Wing spoilers vs. ailerons?

[Toddhi]

Hello,
I read an article that claimed the P-61 Black Widow could turn as tight as the tightest turning U.S. fighter in WW II (even though with the twin engines and massive bulk it is the heaviest and biggest U.S. fighter manufactured in WW II)........the article attributed this to the spoilers in the wings.............So my question is why are we still using ailerons and not spoilers since the ailerons have a opposite yawing effect to the direction of the bank creating aileron INEFFIciency.........while the spoilers have a yawing effect that is in the same direction as the bank adding to spoiler EFFIciency. Also, the spoilers help to rotate the aircraft in the direction of the turn making the turn tighter and quicker.................so it seems that the spoilers are more efficient. How come the propeller driven aircraft manufacturers(Cessna, Piper, Beechcraft, Lockheed Hercules, etc.) continue to use ailerons instead of spoilers?????? Why????
Thanks for your valuable reply.

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[Merv]

...Why????...

Ailerons are easier to build & have fewer moving parts. If your ailerons are setup correctly, they will have the same yaw effect as you described. You want the up aileron to go up more than the down aileron goes down.
If they are incorrectly, they will produce adverse yaw.

 

[Foam Folder]

Hello,
I read an article that claimed the P-61 Black Widow could turn as tight as the tightest turning U.S. fighter in WW II (even though with the twin engines and massive bulk it is the heaviest and biggest U.S. fighter manufactured in WW II)........the article attributed this to the spoilers in the wings.............So my question is why are we still using ailerons and not spoilers since the ailerons have a opposite yawing effect to the direction of the bank creating aileron INEFFIciency.........while the spoilers have a yawing effect that is in the same direction as the bank adding to spoiler EFFIciency. Also, the spoilers help to rotate the aircraft in the direction of the turn making the turn tighter and quicker.................so it seems that the spoilers are more efficient. How come the propeller driven aircraft manufacturers(Cessna, Piper, Beechcraft, Lockheed Hercules, etc.) continue to use ailerons instead of spoilers?????? Why????
Thanks for your valuable reply.

Agree!!!

 

[CappyAmeric]

Hello,
I read an article that claimed the P-61 Black Widow could turn as tight as the tightest turning U.S. fighter in WW II (even though with the twin engines and massive bulk it is the heaviest and biggest U.S. fighter manufactured in WW II)........the article attributed this to the spoilers in the wings.............So my question is why are we still using ailerons and not spoilers since the ailerons have a opposite yawing effect to the direction of the bank creating aileron INEFFIciency.........while the spoilers have a yawing effect that is in the same direction as the bank adding to spoiler EFFIciency. Also, the spoilers help to rotate the aircraft in the direction of the turn making the turn tighter and quicker.................so it seems that the spoilers are more efficient. How come the propeller driven aircraft manufacturers(Cessna, Piper, Beechcraft, Lockheed Hercules, etc.) continue to use ailerons instead of spoilers?????? Why????
Thanks for your valuable reply.

We probably opt for ailerons instead of spoilers because ailerons are more effective because they create drag and lift. As you have noticed that most general aviation aircraft have only ailerons. While most airliners have spoilers as well, it is ailerons that give the most control for roll about the longitudinal axis. As for the adverse yaw caused by ailerons, that one of the main reason we have rudders.

In model aviation, if we only had spoilers, we would have less roll authority. Aerobatics would greatly suffer.

 

[Flying Monkey fab]

What is "best" often comes down to the situation. For most RC and light GA airplanes, that is usually ailerons.

That said, I want to experiment. I mean, that is kinda what we do here. I wonder if I could program some effective duckerons? What about a split rudder to act as an airbrake?

 

[L Edge]

What is "best" often comes down to the situation. For most RC and light GA airplanes, that is usually ailerons.

That said, I want to experiment. I mean, that is kinda what we do here. I wonder if I could program some effective duckerons? What about a split rudder to act as an airbrake?

As for the split rudder(airbrake), it does cause drag and slows it down, but it is a PITA to get the gap equal and usually ends up skewing the aircraft. Tried both single and dual setups on different airplanes.

 

[Foam Folder]

We probably opt for ailerons instead of spoilers because ailerons are more effective because they create drag and lift. As you have noticed that most general aviation aircraft have only ailerons. While most airliners have spoilers as well, it is ailerons that give the most control for roll about the longitudinal axis. As for the adverse yaw caused by ailerons, that one of the main reason we have rudders.

In model aviation, if we only had spoilers, we would have less roll authority. Aerobatics would greatly suffer.

The problem with ailerons is that lift and drag are created on the same side, if you have ever flown a wing that creates a high speed airfoil on the high side and a low speed airfoil on the low side, IE wing twist, you would see much tighter turns with less bank. I like the idea of wing tip rudder and aileron.