Amateur radio license and FPV

[bitogre]

There are very good reasons why transmitters are required to use spread spectrum technologies. Spread spectrum makes much more efficient use of the limited resource. The answer, IMO, should be for video TX/RX manufacturers to start implementing digital transmission with spread spectrum. This will increase the cost and complexity of the devices, but it will significantly improve the capacity of the spectrum to handle multiple devices.

I think costs are the least of the concerns. Complexity will definitely be increased. But chance are that so will latency, size, and weight. Range will also like decrease compared to a similar powered transmitter. Latency may be the bigger problem as the more latency, the more difficult it would be to safely fly an aircraft via FPV.

However, if people with the appropriate skills to try to develop a spread spectrum FPV gear are interested, we should start a separate thread to discuss organizing an R&D effort. The end product may even be patent-able and profitable to sell (using something like KickStarter to fund initial production run) as it probably has uses beside just FPV.

 

[Navydiver71]

NavyDiver71,
I think you get the point. I applaud you for your service for our country. That makes you a hero in my book. I wish you would reconsider your stance and also mull over the reasons for the licensing of frequencies. If you make it to FliteFest - Let's meet up. I'll have a Scotch waiting for you.

-David

1st... David my new friend, I am NO hero… I have MANY deployments, and seen a great many things, but Never will I accept that title. The real hero's are my friends and brothers who will never again come home, or walk, or see, or hold their children and families, or feel the love of a Nation they paid the highest, most costly a price for. Those are the ones that deserve the title of Hero. (Sorry, touchy subject)
However, I thank YOU for honoring me, and all other vets with your highest of regards.

2nd… I do get the point, and if licensing keeps FPV going, then I can and will comply, but they are talking about the total removal of FPV, and that is what I will not stand for without a fight (legal not physical).

3rd… I don't drink, but I will join you in that shot (just fill mine with water, or hot tea, or maybe a RedBull? lol).
To new friends, old friends, and the pure joy of flying!

 

[bacpck]

Navydiver71 welcome from a fellow sailor....

Yes we will fight, sigh it is very sad and exhausting yet we need to do whatever we can legally to fight. The more I find out about the group of people that make up this great hobby the more I find that have and are currently involved in fights with bureaucrats for other hobbies, including me. These people are used to and will write letters, sign petitions and help take up the fight once again to keep or gain back that little bit of freedom for this fantastic hobby. I understand how tiring it all can be, take heart and remember you are not alone.

"The real hero's are my friends and brothers who will never again come home, or walk, or see, or hold their children and families, or feel the love of a Nation they paid the highest, most costly a price for. Those are the ones that deserve the title of Hero." Very well said and echo my thoughts exactly.

 

[bandit]

Lets face it, it's not like the NSA or FCC agents will jump out of a black van and nab you for flying FPV.

I hate to say it but 99% of the time, if you get in trouble in these bands (assuming you are cooperating with other FPVers) it is from a licensed HAM turning you in. A lot of them really don't like people using the band without a license
, just on general principles.

 

[captian kazuma]

i don't have fpv at all. i plan on a ham and gear after flite fest but would it be worth it to have it on the event i don't think ill magicly learn or come up with the gear but maybe they'll be really nice people at flite fest?lol its cheap and easy but would it be worth it to have it at flite fest?

 

[SteevyT]

i don't have fpv at all. i plan on a ham and gear after flite fest but would it be worth it to have it on the event i don't think ill magicly learn or come up with the gear but maybe they'll be really nice people at flite fest?lol its cheap and easy but would it be worth it to have it at flite fest?

$15 and it's good for 10 years. I'd say it's worth it even if you don't use it right away. Also, if you want to go above just the technician level, at least at the site I was at you could take all three exams in one sitting if you wanted.

 

[Tritium]

I hate to say it but 99% of the time, if you get in trouble in these bands (assuming you are cooperating with other FPVers) it is from a licensed HAM turning you in. A lot of them really don't like people using the band without a license
, just on general principles.

If a non-ham interferes with a legally licensed ham then the FCC will take the Hams side every time. The best way to avoid this without a license is stay in the ISM bands at fairly low power even though your FPV transmitter is not "Approved by the FCC" as required there is much less chance of interfering with a Ham around 5.8GHz. YES a Ham will definitely turn in a non-ham who "walks" on their legally licensed privileges.:black_eyed:

But really there is no reason not to get a tech license except belligerence!

Thurmond

 

[Grenadapult]

KCØYOL. Getting a Tech license is pretty easy. If you can scratch build an RC foamie, you are probably over halfway there anyway. Mose code is gone. You need to know some basic electronic stuff (ohm's law) and some basic radio wave propagation stuff (your plane turns the antenna sideways when you bank, and you lsoe signal). If you are posting here, you probably know most of that, then its just learning proper protocol (no swearing), and you're set. I paid 20 bucks. That was a 10-year license and a one year membership to the local club.
.
As for being legal at the event, I BELIEVE as a licensed HAM operator, that I can stand next to someone else and be the "control operator" while they use their equipment. It just means that a licensed HAM has the ability to turn it on or off as needed, and make sure rules are followed. Maybe some other HAM's can chime in to be sure?

 

[Craftydan]

Not sure . . . perhaps the HAM needs to plug the VTX into power themself to "Control" the transmitter (which will then quickly wander away), but Having a spotter is more than a good idea.

Wrangling a HAM to spot for you could kill two birds with one stone . . . scratch that -- we dont' want to kill any birds . . .

 

[Grenadapult]

I KNOW how audio works. The Control Operator just has to be within arms reach of the radio, and semi-aware of what's going on. This is how HAM's allow friends, family, schools, Boy Scouts, etc to use their radios and get the full experience. I knew a wom,an who was well known for chatting on HAM for years without a license. Her husband was the quiet type, so he'd sit beside her and watch TV, etc, while she "chew'd the rag" with HAM's. No laws broken.

As for birds.... "European starlings, English sparrows, and common pigeons, other than homing pigeons, may be killed at any time and their nests or eggs may be destroyed at any time."
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusoh1533_07.htm


Just sayin.

 

[Craftydan]

Now "can" and "want to" are two different things, but I imagine with the racket we'll be making they'll stay on the sidelines . . . or further . . .

Yeah, but these transmitters aren't going to be in arms length, so it gets a little fuzzy even if the HAM has the control TX in his hands. In theory, if you put the VTX on a reciever controled switch it would become all hunky-dory, becasue they become a "remote" control operator, but othrewise, the Ham's only recourse to stop transmission involves gettign the craft back or gettign to the craft -- can you imagine geting one of these stuck in the neighbor's trees? That channel is hosed until the battery runs dead . . . which fortunatly won't be long . . .

Dont think it'll be an issue, though, but having pilot or spotter as HAM is great, but which one it is doesn't make much difference, IMO.

 

[MentalWhiplash]

That is where it gets interesting. The majority of the responsibility for a HAM operator is to be in control of the transmission. In FPV, unlike most aspects of our hobby, the transmitter not immediately accessible to the operator (since it's flying around). IMHO, the operator has the responsibility to be able to remotely kill the signal. Whereas if you are using a 433 MHz UHF radio system for model control, the transmitter is in your hands so compliance is a cinch.

In a nutshell, having the license is great. Being able to comply with the responsibilities of having it takes a little more effort. My dad would say, "If there's a question, and it isn't a ridiculous burden, why wouldn't you do it the right way?"

 

[Irush]

Hi all,
Figured I would let everyone in on my experience. After I read this forum here I decided I would try for my technician license. I borrowed an outdated study book and cracked it open on the the 11th. I studied over the weekend and took my test on the 14th with a club down the road from me. I passed 32 out of 35. I paid 15$ and was offered to take the next test for free just to see if I could pass it. Didn't quite make that one. However, I should be legal well before flite fest. I just have to show up on the FCC database. In addition to this I learned quite a bit about what FPV is considered to be in the HAM radio world. UHF used for control is considered telecommand and a signal from a transmitter on the aircraft is considered telemetry. Also, there is section that discusses model aircraft. The FCC does not care if there are model aircraft operating with radio equipment such as what is found in an FPV setup, provided the frequencies are with the operators limitations and the transmitter on the aircraft is less than 1 watt. Don't take my word for it, go buy the study book and read. I am very happy that I did. Doing so will make you a more educated FPV pilot and might make you some friends at your local Ham radio club that want to see some FPV.

 

[Mytchak]

Congrats Irush! It took me two business days to get into the FCC database. If your VE files it quickly, you should be good by the time flight test comes around.

However - the FCC does care what and how you are transmitting. The maximum wattage for transmitters for control of aircraft is 1 Watt. With that said, that doesn't mean you can transmit on UHF up to 1 watt without a license. So far non hams, you will be/should be limited to the 2.4 Ghz radios. If you're on UHF, you will should have a license to do so (also, your callsign should be on your transmitter). As far as FPV, you're on the immature bands. You should have the license if you're over 50 or 100 mW (sorry - I can't recall the wattage at the moment). You also should to transmit your call sign every 10 minutes and at the end of transmission.

That said - I don't want to alarm people again the week of FlightFest. This thread has alarmed many folks and frankly, I don't want to beat a dead horse. We'll all have fun and perhaps learn a thing or two.

-David

 

[LordGarak]

Its not about power, its about FCC approval for unlicensed use. If the transmitter doesn't have a part 15 sticker on it you need an amateur radio licence to operate it. Now for a device to get that approval it needs to be under 25mW or something, that is where the power comes in.