a few years back.
Kind of funny that your entire plane's AUW is half the weight of the lead I need for CoG just to balance my current build. I do miss how fast a park flyer can be put together from a good kit...!
Kind of funny that your entire plane's AUW is half the weight of the lead I need for CoG just to balance my current build.
I do miss how fast a park flyer can be put together from a good kit...!Willy Nillies
Elite member
You'll be fine at 7.44 oz. Our prototype was 7.8 and flies very very good. The only thing we can think of is that your kit must have had some slightly heavier wood in it.
Sincerely,
Doug and Becky
WillyNillies.com
Sincerely,
Doug and Becky
WillyNillies.com
I'm lovin' that transparent green color. It looks like the same So-Lite covering I used on a plane for my dad a few years back.
Kind of funny that your entire plane's AUW is half the weight of the lead I need for CoG just to balance my current build.
Thanks! The UK company that made (past tense sadly) the light weight film Nelson Lite, So-Lite, and Solar-Film sold the same stuff under 3 separate brands - but all the same stuff. I've got rolls of all of them and can't tell the difference between them.
And it's nice to take a breather from big builds with a little one every once in a while
Thanks - that would do it for sure. I don't think I built heavy on the tail, but at this size if the wood was denser back there it could certainly have this level of impact.
When I build my next Barnstormer with the club build-along this winter we'll see if it comes out the same!
You could always ditch the weight and up the motor size... Just sayin..
MOAR powah!!! I have 2 spare 2306 2700kv motors from my DAL build since I am dropping to a 1750kv n going torque n pitch vs rpm.
You're just trying to see how deep in the ground I can auger this thing, aren't you?
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