naze32 / taranis / d4r-ii very sensitive throttle issue??

SHORT VERSION: best way i can describe the issue is like this: the quad feels like it's as light as a feather. Like there's GOBS of power. So much that I pretty much can't get it to hover because the throttle "activation" point is almost getting it up in the air. So adding a little more of throttle makes it climb too fast, and when I let off a bit, it starts to fall.

DETAILED VERSION:

hey ya'll

ive been pulling my hair out all night trying to figure this one out...it seems that for some reason my throttle range has shrunk down to about the width of a human hair. ok, i'm exaggerating..but it's very tight all of a sudden, so when trying to take off my 250 quad it POPS up hard in the air with little throttle. and then, because of the small throttle range, the motors practically go silent and stop when i try to ease off.

I recently added a taranis & d4r-ii into the mix, but these new parts HAVE flown normally with this setup before. Last night I cleaned up some wiring with zip ties etc, built a new landing gear...but can't think of anything else i did that wouldve cause this...but when I went out this morning I discovered this problem (edit: i later realized i also switched from 6x4.5 props to 6x3.0)

Sorry so..to cut to the chase, this is what troubleshooting i've done (after checking as many simple things as i could think of):
i resorted to reflashing my naze32 back to almost stock(except motor_stop and telemetry etc but zero PID or rate changes)
put in a spare 2nd naze32 with the same vanilla config
swapped out the d4r-ii with a 2nd one
ESC calibration, like in this video,
leveled ACC calibrations (i literally used a level lol)
verified correct orientation using baseflight to make sure my board align params were ok (my naze32 is upsidedown and rotated 90*)

as you can imagine, since im posting here...i havent found out the solution. What the heck is going on? It's probably something simple I've overlooked. My IT troubleshooting brain has me staring at the taranis, because it's the only remaining suspect i have...but i'll be damned if i know what i did to it that made the throttle range the width of an atom! :black_eyed:
(apologies for the typos/lack of grammar but my brain is fried at this point!)


edit: oh, also..I checked the throttle range in baseflight when using the taranis, and it looks normal. range is 1000-2000 & stick movement seems correlate properly in baseflight..so no crazy curves upward to max throttle that i could see.

and heres a dump of the most recent naze32 baseflight config:

Code:
23:37:22 -- Running - OS: Windows, Chrome: 39.0.2171.95, Configurator: 0.58
23:37:29 -- Serial port successfully opened with ID: 12
23:37:29 -- Unique device ID received - 0x66dff505256656767145534
23:37:30 -- Running firmware released on: Dec 6 2014
23:37:50 -- EEPROM saved
23:37:50 -- Device - Rebooting
23:37:53 -- Device - Ready
23:38:29 -- Accelerometer calibration started
23:38:31 -- Accelerometer calibration finished
23:38:35 -- Serial port successfully closed
23:38:39 -- Serial port successfully opened with ID: 13
23:38:39 -- Unique device ID received - 0x66dff505256656767145534
23:38:39 -- Running firmware released on: Dec 6 2014
Setup
Configuration
PID Tuning
Receiver
Mode Selection
Servos
GPS
Motor Testing
Raw Sensor Data
Logging
CLI
Note: Leaving CLI tab or pressing Disconnect will automatically send "exit" to the board, which will make the controller save all the changes and restart.
Entering CLI Mode, type 'exit' to return, or 'help'

# dump
Afro32 CLI version 2.3 Dec 6 2014 / 10:10:33Current Config: Copy everything below here...
aux 0 0
aux 1 0
aux 2 0
aux 3 0
aux 4 0
aux 5 0
aux 6 0
aux 7 0
aux 8 0
aux 9 0
aux 10 0
aux 11 0
aux 12 0
aux 13 0
aux 14 0
aux 15 0
aux 16 0
aux 17 0
aux 18 0
aux 19 0
aux 20 0
mixer QUADX
feature -PPM
feature -VBAT
feature -INFLIGHT_ACC_CAL
feature -SERIALRX
feature -MOTOR_STOP
feature -SERVO_TILT
feature -SOFTSERIAL
feature -LED_RING
feature -GPS
feature -FAILSAFE
feature -SONAR
feature -TELEMETRY
feature -POWERMETER
feature -VARIO
feature -3D
feature PPM
feature VBAT
feature MOTOR_STOP
feature TELEMETRY
feature POWERMETER
map AETR1234
set looptime = 3500
set emf_avoidance = 0
set midrc = 1500
set minthrottle = 1150
set maxthrottle = 1850
set mincommand = 1000
set mincheck = 1100
set maxcheck = 1900
set deadband3d_low = 1406
set deadband3d_high = 1514
set neutral3d = 1460
set deadband3d_throttle = 50
set motor_pwm_rate = 400
set servo_pwm_rate = 50
set pwm_filter = 0
set retarded_arm = 0
set disarm_kill_switch = 1
set flaps_speed = 0
set fixedwing_althold_dir = 1
set reboot_character = 82
set serial_baudrate = 115200
set softserial_baudrate = 9600
set softserial_1_inverted = 0
set softserial_2_inverted = 0
set gps_type = 0
set gps_baudrate = 0
set gps_ubx_sbas = 0
set serialrx_type = 0
set spektrum_sat_bind = 0
set spektrum_sat_on_flexport = 0
set telemetry_provider = 0
set telemetry_port = 0
set telemetry_switch = 0
set vbatscale = 110
set currentscale = 400
set currentoffset = 0
set multiwiicurrentoutput = 0
set vbatmaxcellvoltage = 43
set vbatmincellvoltage = 33
set power_adc_channel = 0
set align_gyro = 0
set align_acc = 0
set align_mag = 0
set align_board_roll = 180
set align_board_pitch = 0
set align_board_yaw = 90
set yaw_control_direction = 1
set acc_hardware = 0
set mag_hardware = 0
set max_angle_inclination = 500
set moron_threshold = 32
set gyro_lpf = 42
set gyro_cmpf_factor = 600
set gyro_cmpfm_factor = 250
set pid_controller = 0
set deadband = 0
set yawdeadband = 0
set alt_hold_throttle_neutral = 40
set alt_hold_fast_change = 1
set throttle_correction_value = 0
set throttle_correction_angle = 800
set rc_rate = 90
set rc_expo = 65
set thr_mid = 50
set thr_expo = 0
set roll_pitch_rate = 0
set yaw_rate = 0
set tpa_rate = 0
set tpa_breakpoint = 1500
set failsafe_delay = 10
set failsafe_off_delay = 200
set failsafe_throttle = 1200
set failsafe_detect_threshold = 985
set rssi_aux_channel = 0
set rssi_adc_channel = 0
set rssi_adc_max = 4095
set rssi_adc_offset = 0
set yaw_direction = 1
set tri_unarmed_servo = 1
set gimbal_flags = 1
set acc_lpf_factor = 4
set accxy_deadband = 40
set accz_deadband = 40
set acc_unarmedcal = 1
set small_angle = 25
set acc_trim_pitch = 0
set acc_trim_roll = 0
set baro_tab_size = 21
set baro_noise_lpf = 0.600
set baro_cf_vel = 0.985
set baro_cf_alt = 0.965
set accz_lpf_cutoff = 5.000
set mag_declination = 0
set gps_pos_p = 11
set gps_pos_i = 0
set gps_pos_d = 0
set gps_posr_p = 20
set gps_posr_i = 8
set gps_posr_d = 45
set gps_nav_p = 14
set gps_nav_i = 20
set gps_nav_d = 80
set gps_wp_radius = 200
set nav_controls_heading = 1
set nav_speed_min = 100
set nav_speed_max = 300
set nav_slew_rate = 30
set p_pitch = 40
set i_pitch = 30
set d_pitch = 23
set p_roll = 40
set i_roll = 30
set d_roll = 23
set p_yaw = 85
set i_yaw = 45
set d_yaw = 0
set p_alt = 50
set i_alt = 0
set d_alt = 0
set p_level = 90
set i_level = 10
set d_level = 100
set p_vel = 120
set i_vel = 45
set d_vel = 1
 
Last edited:

joshuabardwell

Senior Member
Mentor
Some questions.

1) On the RF monitor screen in the Taranis, does the throttle channel show smooth response from -100 to +100 as you move the stick?

2) In BaseFlight, on the "Receiver" tab, same question. Does the FC show smooth response from 1000 to 2000 on the input channel?

EDIT: Whoops. It looks like you answered that question.

Okay, then... what happens when you plug an ESC direct in to the throttle channel on the receiver?

If the Taranis is sending 1000 to 2000 with 1500 as the center, then that's all you can ask of it. It's got to be somewhere else.
 
best way i can describe the issue is like this: the quad feels like it's as light as a feather. Like there's GOBS of power. So much that I pretty much can't get it to hover because the throttle "activation" point is almost getting it up in the air. So adding a few clicks of throttle make it climb too fast, and when I lower the throttle to compensate it starts to fall
 

Mustang7302

Senior Member
These three settings will soften up the throttle input making it more manageable to hold a hover:

set minthrottle = 1075
set thr_mid = 40
set thr_expo = 25

These settings are pilot preferences, but here are the settings I use for a casual fun flying mini:

set rc_rate = 110
set rc_expo = 10
set roll_pitch_rate = 50
set yaw_rate = 70
set tpa_rate = 20
 

joshuabardwell

Senior Member
Mentor
If the issue is your actual throttle response, then throttle expo is the way to address it. Here is how to set throttle expo. First, determine at what percent throttle your copter hovers. If you can do this in flight, so much the better. You can also do it by holding the copter CAREFULLY in one hand and throttling up until you just feel it start to get weightless. Once you have determined your hover point, set thr_mid = XX where XX is the throttle hover percentage. So if you hovered at 40% throttle, you would "set thr_mid = 40". Next, set the amount of expo. What the expo will do is "flatten out" your throttle curve so you have a lot of resolution around the hover point. Mustang suggests a throttle expo of 25, but I would say go even higher. I fly with a throttle expo of 55% on my ElectroHub. An acro copter may eventually find that it wants more resolution at the top of the throttle range, for better speed/altitude control, but at least in the beginning, don't be shy. Focus on getting good control in a hover and then reduce expo from there.

More on the topic of throttle expo:

http://multicopterworld.com/2011/04/multicopter-throttle-curve/
 
thanks guys i'll try those when i get home.

one more thing: i tried setting the 'weight' on the taranis to 50 (from 100) an it still does the same thing. not sure if 'weight' is the correct value to change though...
 

HawkMan

Senior Member
In addition to setting a throttle curve on the taranis, or instead of, you could also try using a battery with one less cell, if you're using a 4S you could use a 3S or try proper with less pitch, which might give you better flight time as well.
 
Mustang7302: I had a chance to sneak out at work and try those CLI settings...same problem :(

I tried shooting a video of it, I'm uploading it now

In addition to setting a throttle curve on the taranis, or instead of, you could also try using a battery with one less cell, if you're using a 4S you could use a 3S or try proper with less pitch, which might give you better flight time as well.

I thought of the same, except I'm already only using 3S.

And the last 'normal' flight was on 6x4.5 props...then I switched to 6x3. I can't imagine those props could be causing the issue??
 

not the best example, but I've broken so many dang props and landing gears (hence the janky landing gear :p) & I'm afraid it's going to go completely bonkers and fly off or something.
 
Last edited:
SunnySky X2204 2300k, MS 12amp ESC (SimonK RapidESC), MRSS 3S 1300mAh 35C, Naze32, AUW = 434g. Plus my shitty landing gear which probably added about ~50g

i'm following ya'll on that theory, and it could be possible, but what I then don't understand is how I flew this exact combo (except with more aggressive props..6x4.5) on 3S and it was quite manageable. I even tried 4S too, but only for about 5mins...it was too bonkers lol.

edit: Well I guess I'll just try adding more weight when I got home from work...easy enough
 
Last edited:

joshuabardwell

Senior Member
Mentor
Well I guess I'll just try adding more weight when I got home from work...easy enough

Throttle expo is the answer, if indeed being overpowered is the problem. Your power setup is quite nominal, but 434 grams sounds a bit light for a 250 class. I think most of them tend to come in around 500-600 grams.
 

HawkMan

Senior Member
I'm no expert, but it could be that your 6x4.5 props where simply to aggressive with to much pitch for the size of the prop and where simply spinning air not moving it. So it's lack of efficiency simply made it more flyable.

Either way set up an aggressive expo curve on the throttle and use the 6x3's and it should be fine. You could even cap the throttle output so don't max it out.
 

mikemacwillie

Senior Member
You might want to look at decreasing the D term for pitch and roll as well. A D term that is too high can cause the altitude to be quite unstable.
 
Throttle expo is the answer, if indeed being overpowered is the problem. Your power setup is quite nominal, but 434 grams sounds a bit light for a 250 class. I think most of them tend to come in around 500-600 grams.

I'll try to fiddle around with the taranis and setup some expo, thanks


I'm no expert, but it could be that your 6x4.5 props where simply to aggressive with to much pitch for the size of the prop and where simply spinning air not moving it. So it's lack of efficiency simply made it more flyable.

Either way set up an aggressive expo curve on the throttle and use the 6x3's and it should be fine. You could even cap the throttle output so don't max it out.

I had the same thought driving home! Perhaps the pitch was so extreme it caused enough drag that it was a struggle to spin them and made it fly-able.

I strapped a 200g wrench under the battery and did some in-house testing. It seems a bit more timid, but still quite over-aggressive. Easily took off. Very bouncy take-off (but I reallllyyy eased on the throttle, not sure if the prop-wash caused that)

You might want to look at decreasing the D term for pitch and roll as well. A D term that is too high can cause the altitude to be quite unstable.

What do you recommend?