A bigger question, are they going to enforce a ban on FPV?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2192231
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2192231
Amateur radio license and FPV
- Thread starter Gremlo
- Start date
While I can't speak for Flite Test (I assume that's the "they" you're talking about), probably not. I don't believe the FAA document in question is an actual rule... yet.
designgeek
KD8YYX
As of today, you can find me on the FCC database. KD8YYX.
Glad I got legal with the FCC, just in time to get "reclassified" by the FAA. Lol.
Glad I got legal with the FCC, just in time to get "reclassified" by the FAA. Lol.
Mytchak
KG5CZA
Congrats! I'm taking my test this Saturday.
Just read about the FCC news. Also received an email from the AMA with their response (http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/FAAInterpretiveRule.pdf). Looks like we'll have some writing to do in the near future.
Congrats on the License!!! Great Job!!!
designgeek
KD8YYX
Guys the test is easy. For me it was worth the time invested to learn a little more about radio.
For those who are interested, Here's a link to the exam sessions between now and FF2014 within 100miles of Malvern Ohio:
http://www.arrl.org/exam_sessions/s...ation.zip:44644/Location.area:100/model:Event
All the best,
DG
For those who are interested, Here's a link to the exam sessions between now and FF2014 within 100miles of Malvern Ohio:
http://www.arrl.org/exam_sessions/s...ation.zip:44644/Location.area:100/model:Event
All the best,
DG
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designgeek
KD8YYX
Thanks!
Mytchak
KG5CZA
Took the exam this morning and ACED it! Yeppie - just in time for FliteFest 2014!!!
Not that it's mandatory, but glad I did it. There's still time guys (if you want to take it). It took me a a couple of nights of studying to pass. Call sign should be in the database in about 10 days according to VEC.
WOOHOO!
-David
Not that it's mandatory, but glad I did it. There's still time guys (if you want to take it). It took me a a couple of nights of studying to pass. Call sign should be in the database in about 10 days according to VEC.
WOOHOO!
-David
designgeek
KD8YYX
Congrats Mytchak! See you a FF14!
Everyone here should read the FAA reinterpretation of model aircraft rules. The public comment period period ends on July 25th. Get in there and respectfully post a comment!
This really needs to be on the front page of the FT site and Facebook page.
If you are already aware, sorry to repeat!
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FAA-2014-0396-0001
All the best, and happy flying.
DG
Everyone here should read the FAA reinterpretation of model aircraft rules. The public comment period period ends on July 25th. Get in there and respectfully post a comment!
This really needs to be on the front page of the FT site and Facebook page.
If you are already aware, sorry to repeat!
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FAA-2014-0396-0001
All the best, and happy flying.
DG
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Mytchak
KG5CZA
Thanks DG!
Also - AMA sent an email with what to do and tips on submitting your comments ([url]http://www.regulations.gov/docs/Tips_For_Submitting_Effective_Comments.pdf)[/URL]
Perhaps we should make it mandatory that everyone brings a copy of their FAA response in order to attend FF2014
<kidding of course> But this is VERY important.
designgeek
KD8YYX
It's a pity that the comment period ends on FF opening day. It would gave been a great opportunity to get a few hundred more people exposed to the issue and get some more comments in place. I see there are more than 1000 comments registered thus far, good going everybody who commented already. We have a ton of work to do getting the word out to people who are not forum regulars...
First order of business when he FT crew recovers from the France trip: FT / YouTube call to action video!
First order of business when he FT crew recovers from the France trip: FT / YouTube call to action video!
Navydiver71
Junior Member
I was so looking forward to attending, meeting the Josh's and the rest of the Flite Test persons, but after reading this, I am more discouraged to go on with my new hobby than anything else.
As a career (25 year) Military man, and now a career Police Officer, I know a little about rules and regulations and how and why they apply and impact laws and their applications. I do not know however, why I would need a HAM lic to use a mobile camera, nor do I want to take a test to do so. One of my formers jobs (military) was Air Traffic Control, and I certainly didn't need a Ham Lic to talk to REAL aircraft, why would I need one to see from a MODEL aircraft? Why do I have to be a "technician" or take a technicians test to be licensed to use a device that when not mounted I would need NO such license for?
I'm sorry, but I will no longer be attending Flite Fest, and I believe now that since I have read this forum, AND the FAA's new proposed rules, I will likely just sell my new (less than a year old) hobby equipment and find something else. Hoewever, I still intend on sending a much better written reply to the NAS/FAA.
My country is fling apart, and all we can do is squabble over rules to use a camera on a model airplane… My "Government" at work.
Sorry for the rant, Thank you Flite Test for inspiring me again even if it were for such a short time. Goodbye
As a career (25 year) Military man, and now a career Police Officer, I know a little about rules and regulations and how and why they apply and impact laws and their applications. I do not know however, why I would need a HAM lic to use a mobile camera, nor do I want to take a test to do so. One of my formers jobs (military) was Air Traffic Control, and I certainly didn't need a Ham Lic to talk to REAL aircraft, why would I need one to see from a MODEL aircraft? Why do I have to be a "technician" or take a technicians test to be licensed to use a device that when not mounted I would need NO such license for?
I'm sorry, but I will no longer be attending Flite Fest, and I believe now that since I have read this forum, AND the FAA's new proposed rules, I will likely just sell my new (less than a year old) hobby equipment and find something else. Hoewever, I still intend on sending a much better written reply to the NAS/FAA.
My country is fling apart, and all we can do is squabble over rules to use a camera on a model airplane… My "Government" at work.
Sorry for the rant, Thank you Flite Test for inspiring me again even if it were for such a short time. Goodbye
Navydiver71
Junior Member
I'm so sorry that my first and likely last post was not something much happier… Just really have the wind taken out of my sails now.
Mytchak
KG5CZA
Navydiver71,
I think you maybe overreacting a bit. You can attend flitefest - and fly FPV. The issue at that is currently under discussion is what should we, as a community, be doing to fly safely and according to the law. That said, the secrete service isn't going to come out of their bunkers and carding people for their HAM tickets. If you want to fly FPV without a HAM, you can - it's just a little harder to do it well within the non-ham regulations (for example < 100mw on certain freqs). In regards to the FFA, that's in discussion. Laws have not been passed. So it's too early to just throw your hands up and say F@%* it.
Just my two cents.
-David
Navydiver71
Junior Member
David,
Thank you, and you may be correct, but I see more and more of the rights that I and MANY others fought to defend, AND that I now as a police officer fight to preserve and uphold on the streets being taken at an alarming rate. I'm just so tired of every hobby I have being taken/regulated to the point of silliness. I am all for the protection of the citizenship, and for the enacting of rules for the betterment of society, BUT… When one person does a bad thing, why now does everyone else have to suffer/give up something that is perfectly legal, and harmless? We do not take everyones cars away when someone drives drunk? When someone is stabbed (Which happens FAR more often than shootings BTW) We NEVER hear of taking all the knives from your kitchen or regulating them? And the best part of this is that to my knowledge not one of us in our community (RC) has done anything to spark this regulation/infringement of our rights as modelers and hobbyist.
So yes I know I can still attend Flite Fest, Yes I can still fly 3rd person line o sight, but I don't want to. I got into this hobby so I could see what it felt like to look out the window of a P-51, or an ME-109, or a Mig15 IN FLIGHT…. something I will NEVER get to do any other way. So Im sorry if it seems a little "hasty" but I WANT to fly FPV, not line of sight only.
With my experience with both Federal and State law/lawmakers I can say that if they propose something for the safety of "x,y, or z" It WILL pass. So, despite my frustrated and completely knee jerk reaction yesterday, I'm not throwing my hands up and saying "F@%* It", I am throwing my hands up and saying "I'm tired of this, and I'm prepared to fight this bill using all legal means within my power as a citizen." I advocate ALL of us do the same, and I DO NOT mean start staging sit ins or anything illegal etc… I mean contact your local law makers, contact state reps, respond to this via legal and correct means. If you don't make your voices heard, if you/we don't stand up and fight (legally) for your/our rights… We stand to lose so much more than our rights to fly a model airplane.
In the mean time, I will comply with whatever rules are set until I am able to assist lawmakers in bringing about a change to both this community, and the one in DC via my votes and my voice.
May you all enjoy the hobby and please have many many hours of great enjoyment and wonderful memories… Ignore my frustration, I have just spent a LOT of money on FPV gear/goggles and 2 FPV warbird builds with many hours and $ involved in each etc… Only to find this information.
Thank you, and you may be correct, but I see more and more of the rights that I and MANY others fought to defend, AND that I now as a police officer fight to preserve and uphold on the streets being taken at an alarming rate. I'm just so tired of every hobby I have being taken/regulated to the point of silliness. I am all for the protection of the citizenship, and for the enacting of rules for the betterment of society, BUT… When one person does a bad thing, why now does everyone else have to suffer/give up something that is perfectly legal, and harmless? We do not take everyones cars away when someone drives drunk? When someone is stabbed (Which happens FAR more often than shootings BTW) We NEVER hear of taking all the knives from your kitchen or regulating them? And the best part of this is that to my knowledge not one of us in our community (RC) has done anything to spark this regulation/infringement of our rights as modelers and hobbyist.
So yes I know I can still attend Flite Fest, Yes I can still fly 3rd person line o sight, but I don't want to. I got into this hobby so I could see what it felt like to look out the window of a P-51, or an ME-109, or a Mig15 IN FLIGHT…. something I will NEVER get to do any other way. So Im sorry if it seems a little "hasty" but I WANT to fly FPV, not line of sight only.
With my experience with both Federal and State law/lawmakers I can say that if they propose something for the safety of "x,y, or z" It WILL pass. So, despite my frustrated and completely knee jerk reaction yesterday, I'm not throwing my hands up and saying "F@%* It", I am throwing my hands up and saying "I'm tired of this, and I'm prepared to fight this bill using all legal means within my power as a citizen." I advocate ALL of us do the same, and I DO NOT mean start staging sit ins or anything illegal etc… I mean contact your local law makers, contact state reps, respond to this via legal and correct means. If you don't make your voices heard, if you/we don't stand up and fight (legally) for your/our rights… We stand to lose so much more than our rights to fly a model airplane.
In the mean time, I will comply with whatever rules are set until I am able to assist lawmakers in bringing about a change to both this community, and the one in DC via my votes and my voice.
May you all enjoy the hobby and please have many many hours of great enjoyment and wonderful memories… Ignore my frustration, I have just spent a LOT of money on FPV gear/goggles and 2 FPV warbird builds with many hours and $ involved in each etc… Only to find this information.
In this case, this isn't being done for any safety concerns at all. This is a reaction to the court case they lost, which had nothing to do with safety, but rather revenue. Trappy got compensated for the flight video over the college...
Amazon also has some blame coming with their April fool's publicity stunt regarding delivery by "drone". This was never going to happen anytime soon, if ever. Logistics alone prohibit such a thing given the current tech and lack of infrastructure that would be needed to make delivery by drone a reality. The FAA even thinking that could be a possibility shows they really have no clue what we really do and including delivery option in the release shows that.
As far as any safety concerns they might have, they seem to be basing their decisions on the grossly exaggerated news stories, rather than the overwhelming majority of safe flights, that pilots who follow AMA guidelines complete regularly on a daily basis. The handful of incidents the media has hyped for sensationalism don't tell the real story, not even close. Since the FAA seems to be reacting to this inaccurate information, I certainly don't think they are qualified to pass judgement in this area and will absolutely fight this tooth and nail!
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Mytchak
KG5CZA
NavyDiver71,
I *think* I understand where you are coming from (aka perspective). I don't think it's about rights being taken away. Let me elaborate. It's like getting pulled over for an expired inspection sticker on your car. You know you should have taken care of it but you get mad anyway thinking "Geeze - why does the government have to do this? It should be my right to drive whatever the hell I want." Well, if we didn't have inspections on cars, people would have steal plates for mud guards (one which killed a lady here several years ago), duct taped engine blocks, etc... So if we look at it from that perspective, it's to protect the public. I believe it's the same with the HAM license for the higher power transmitter. It's not a new rule - it's been there for a long time. It's there so that the general populous doesn't transmit on, lets say an ILS approach frequency, emergency dispatch, etc. One could argue it's for safety in general. It's not that the government is taking away privileges, in fact just the opposite. They're trying to protect and segment the bands so that the general populous can utilize these privileges. To do so, you need the HAM.
I feel for you. I too am frustrated with the what is happening in the world we live in (in General) and also the liberties and rights we have as US citizens being... how can say this... changing??? mutating??? I think you get the point. I applaud you for your service for our country. That makes you a hero in my book. I wish you would reconsider your stance and also mull over the reasons for the licensing of frequencies. If you make it to FliteFest - Let's meet up. I'll have a Scotch waiting for you.
-David
I *think* I understand where you are coming from (aka perspective). I don't think it's about rights being taken away. Let me elaborate. It's like getting pulled over for an expired inspection sticker on your car. You know you should have taken care of it but you get mad anyway thinking "Geeze - why does the government have to do this? It should be my right to drive whatever the hell I want." Well, if we didn't have inspections on cars, people would have steal plates for mud guards (one which killed a lady here several years ago), duct taped engine blocks, etc... So if we look at it from that perspective, it's to protect the public. I believe it's the same with the HAM license for the higher power transmitter. It's not a new rule - it's been there for a long time. It's there so that the general populous doesn't transmit on, lets say an ILS approach frequency, emergency dispatch, etc. One could argue it's for safety in general. It's not that the government is taking away privileges, in fact just the opposite. They're trying to protect and segment the bands so that the general populous can utilize these privileges. To do so, you need the HAM.
I feel for you. I too am frustrated with the what is happening in the world we live in (in General) and also the liberties and rights we have as US citizens being... how can say this... changing??? mutating??? I think you get the point. I applaud you for your service for our country. That makes you a hero in my book. I wish you would reconsider your stance and also mull over the reasons for the licensing of frequencies. If you make it to FliteFest - Let's meet up. I'll have a Scotch waiting for you.
-David
bitogre
Member
I think you make some great points. However, I think part of the problem is that the government has not left enough frequencies available for products like FPV and many other consumer products. Yes, ISM bands can be used for WiFi and other devices that can use spread spectrum technologies that are tolerant of interference. And CB and other voice frequencies are also allowed. But I am not aware of any frequencies that can be used by unlicensed individuals and companies in high bandwidth devices that for various reasons cannot use spread spectrum technologies. I personally think there should be some.
If you are aware of such frequencies, please let us know. I'd be curious why no manufacturer sells FPV gear for those frequencies.
Also, I wonder what FCC rule allowed for the older RC transmitters to use the 72 MHz and 75 MHz frequencies. I wonder if the FCC rules that allowed for these transmitters might also be used to get/find frequencies we can use for FPV.
There are very good reasons why transmitters are required to use spread spectrum technologies. Spread spectrum makes much more efficient use of the limited resource. The answer, IMO, should be for video TX/RX mamufacturers to start implementing digital transmission with spread spectrum. This will increase the cost and complexity of the devices, but it will significantly improve the capacity of the spectrum to handle multiple devices.
Mytchak
KG5CZA
I can't argue your points. There are no frequency allocations or bands that I am aware of for unlicensed transmissions. This topic would make a great 'round table' discussion at FliteFest. I believe 72 and 75 Mhz freq's were allocated for radio controlled models (one for air, one for ground) in the 1970's. So the FCC did allocate non-ham/non-license freq's for modelers. As far as FPV, this has not occurred. Perhaps in the future it will change.
Lets face it, it's not like the NSA or FCC agents will jump out of a black van and nab you for flying FPV. However, if you're plane causes damages or bodily injury, you need to ensure you can say that you did everything by the book to ensure the aircraft complies with current laws (Not saying FAA!!! - urg - different thread ). If not, they may see it as an unlicensed piece of equipment that caused bodily harm/damages.
Okay - Now i'm depressed. Sorry for the rant.
-David
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