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ZOHD Talon Rebel GT aka the Galleon DT(FB)

#41
All the credit goes to CapnBry, I built the fuselage and tail to his plans. I did peel the outer paper and glass those parts with acrylic and .75oz fabric. I also taped over the edges with heavy duty packing tape after paint.

The wing is as spec’d with a 175mm chord but I upped the wingspan to 1.2m because there is plenty of foam and I knew it was going to be a heavy beast and wanted all the square inches I could get to try and keep the wing load reasonable. It’s built with simple strip “spars” to provide the profile and a carbon fiber arrow shaft as a center spar.

Speaking to the heavy part... There are quite a few 3D printed parts, all in TPU, from the lower tail fins, plugs that allow bolting in the tail/motor pod, gps housing and cover, plugs for bolting the wing down, a tab for the hatch, the nose piece that holds the session and micro eagle, wing servo covers, and vented covers for the wing mounted RX and VTX... whew. They are all one off designs and printed with minimal walls and infill to spare as much weight as possible but yeah, it’s a beast with an AUW darn near 950g.

I’ll snap a few more detail pics and it will be more obvious how minor all the alterations I made really are and should provide all you need to replicate it. If people are interested then I can upload the STL’s to thingiverse although some of them ended up being mod’d after printing and I never updated the fusion file or bothered to reprint.

On a side note, just finished a flight of about 15 minutes covering a little over 10 miles with a max distance from home of 3 miles. Not too shabby for a foam board plane loaded with mostly spare parts. As I said before the real credit goes to CapnBry, his plans were there and are already pretty darn good and I am looking forward to where this all ends up.
 
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#42
...I had the same issue with the PID gains being way too high and overshooting after Autotune. There was a whole lot of bob up and down especially, roll wasn't terrific, but yaw was ok...
Check your board alignment. I found I need about 3.5 degrees of tilt to keep a smooth and level flight in angle and horizon as they use that to determine “level”

Altitude hold uses throttle to maintain and I am still tweaking the pitch2thr setting to achieve a bobble free cruise.

-Clay
 

mayan

Well-known member
#43
@cmckamey I would love if you can update the files and share them with us. Like I said on an earlier post this is on my build list as air to ground footage and FPV have been on my do list for a long time now. @CapnBry again man you did an amazing job with this and have really gotten me hooked on mimicking you build. @cmckamey are you too using iNav? How hard is it to setup?
 

CapnBry

Well-known member
#44
@cmckamey it sounds like you really made some serious improvements. I'd love to see more pictures and flight videos so I can steal some ideas from your design into mine ;) All the custom 3D printed parts really give it a nice finished touch. I've got 3.0 degrees of board tilt set up in iNav too which is enough for it to slightly climb at 60kph cruise speed so I might knock that down to 2.5 degrees. My flight controller is on a little table inside under the wing (to make it easier to access the USB/microSD) so I might have cut some angle into the legs unintentionally. I think my tune is alright right now, at least watching LOS and reviewing the blackbox logs but I'm sure once I get up on FPV I'll be able to see a bit better.

How did you tackle the interesting puzzle of the nose area being angled so it can't accept a pod coming in the nose nor coming in from the hatch side? I was thinking a short enough pod could fit in from the nose but have a little play top to bottom, or if it came in from the hatch side it could fit top to bottom but have a little play side to side (this is how I did my previous Galleon's pod).

@mayan You've been following me along since the day I had the idea to build this and have always been encouraging. Almost time for you to get building! I'll get all my plans updates done tonight and post a new version as I make my FPV nose pod.
 
#45
@cmckamey...How did you tackle the interesting puzzle of the nose area being angled so it can't accept a pod coming in the nose nor coming in from the hatch side? I was thinking a short enough pod could fit in from the nose but have a little play top to bottom, or if it came in from the hatch side it could fit top to bottom but have a little play side to side (this is how I did my previous Galleon's pod)...
The part is designed with a taper on the sides but is flat on the top and bottom. Because its TPU it just squeezes in on the sides as you install it from the front and then the taper keeps it there. It rests flush against the top angled nose panel and if you look inside the hatch the bottom kind of "floats" above the area where the angle tips up right at the bottom of the nose. I know that probably doesn't help much but I'll snap a pic to include with the rest of the detail shots and it'll make perfect sense. That was one of the parts that I mod'd after printing as there was too much taper and it wanted to bulge the sides of the fuselage but I just took an exact-o knife and lopped off a little section of the corners and it fit like a glove. The very front of the printed part has a trough of sorts that the foam-board slides in so that the TPU actually wraps around the foam and protects that edge from delaminating and getting hanger rash too bad hopefully.

I'll snap some photos today and post them up, as well as maybe an edit of last nights mid-range jaunt at sunset.

-Clay
 

mayan

Well-known member
#46
@mayan You've been following me along since the day I had the idea to build this and have always been encouraging. Almost time for you to get building! I'll get all my plans updates done tonight and post a new version as I make my FPV nose pod.
Well I like the project and have always looked for a good platform for both fpv and a go pro and this seems like a great fit. I think you and @cmckamey are really taking this project some where and since my knowledge of iNav and such is very little I don’t have much to add. Also I am still not ready for FPV and not really managing good flights with pusher planes so I am still just to enjoy watching you too work this project out. I will be honest and say that I see this project becoming one of the most built projects in the future as it has a lot to offer anyone looking into
FPV.

@Arcfyre if you haven’t seen this thread yet you should I am pretty sure that you will like it :).
 

mayan

Well-known member
#47
@cmckamey please do edit the STL files too I think that will be a great contribution to @CapnBry ’s project and benefit us all. I am definitely interested in those. I also recommend you both put up the plans and STL files as resources.

BTW what FT motor pack do you think might work I am guessing a C pack? Think it will still work with a 6x4.5 prop?
 
#48
What a great project! You've taught me a lot about perseverance; if my designs don't fly right I lose patience and set the project aside.

I'm interested that you used black DTFB. When I bought some, I found that they easily de-laminated on me. Perhaps I just got a bad batch?
 

CapnBry

Well-known member
#49
It rests flush against the top angled nose panel and if you look inside the hatch the bottom kind of "floats" above the area where the angle tips up right at the bottom of the nose.
Oh no that definitely makes sense. I cut out a little foam board version that fit exactly into the space but needs to be crushed a little to fit in, and I thought maybe it would work if I just made the bottom flat and just let it float, or put a strip of scrap foam in the fuse at the aft end of the pod to support it. I really like the idea of wrapping around a little to protect the nose. I've already had to apply some packing tape to mine and I'm going to add small paper tabs to the top and sides like the bottom has to make them more robust.

BTW what FT motor pack do you think might work I am guessing a C pack? Think it will still work with a 6x4.5 prop?
I'm using a Turnigy AeroDrive SK3 2826 (~2212 actual size) 1130KV, which is very close to the Radial Edition B Pack (2212 1050KV). The Radial puts out 4% less thrust but draws 16% less power too. That would be just below a 1:1 thrust to weight ratio with a 8x4.5SF and even lower with a 8x6E so I'd say it is questionable. The Radial C Pack (2218 1180KV) is a fantastic fit on 3S with a 8x6E prop or 8x4.5SF. I don't think a 6" prop would work on 3S, but a 4S with a much higher KV (1500-1800?) would work as cmckamey has demonstrated. There is a bit of an issue with smaller stator height motors, since mine is 12mm tall and has a collet to hold the prop on, making it the about same size as a 2218. My prop clears the tail by only about 20mm.

I'm interested that you used black DTFB. When I bought some, I found that they easily de-laminated on me. Perhaps I just got a bad batch?
Could maybe have been stored somewhere humid or something before you bought it. I haven't noticed any significant difference in how stuck on the paper is between the white and black DTFB, but I don't use the black very often.
 
#50
..There is a bit of an issue with smaller stator height motors, since mine is 12mm tall and has a collet to hold the prop on, making it the about same size as a 2218. My prop clears the tail by only about 20mm...
I would kill for 20mm, I've got like 2mm maybe, lol. I'll be sure to add a pic in for laughs.

Honestly this is the only thing I want/need to change and only my laziness has prevented me. I even already have the STL for the spacer just haven't printed and installed it yet... It just flies so well now, lol.

As CapnBry said taller stators are gonna work out better as the plans stand now at least.

Also as CapnBry said, the "C" pack is probably the better option with some variant of an 8" prop. The 4s setup I'm running flys great with plenty of power to spare but I feel pretty confident that with the right motor/prop on a 3000mah 3s this a 45-60 minute plane all day long, heck maybe even longer if you aren't like me and keep the weight down better.

-Clay
 

mayan

Well-known member
#51
I feel like you using a smaller prop is making it want to roll less, unlike what @CapnBry has mentioned in the past. I really dig this project and will defenitly build one in the near furture and would appreciate all the help I can get from both of you. @cmckamey how did you make your wings, alsos hot wire from foam blocks?
 

CapnBry

Well-known member
#52
I haven't had any issue with weird rolls on the new build (yet) and haven't even broken a prop on landing either. Of course, I just bought 20pcs 8x6E props so that virtually guarantees that I won't break one, right?

I flew this morning for over 10 minutes, mostly between 55-65kph and the charger only put back in 795mAh of the 1400mAh pack. That would indicate I could probably do 30-35 minutes on a 3000mAh battery. This motor isn't the best though, it was only $9 on sale so I'm sure there are more efficient setups.
 
#53
@cmckamey I would love if you can update the files and share them with us. Like I said on an earlier post this is on my build list as air to ground footage and FPV have been on my do list for a long time now. @CapnBry again man you did an amazing job with this and have really gotten me hooked on mimicking you build. @cmckamey are you too using iNav? How hard is it to setup?
Sorry I missed this post somehow. Yeah I will try and look back over my fusion files and see what needs to be altered and post up some links to thingiverse when I can get some time.

My build is indeed running on iNav, v2.2.1 actually because, why not, lol. As far as setup goes it's fairly routine for a fixed wing config. I used the built in mini-talon mixer preset and only had to swap a couple weights to get the travel going in the right direction. The rest of the settings I changed will be pretty specific to your individual build and components but none of it should be too complicated.

-Clay
 
#54
...@cmckamey how did you make your wings, alsos hot wire from foam blocks?
It's built in the old school ExAir style. Double bevel at the leading edge, back side of the bottom is beveled as is the top side on the trailing edge. I peeled all the paper off the inside surfaces and on all the strip spars so they wouldn't delam down the road on me. Ailerons are just standard single bevel with heavy duty packing tape on both surfaces as a hinge.

It is built in two halves of course and a standard 31" carbon fiber arrow shaft is used as a center spar.

All the servo's and other hardware are cut into the underside of the wing and then covered in printed cover plates. The center spar area on the edges is utilized to mount the antennas and route the wires through.

I think this one pic should explain it way better than all my words, lol.

IMG_0053.jpeg

Hope that helps some.

-Clay
 
#55
Ok going to post a pic flood of detail shots for anyone interested in replicating the mod's and additions I've made to CapnBry's original v1 plans. Some of this may not apply exactly depending on what changes he has in store for v2 but the whole thing is still kind of fluid so maybe just watch along for now if you don't feel up for some experimentations and alterations, hehe.


This shot shows the lower fins and the plugs for bolting in the tail module. There is a matching set in the module and they are held in with the resin that I glassed the parts with. No nut required as the tolerances on the inside set are nil and the M3 bolts just thread in.
IMG_0069.jpeg

Here is a pic of the plugs that hold the wing down. These have a wide washer style head and are ribbed like a drywall anchor. A hole is poked into the wing and the plug is coated in gorilla glue and pressed in. Once that expands and drys removal is not happening without destroying the wing. There is tolerance on these plugs to allow an M3 bolt to pass thru and prevent binding when attaching the wing.
IMG_0070.jpeg

Not much to see here, just a little grab tab for the hatch to save crushing the sides over time. I also added a couple sets of magnets and glassed them in to hold down the hatch.
IMG_0072.jpeg

Looking nose to tail inside the fuselage.
IMG_0074.jpeg

A closer shot of the nose/camera mount from inside the fuselage.
IMG_0075.jpeg

And an outside shot showing the wrap-around detail.
IMG_0076.jpeg

Nose on view without the session in place.
IMG_0077.jpeg

Under wing cover plate details. The servo cover is held in with 4 screws that are coated in gorilla glue before screwing them in and the covers for the RX and VTX have an inset lip that holds them in the hole without fasteners.
IMG_0078.jpeg

Lower fin mounting detail. There is a thin piece of 1/16 balsa and some ply strips glued and glassed in with the fuselage that make up the structure that this is bolted thru.
IMG_0080.jpeg

The wing "centerer" and connection detail and a view of the fore wing mount from the top down.
IMG_0083.jpeg

A closer shot of the fore wing mount. The aft mount is a copy just sized to fit the more narrow opening. M3 nuts are epoxied to the underside to receive the wing bolts.
IMG_0085.jpeg

This detail I'm particularly proud of. I resin'd the mounts in but I also pre-drilled holes in the vertical parts. After placing them I dug out the foam but didn't break thru the outer surface and then gorilla glued in short dowel plugs. It's like bamboo skewers in a standard FT build only super short and added a ton of strength to the mount/fuselage connection.
IMG_0087.jpeg

And as promised and for laughs here is a shot of my tail and propeller clearance currently. As I have said in previous posts I have a spacer designed just need to print and install it. eventually...
IMG_0081.jpeg

Lay any questions or comments on me and as I write this post an edit of my latest sight seeing trip is uploading. I will drop a link when it goes live.

-Clay
 
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mayan

Well-known member
#56
Ok going to post a pic flood of detail shots for anyone interested in replicating the mod's and additions I've made to CapnBry's original v1 plans. Some of this may not apply exactly depending on what changes he has in store for v2 but the whole thing is still kind of fluid so maybe just watch along for now if you don't feel up for some experimentations and alterations, hehe.


This shot shows the lower fins and the plugs for bolting in the tail module. There is a matching set in the module and they are held in with the resin that I glassed the parts with. No nut required as the tolerances on the inside set are nil and the M3 bolts just thread in.
View attachment 137541

Here is a pic of the plugs that hold the wing down. These have a wide washer style head and are ribbed like a drywall anchor. A hole is poked into the wing and the plug is coated in gorilla glue and pressed in. Once that expands and drys removal is not happening without destroying the wing. There is tolerance on these plugs to allow an M3 bolt to pass thru and prevent binding when attaching the wing.
View attachment 137542

Not much to see here, just a little grab tab for the hatch to save crushing the sides over time. I also added a couple sets of magnets and glassed them in to hold down the hatch.
View attachment 137543

Looking nose to tail inside the fuselage.
View attachment 137544

A closer shot of the nose/camera mount from inside the fuselage.
View attachment 137545

And an outside shot showing the wrap-around detail.
View attachment 137546

Nose on view without the session in place.
View attachment 137547

Under wing cover plate details. The servo cover is held in with 4 screws that are coated in gorilla glue before screwing them in and the covers for the RX and VTX have an inset lip that holds them in the hole without fasteners.
View attachment 137548

Lower fin mounting detail. There is a thin piece of 1/16 balsa and some ply strips glued and glassed in with the fuselage that make up the structure that this is bolted thru.
View attachment 137549

The wing "centerer" and connection detail and a view of the fore wing mount from the top down.
View attachment 137550

A closer shot of the fore wing mount. The aft mount is a copy just sized to fit the more narrow opening. M3 nuts are epoxied to the underside to receive the wing bolts.
View attachment 137551

This detail I'm particularly proud of. I resin'd the mounts in but I also pre-drilled holes in the vertical parts. After placing them I dug out the foam but didn't break thru the outer surface and then gorilla glued in short dowel plugs. It's like bamboo skewers in a standard FT build only super short and added a ton of strength to the mount/fuselage connection.
View attachment 137552

And as promised and for laughs here is a shot of my tail and propeller clearance currently. As I have said in previous posts I have a spacer designed just need to print and install it. eventually...
View attachment 137553

Lay any questions or comments on me and as I write this post an edit of my latest sight seeing trip is uploading. I will drop a link when it goes live.

-Clay
Clay you did a great job with this love your mods and will definitely use them when I build up this model :).
 

CapnBry

Well-known member
#57
Holy cow, that is very close you weren't kidding! I also love the plywood+dowels for a super strong mounting solution, and the ethernet cables to keystone jacks for connecting the wing wiring. I really like the way the original Talon GT Rebel has those 6 pin snap in connectors on each wing and idly browsed some automotive style connectors looking for something but I already have ethernet cables and keystones on hand so that's a great idea.

Here's the clearance on my tail:
DSC06621.JPG

I can definitely see how a shorter motor with a conventional threaded shaft could start to be an issue, along with the small gap in your V-tail control surfaces (if they're still the full 30mm wide). My insides are a lot more basic than yours
DSC06620.JPG

The GPS I just cut a square out of the top foam and put a new strip of foam underneath and secured it with double-sided tape. I've done this many times and it is usually secure in all but the most catastrophic of crashes. I also put a tiny 3/16"x1/16" magnet in the hatch stopper location and a tiny strip of galvanized metal hot glued and taped to the hatch top.

EDIT: I gotta try some of that TPU filament, your squishy camera mount is pretty cool.
 
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#58
...I can definitely see how a shorter motor with a conventional threaded shaft could start to be an issue, along with the small gap in your V-tail control surfaces (if they're still the full 30mm wide)...
I am starting to think that the smaller prop and tight clearance is actually improving elevator authority, lol. The thing will climb like a rocket if you pull back on the stick in manual mode. The gap I'm not too happy with but I was worried about how the tape hinge would adhere to the glassed surface especially being that close to the prop and in the wash. In hindsight they probably would have been fine but i had the plastic pin hinges and I know they won't give way. Thats a pretty zoomed in pic and the gap is only a couple 2mm or so max and like i said doesn't seem to effect the performance too adversely so I'm just going to live with it.

...EDIT: I gotta try some of that TPU filament, your squishy camera mount is pretty cool...
TPU is awesome man! absolute indestructible basically and never loses its flex. I've broken carbon fiber plates and arms on quads only to find the wreckage hold together by the TPU parts which are all in perfect condition. It does need to be printed slowly... like painfully slow but the results are totally worth it.

Also I posted an edit of the mid-range flight I made a couple days ago and am including a link.

Short Duration, Mid-Range flight

-Clay
 

CapnBry

Well-known member
#59
I've added the updated plans to the first post. Changes:
  • Aft Top now part of fuselage
  • Forward Former height reduced 4.5mm
  • Paper flaps added to other 3 nose edges
  • Skewer relief reduced from 3.5 to 3mm
  • V-Tail 40 degree angle gauge added
  • Increased size of under-fuselage tail flap 2.5mm for better fit
  • Aft Former height reduced 1mm
  • Power Pod height increased 3.5mm
  • V-Tail made thinner, now sits inside fuselage. Added reliefs inside edges to avoid fuselage. In retrospect I might make it wider again so it sits on top, but I've already made this change so /shrug.
  • FPV Pod part added
DSC06622.JPG

The FPV pod is just the outside shell, with the top angled and sides to match the fuselage but the bottom flat. It slides in no problem and a scrap piece of foam on the bottom of the fuselage keeps it propped up. I made the mistake of making my camera fit too far back, but the real one should have a piece of foam across the entire front of the plane to keep it from sliding back. Just lay the nose front-down on a piece of foam and cut out the outline. A magnet on the top holds it in place.
 

CapnBry

Well-known member
#60
Here's the FPV Pod from the plans built up with extra holes and supports to hold the two cameras. The front plate keeps it looking good and from going in too far (it actually doesn't want to go further back because it is wide and the fuselage narrows). The shape along with a scrap bar of foam glued in the fuselage holds it in ok, and a magnet on top helps as well. It pops out without too much force, but I don't think this will be a problem in flight unless there's a pretty good amount of deceleration. I might replace the magnet with a 3D printed bushing and have a stud that comes in from the top or something if I am too worried about it.
DSC06624.JPG DSC06628.JPG DSC06629.JPG DSC06630.JPG

The cameras (Foxeer Monster V3 Mini Pro and Akaso V50 Pro) fit in together without cutting holes in the sides, but this way really locks them in place with a strip of foam between them. On the FPV camera side, you can see I traced the Foxeer profile, cut it out, then put the plug back in, since the camera only goes in 1-2mm due to the wire harness. Only going in a small amount has the advantage of being able to come out again without breaking the foam support. The 4K camera just levers into place and you can see I once again did a terrible job at cutting out where the buttons need to be and an even worse job of taking care of the $110 camera. The damage is from the high speed impact that destroyed the previous build, but it still records! (hashtag silver lining)

I am ready to fly FPV again! My flying weight is now 662g with a CG about 37-38mm back from the leading edge. Hopefully can get out today to fly it but there's more construction at my house today to try and save it from itself (throws money in the air) so I'm not sure I will be able to get away.
2019-08-01-2.jpg
 
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