"Nothin' Extra", by Northern Model Aircraft Co.

Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
Mentor
Big updates to the engine, thanks to parts from B&B Specialties. They have a lot of items for Zenoah, Quadra, and US Engines. This Zenoah needed a good motor mount, so I got the B&B version, along with the bellcrank setup for the throttle. The stock orientation of the throttle needs a pushrod running almost vertical, instead of inline with the fuselage. This bellcrank arrangement simply changes the pushrod direction by 90*, making it far easier to control the throttle. I had to make a bracket to hold it, which needs a little sanding to remove the sharp edges. The carb got new gaskets and a new spacer between the carb and cylinder, and will also get a new plug cap & wire from them in the next few days. Last on the engine upgrades (for now) is the B&B Power Ram, which is a velocity stack that is supposed to improve airflow into the carb. No idea if it works or not, but it looks good. :) Once the plug wire/cap are installed it should be ready to test run. I'll get a servo installed for the throttle later tonight or tomorrow, so if weather is decent this weekend I can fire it up.

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Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
Mentor
The throttle linkage is finally just about done. It needed this crazy setup to work properly, and now I'll just need to do the final tweaks once the engine is running. Speaking of that, all I need is the replacement plug wire & cap and it can be tested. Well, I should probably run a kill switch to the magneto for safety... :) The fuel system is complete and the remaining big job is making a mount for the batteries, receiver, and power block. The plane will have a pair of 2200mAh 2 cell packs, just like my Rascal 110. That should give me FAR more power than I'll need for even the longest day at the field. For now I'll have to hand-prop it, until I get the correct screw size needed to mount the spinner.

 

Bricks

Master member
^^^^ That worked out very nicely good job. Just a dumb question why do you need 2 batteries as this engine is magneto and needs no power to run, just for the extra flight time between charges?

Setting up your fuel tank did you loop the fuel line around the tank to keep from siphoning?
 

Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
Mentor
^^^^ That worked out very nicely good job. Just a dumb question why do you need 2 batteries as this engine is magneto and needs no power to run, just for the extra flight time between charges?

Setting up your fuel tank did you loop the fuel line around the tank to keep from siphoning?

Technically, I don't need two batteries and one would work fine. I'm trying to do things more safely when I can, and the second battery gives me redundancy. Plus, the power block I'm using is the same one I used recently on my Rascal 110, which has a nice flag-pin that mounts to the side. I simply "pull the flag/pin" and the electronics go live. It also acts as a voltage regulator to give me a clean 6v signal, and if one battery dies it simply uses the good one instead. Where it makes sense to do so I'm planning to go back through my big planes to add redundancy like this as cheap insurance.

The fuel line is looped around the top of the tank a few times to avoid siphoning, as you stated. While I don't do much flying that looks like "3D", I do go inverted and do some other basic maneuvers that could otherwise cause fuel to run out the overflow.
 

Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
Mentor
It seems to me like that "power ram" should be pointing the other direction, no?

Maybe? Honestly I'm not 100% sure and haven't found any specific information one way or the other, and all the other stacks I've found on the market are simply long stacks without the angled cut. The nice thing about the design of the stack from B&B is that the center stack rotates freely 360* around the base until you tighten it down, so I can easily rotate it. I've emailed the owner of B&B to ask his opinion.

The 2 main reasons I got it: #1, it looks good :) . #2, it's supposed to help the airflow, specifically the vapor that can be pushed out by the engine while it's running. The stack keeps that vapor "contained" so it gets sucked back in, resulting in a cleaner engine and plane.

I can't verify if #2 is fact or fiction yet, but #1 is undeniable 100% fact. :)
 

Bricks

Master member
Redundancy on bigger planes is a good thing, As I have lost a couple of IC planes to bad on off switches I have ordered the parts to ,make a switch sounds like the one you have when the pin or plug in everything is off and once pull the pin it defaults to on. No real moving parts like a regular switch.
 

Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
Mentor
Redundancy on bigger planes is a good thing, As I have lost a couple of IC planes to bad on off switches I have ordered the parts to ,make a switch sounds like the one you have when the pin or plug in everything is off and once pull the pin it defaults to on. No real moving parts like a regular switch.

The pin/switch setup is pretty nice. This one is also designed so that if the switch itself fails it fails "ON" so you don't lose a bird in flight. I've been using the VR Pro by Dualsky on my last few planes and am happy with them so far. Set your voltage choice with a switch, plug in a pair of 2 cell LiPo batteries, and you're all set. It is designed to power the servos instead of getting power from the receiver, and although it only has 4 channels, that's enough to at least take some of the power needs away from the receiver.

Below is the rats nest of wiring so far, in need of some organization. The "Y" harnesses for the flaps and ailerons are way too long, so I'll either shorten them or run a bunch of short servo extensions from the receiver. The Y harness plan would be easier, and the harnesses have been working fine in the plane so far, but going with short extensions would probably be a "safer" way to set it up.


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Tench745

Master member
Maybe? Honestly I'm not 100% sure and haven't found any specific information one way or the other, and all the other stacks I've found on the market are simply long stacks without the angled cut. The nice thing about the design of the stack from B&B is that the center stack rotates freely 360* around the base until you tighten it down, so I can easily rotate it. I've emailed the owner of B&B to ask his opinion.

The 2 main reasons I got it: #1, it looks good :) . #2, it's supposed to help the airflow, specifically the vapor that can be pushed out by the engine while it's running. The stack keeps that vapor "contained" so it gets sucked back in, resulting in a cleaner engine and plane.

I can't verify if #2 is fact or fiction yet, but #1 is undeniable 100% fact. :)

I read the manufacturer's website too; they talk about it being able to rotate for tuning. I assumed that it would act as a scoop of sorts to ram air into the carb, pushing more air into the engine etc and that you could turn it partly away from the airstream to lessen that ram-air effect. I'm interested to hear what B&B's response is.
 

Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
Mentor
The new (to me) engine is now ready to fire up. Electronics are all done, except for the kill switch. I ordered some reed-style switches to make that happen, but it could still be run as-is if the weather would cooperate.

There was one other repair I needed to do to make the engine ready, and that was to repair the threads on one of the carb mounting holes. A previous owner got a little over zealous with the torque and one of the two bolts that hold the spacer to the cylinder was stripping out. Trying to run it like this would certainly lead to an air leak and poor running characteristics, so I picked up a Helicoil thread repair kit. Step 1 was removing the carb & spacer and covering the intake to keep metal shavings out.

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An appropriate size drill bit is then used to over-size the hole a bit, followed by the thread cutting tap included in the Helicoil kit. There's a certain "pucker factor" doing this kind of work on your engine....! :eek:

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Here's the meat and potatoes of the Helicoil kit - a stainless thread insert, the install tools, and the die. I had to grind the tip off on the die so it could go a little deeper into the blind hole I drilled.

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Using the guide, the new threads are simply threaded onto the newly cut threads in the cylinder. The new stainless threads are far stronger than the metal of the cylinder. Note in the picture below the final thread is still about 1/32" above the surface. Normally you want just the opposite, with the end of the last thread just below the surface, but this is as far as I could tap and I didn't want to risk boogering up the threads by trying to remove the insert. To fix the situation I simply clipped about 1/8" off of the last thread, which resulted in all new threads being below the surface as required.

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I used to do a lot of metal fabrication and auto repair, so I picked up this tap & die set from Harbor Freight about 15 years ago. While it's not the highest quality (shocker) it has been very useful. Today I used the tap handle to cut new threads, and its far easier to keep this type of tool steady than it is to use a ratchet wrench. While I had it out, I also chased the threads on all the original hardware with the M5x.8 die. The original bolts had a little gunk built up on them, but this cleaned the threads up very nicely.

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Here's the new Helicoil installed on the Zenoah G38. Note that the other carb mounting bolt hole is also looking very clean, as I ran an M5x.8 tap through those holes as well. Once done, everything was reassembled and is ready to go. The Helicoil kits are fairly cheap - mine was around $20 for the brand-name Helicoil kit in M5x.8 size, including the tools shown and a dozen threaded inserts. For about $30 you can get a Chinese-made kit with a few sizes.

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Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
Mentor
I bought all new gaskets from B&B. If they wouldn’t have had them I could make my own, just nowhere near as nice as theirs. I’ll have to invest in a punch kit for gaskets some day.
 

Bricks

Master member
It is amazing what can be done with a ballpeen hammer and gasket material. I have always told my self to aquire a punch set but haven`t yet. Around the farm I find myself making more gaskets then I want to.
 

Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
Mentor
It is amazing what can be done with a ballpeen hammer and gasket material. I have always told my self to aquire a punch set but haven`t yet. Around the farm I find myself making more gaskets then I want to.

Well, I found a set on Amazon for $15 and pulled the trigger. Sizes from 1mm to 10mm so that should work for this hobby pretty well.
 

Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
Mentor
To stop a magneto engine is fairly easy, you simply need to ground the coil to the engine. You could also stop fuel flow, choke the carb, etc., but the fastest and easiest way to stop the engine is grounding the coil. I've seen setups with an actual toggle switch mounted to the plane - flip the switch and the engine stops, but that isn't easy to do unless you're next to the plane. Here's an easy solution - a reed switch and small servo. The ground for the magneto kill is run through the switch and I'll program a channel on the receiver to hit the arm on the switch and ground the mag. I can also set this up on my fail-safe programming to kill the ignition if I lose signal. I've had this setup on a 1/4 scale Cub with a 23cc Zenoah for a couple years and it's worked flawlessly.

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Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
Mentor
Until now I've hand-flipped the prop to verify the magneto, spark plug, etc was working. Flipping by hand works, but you get ONE spark, and the power of the spark is related to how hard & fast you can flip the prop. I've been putting it off, but finally cut and installed the big-ass aluminum spinner today and was able to give it a shot with the electric starter. WOW, what a difference! It's got a very strong and consistent spark, obviously a good sign. Wiring for the kill switch is also going in and I was able to confirm that the switch does indeed kill the spark. Weather for the weekend has the potential to be decent, so fingers are crossed I can get it out for a maiden.

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Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
Mentor
Well, she runs! It still needs quite a bit of tuning as the low end is horrible and it doesn't want to idle properly. The needles are way off from what I'm used to so I need to do a bit of research on this model carb to see if I'm missing something. But it runs...! :) Unless I get it figured out tomorrow the re-maiden will be postponed.

 

Bricks

Master member
You are runnng way fat on your low end, easy check is when throttle is applied quickly the engine stumbles then catches and powers up, if throttle is given and engine dies too lean. You want just a little fat on the low end for good transition Low end on gassers should start about 1.5 turns out then adjust from there..
 

Joker 53150

Mmmmmmm, balsa.
Mentor
You are runnng way fat on your low end, easy check is when throttle is applied quickly the engine stumbles then catches and powers up, if throttle is given and engine dies too lean. You want just a little fat on the low end for good transition Low end on gassers should start about 1.5 turns out then adjust from there..

I'm not sure that's the issue right now. From what I've been able to find online, the G-38's carb requires very different settings to work properly. The high-speed, as an example, is often turned all the way in to maybe 1 turn out. The low end I'm finding settings from 1/2 turn out to 2 turns out. I tried starting at all the way in, and adjusting out in 1/4 turn increments, and stopped when I was around 4 turns + out! The low end ran better and longer each time the low was adjusted out, and also ran a little longer each time. After it dies each time, I prime for 1-2 flips and it immediately fires right up, runs, and dies. I verified the pulse ports are all open and lined up, which makes me think there is still some junk in the carb.
 

Bricks

Master member
Always try to adjust high speed first before the low speed.

Could be the gaskets in the carb have hardened as that is a pumped carb and not feeding gas consistently. Try opening and closing the choke slightly to see if it will keep running may have a vacuum leak somewhere. Some of engines need to keep the choke on slightly until the engines warms up a bit.

What did you use for a clunk in your tank not saying it is your problem right now but you need a felt or cinder clunk as the gassers cause enough vibration to cause the gas to foam.