My first balsa build in 30 years

TooJung2Die

Master member
You call it tyvek, a Dupont trademark. At Space&Comm, we called it tynar. Ours was a woven fabric, but I think I described it well enough. The envelope flaps usually arent colored.
Thanks for educating me. I Googled tynar and didn’t get any hits so I assumed it was a misspelling. By either name I agree it’s a great hinge material. If you don’t mind paying a dollar you can buy blank white Tyvek envelopes at mailbox stores.
 

kkelly

Member
Thanks for educating me. I Googled tynar and didn’t get any hits so I assumed it was a misspelling. By either name I agree it’s a great hinge material. If you don’t mind paying a dollar you can buy blank white Tyvek envelopes at mailbox stores.
I also searched for tynar and didn't find anything, so I figured it was no longer available. The CA hinges shipped, so I must have found the only ones in existence at the moment. Once I use them all up (because of course there will be more balsa builds) I'll try Tyvek/tynar.
 

Piotrsko

Master member
You may want to pin them also after they are assembled, just in case. Never had a known failure, but flutter is an evil thing. Buy an envelope when fedex gives them out for free? That's Heresey I say
 

kkelly

Member
CA hinges would work fine. My technique for them is to cut the slots and then drill a hole from the top down through whatever surface is having a hinge glued into it; this then allows you to glue the hinge with zero gap and not risk accidentally gluing the wing and aileron or whatever together. You can then stick a toothpick into that hole and sand it smooth for an extra measure of safety.
Does the hole need to go all the way through the surface so I can add glue from both sides, or just through the top and the hinge without coming out the other side?
 

speedbirdted

Legendary member
For simplicity's sake I would just drill all the way through. This will let you put the toothpick or whatever you pin the hinge with all the way through and then it can be cut down and sanded on both sides.

I only add glue from one side, and have never experienced a hinge failure caused by inadequate gluing. CA hinges by nature are designed to absorb glue very well, and generally will do so regardless of where the glue gets applied from. There's nothing wrong with doing it from both sides, it's just extra work for little measurable benefit.

It is worth mentioning I do not drill the hole while the hinge is in place in the control surface; I remove it first. That way the glue can be applied to the hinge through the hole with less of it running out the other side and soaking into the outer surface of whatever is being glued. You can then either run the drill through again to clear the hole or just punch through it with the toothpick.
 
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kkelly

Member
For simplicity's sake I would just drill all the way through. This will let you put the toothpick or whatever you pin the hinge with all the way through and then it can be cut down and sanded on both sides.

I only add glue from one side, and have never experienced a hinge failure caused by inadequate gluing. CA hinges by nature are designed to absorb glue very well, and generally will do so regardless of where the glue gets applied from. There's nothing wrong with doing it from both sides, it's just extra work for little measurable benefit.

It is worth mentioning I do not drill the hole while the hinge is in place in the control surface; I remove it first. That way the glue can be applied to the hinge through the hole with less of it running out the other side and soaking into the outer surface of whatever is being glued. You can then either run the drill through again to clear the hole or just punch through it with the toothpick.
I have the hinges, and I have the Parklite. It's time to finish the build. Since you drill through the parts being hinged I presume you install the hinges before covering the model. How hard is it to get a good seal of the covering film around the area of the hinge, particularly between the hinged surfaces?

I'm unsure how many hinges I should use for each control surface. Is there a recommended number per foot or something like that?
 

speedbirdted

Legendary member
I have the hinges, and I have the Parklite. It's time to finish the build. Since you drill through the parts being hinged I presume you install the hinges before covering the model. How hard is it to get a good seal of the covering film around the area of the hinge, particularly between the hinged surfaces?

I work in that order pretty much. All the cutting of slots and drilling is done before any covering goes down, but before I glue the hinges in I will cover just the areas that become unreachable when the control surface is installed. Here's a good example of this technique on a build I did a while ago:

Screenshot_20210424-221904.png


The wingtips and center section are also covered, but that's of no concern. You just cover the interior of the cutout for the aileron and just a little bit of the top and bottom surface directly next to it. You only need to go outwards maybe 1/8 inch, and this leaves the hole for the toothpick uncovered, so the toothpick can be glued in and sanded away without sanding scratches into the covering. At this stage also cut out the main wing covering to shape using the aileron cutout and wing themselves itself to trace it, but don't apply it until the aileron is installed. Make sure not to have any covering that oversteps into the aileron cutout as trying to stick it down is a pain and it also looks ugly going around the corner unless you cut it - and plus, you have a bit of wiggle room provided by the covering applied before the aileron went on. It's less critical to get a healthy overlap here because this is an electric airplane, but on nitro planes you absolutely must seal this as well as you can or else oil will creep in and ruin the wood.

It's worth noting that I prefer to glue the hinges into the control surfaces first. I don't know why, maybe it's just a me thing, but I always have much less trouble trying to slot in hinges glued on the surface side first.

Another tip very useful with the lighter colored films is that to avoid losing your slots under the covering, go over them with a sharpie. It will show through the covering and then when you go to cut a slot through it you don't have to hunt down the slot in the wood all over again.

I'm unsure how many hinges I should use for each control surface. Is there a recommended number per foot or something like that?

Four on each aileron, five on the elevator, and three on the rudder. That's what I would do if I was the one building this plane. It gives redundancy if you break a hinge while not being overkill. (Hinges have weight too, it's small, but assuming objects to be massless does not help build light airplanes)

Funnily enough a long time ago I figured out this really complicated formula for that exact task, taking into account things like the intended airspeed, wing loadings, intended hinges, bending strength of the control surfaces, all that jazz... but just eyeballing it works good enough, so I don't even use it anymore :p

Hinge placement matters a lot too. If you can, put a hinge directly in-line with wherever the control horns on each surface are. A lot of the time people don't do this, and it costs control authority because the force applied to the surface by the control horn will often go towards bowing the surface up and down a small amount between hinges instead of actually moving it, which placing a hinge right there will eradicate. It also helps reduce twisting forces applied to the hinges which will help them last longer. It also allows you to skip pinning that particular hinge as often the screws holding the control horn on will take over that job instead. :p
 

kkelly

Member
I work in that order pretty much. All the cutting of slots and drilling is done before any covering goes down, but before I glue the hinges in I will cover just the areas that become unreachable when the control surface is installed. Here's a good example of this technique on a build I did a while ago:

View attachment 198997

The wingtips and center section are also covered, but that's of no concern. You just cover the interior of the cutout for the aileron and just a little bit of the top and bottom surface directly next to it. You only need to go outwards maybe 1/8 inch, and this leaves the hole for the toothpick uncovered, so the toothpick can be glued in and sanded away without sanding scratches into the covering. At this stage also cut out the main wing covering to shape using the aileron cutout and wing themselves itself to trace it, but don't apply it until the aileron is installed. Make sure not to have any covering that oversteps into the aileron cutout as trying to stick it down is a pain and it also looks ugly going around the corner unless you cut it - and plus, you have a bit of wiggle room provided by the covering applied before the aileron went on. It's less critical to get a healthy overlap here because this is an electric airplane, but on nitro planes you absolutely must seal this as well as you can or else oil will creep in and ruin the wood.

It's worth noting that I prefer to glue the hinges into the control surfaces first. I don't know why, maybe it's just a me thing, but I always have much less trouble trying to slot in hinges glued on the surface side first.

Another tip very useful with the lighter colored films is that to avoid losing your slots under the covering, go over them with a sharpie. It will show through the covering and then when you go to cut a slot through it you don't have to hunt down the slot in the wood all over again.



Four on each aileron, five on the elevator, and three on the rudder. That's what I would do if I was the one building this plane. It gives redundancy if you break a hinge while not being overkill. (Hinges have weight too, it's small, but assuming objects to be massless does not help build light airplanes)

Funnily enough a long time ago I figured out this really complicated formula for that exact task, taking into account things like the intended airspeed, wing loadings, intended hinges, bending strength of the control surfaces, all that jazz... but just eyeballing it works good enough, so I don't even use it anymore :p

Hinge placement matters a lot too. If you can, put a hinge directly in-line with wherever the control horns on each surface are. A lot of the time people don't do this, and it costs control authority because the force applied to the surface by the control horn will often go towards bowing the surface up and down a small amount between hinges instead of actually moving it, which placing a hinge right there will eradicate. It also helps reduce twisting forces applied to the hinges which will help them last longer. It also allows you to skip pinning that particular hinge as often the screws holding the control horn on will take over that job instead. :p
After this masterclass in hinge installation I think I'm good to go. I'm a tiny bit concerned about the thickness of the ailerons and the wing trailing edge (1/8" if I recall correctly; not at home right now), but it looks like there is enough wood there to cut hinge slots without compromising their strength. I'm going to start with the rudder as it should be the simplest one, and the wood is thicker. This is the part of the build where I can seriously go off into the weeds due to perfectionism. If a control surface isn't perfectly aligned it will bother me.
 

Piotrsko

Master member
Ummm, you're essentially gluing the assembly back together into a solid piece with a reinforcement material. It won't break there but right next to the hinge.
 

kkelly

Member
The balsa the hinges will go into on the horizontal and vertical stabilizers is only 3/16" deep, so the hinges go all the way through and stick out the other side about 5/16". Is that enough grip (I'm also doing the toothpick trick) or do I need to thicken up those spots?
 

FlyingTyger

Elite member
The balsa the hinges will go into on the horizontal and vertical stabilizers is only 3/16" deep, so the hinges go all the way through and stick out the other side about 5/16". Is that enough grip (I'm also doing the toothpick trick) or do I need to thicken up those spots?
A small block to give the hinge more material to adhere to is never a bad idea. It's ok if some of the hinge will stick thru, but 3/16 is a pretty small glue area. I would add another 1/4" of balsa at each hinge location.
 

kkelly

Member
It's been a rather slow week of building. I have the tail surfaces covered and hinged:
IMG_4302.jpg


The wing is taking a while, largely due to time spent installing the hinges. I was meticulous about it, but I still managed to cut some slots crooked and split the wood on an aileron. Fortunately I had enough scrap balsa on hand to remake it. Speaking of hinges, they don't make 'em like they used to. More than half of them were delaminating right out of the package and the outer layers completely peeled off if I tried to push them into a slot. I had to go through a couple packages of them to find enough that would hold together.

I'm eager to get this plane up in the air, but mindful of not rushing anything and screwing it up. We're finally starting to get regular good flying days here.
 

kkelly

Member
The plane is almost finished! I'd include more pictures, but it's currently rigged up with a bunch of stuff holding things in place while the glue on the vertical stabilizer dries. The servos are all installed. I just have to take the rest of the electronics out of a foamie that's retiring so I can install them.

I have more unidentified components from the kit:
IMG_4315.jpg

There are four of them, and they're just about the right size to fit snugly onto the gear wire. Are they to hold the wheels in place? The plans mention wheel collars, but none were included.
 

kkelly

Member
Wheel collars / retainers is my guess. See if they fit the landing gear wires
Yep, wheel collars.

Because I apparently like to make things harder for myself I didn't check ahead of time that the X mount for my FT Radial will fit into the cowling. It's a little too big, and the holes are only slightly off from the pre-drilled ones in the firewall so re-drilling it will just make a mess. I have a sheet of 3mm craft plywood*. Can I just cut a disc of that, drill it, screw the motor to the disc, and screw the disc to the firewall?

* The label says "not for aircraft use". Does that mean "don't build a full-size plane from it", or is it not safe for models as well?
 
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speedbirdted

Legendary member
Yep, wheel collars.

Because I apparently like to make things harder for myself I didn't check ahead of time that the X mount for my FT Radial will fit into the cowling. It's a little too big, and the holes are only slightly off from the pre-drilled ones in the firewall so re-drilling it will just make a mess. I have a sheet of 3mm craft plywood*. Can I just cut a disc of that, drill it, screw the motor to the disc, and screw the disc to the firewall?

That will work. You could also glue the disk on, if you're extra confident in it never needing to come back out. Don't use CA for this task though as if it gets into the motor you will just have a solid chunk of nose weight that you then won't be able to get back out to fix.

* The label says "not for aircraft use". Does that mean "don't build a full-size plane from it", or is it not safe for models as well?

It will be fine on a model but don't build a full-size plane using it. What you have is probably either made from poplar or birch/balsa (usually known as liteply) Aircraft grade plywood is usually made from mahogany and birch, and uses a very durable adhesive, but carries a weight penalty when used outside full-scale applications.
 

Piotrsko

Master member
Aircraft ply has a bunch of other funny requirements like the glues used and the component lamination have to be same thickness, and waterproof, no oval shaped fixes, etc. All of which do not relate to our hobby but make it very expensive. The homebuilders can substitute marine ply.

There is a technique where you throw your aircraft plywood into your swimming pool for a couple of days to get it soft enough to make a compound bend on the wing tips. Dont try that with stuff you buy locally it won't be pretty.
 

kkelly

Member
So this happened:
IMG_4325.jpg

How serious is that break? Will it still work reliably with the remote receiver connected or do I need to replace the antenna?