Guillows SE5a Kit 202 Rubber Power to RC Conversion

[TooJung2Die]

Build and Flight Video
It's Spring! It's a miracle this airplane isn't a pile of splinters. I never had this much trouble with defective electronics. It was built using all new equipment. On the first day out a bearing in the new motor went bad. Then lots of waiting for good flying weather. Then the 10A ESC started quitting and resetting after a couple of minutes. I tested the ESC and it was definitely bad. Next time out the receiver kept losing signal. The motor would die and I'd lose all control. There were several nail biting hard landings and a couple of cracked wing struts. After all new electronics (except for the servos) we finally got some good flying in and a video. It does land on it's wheels most of the time. Honest.

Build slideshow and flight video. Jump to 5:40 to see the flight:

jon

 

[Mr. Gandalf]

That's a great looking build !!

 

[OliverW]

Looks 10/10!! Hope my stearman will fly as well!

 

[TooJung2Die]

How is your Stearman project? I'd love to see another Guillow's kit flying. I searched this forum and found several Guillow's threads. As far as I can tell the SE5A is the only Guillow's RC conversion completed and flown.

 

[OliverW]

How is your Stearman project? I'd love to see another Guillow's kit flying. I searched this forum and found several Guillow's threads. As far as I can tell the SE5A is the only Guillow's RC conversion completed and flown.

The stearman is going SLOW. Haven't gotten much work done lately because we are able to fly now! The deadline for my build is May 21.

 

[Paracodespoder]

How is your Stearman project? I'd love to see another Guillow's kit flying. I searched this forum and found several Guillow's threads. As far as I can tell the SE5A is the only Guillow's RC conversion completed and flown.

I would love to join you and build one, only I don’t have a kit ( the nearest hobby town carries some though ). I have been getting into balsa building more lately, started a mini funtana scratch-build on Friday ( plans here ), @nhk750 ’s Extra build pushed me over and made me want to build it . Got a few ribs cut out and now I’m waiting on a trip to hobbytown for balsa and some ply (or hobby-lobby for the balsa), might pick up a guillows kit while I’m there, maybe.

 

[SlingShot]

Very nice. I always like to think about what a devistating weapon a piston engined fighter would be if it had model airplane "unlimited" vertical power. It's a little funny to see the example extended to a WWI fighter.

I've wanted a WWI fighter for a while now and it's time to make it a reality. 😎

 

[P.A.McLaughlin]

Jon; Thanks so much for your incredible diligence in documenting your build and flying the SE5a. When I was an adolescent in the early 60's I built a Spad, (not sure of the make), and a Guillows Nieuport 17. Neither flew well with the rubber band power, but then again, it could have been my building skills weren't well tuned. My Dad was a control-line and free-flight person during the 40's. In the early 70's he bought 2 Guillows Piper Cubs and the SE5a, as well as another brand of die-cut model, a 34" wingspan Jenny. He never got around to starting them, so I'm happily taking up the cause. I may follow your lead and purchase a ready-built or semi-redi built foam electric flyer to hone my non-existent R/C skills.

I've been plowing through your videos and this forum, and I have two questions off the top of my head:

* Why did you choose 3 channel and not 4, with ailerons? I did see one other SE5a conversion where they were used. Hmmmm.

* When you replaced the bad electronics, did you use the same make, etc.? For that matter, do you call out the make and model of the receiver, servo's, and ESC?

Again, many thanks for the great videos and this build documentation.
Peter
Chicago

 

[Bricks]

Very nice job I would of expected being a biplane it would of slowed down more for landings.

 

[TooJung2Die]

* Why did you choose 3 channel and not 4, with ailerons? I did see one other SE5a conversion where they were used. Hmmmm.

There are several reasons I used 3 channel instead of four.

• I'm not a very good pilot. My 4 channel airplanes are often short-lived.
• This is a stable free flight airplane that can fly itself. I wanted to keep it that way.
• 3 channel is easier to build.
• 3 channel weighs less.

* When you replaced the bad electronics, did you use the same make, etc.? For that matter, do you call out the make and model of the receiver, servo's, and ESC?

I replaced the Hobby King 1806-2100KV motor with another one of the same type. I built a few airplanes with this same motor and I only had one fail, the first one I put in the SE5A. I diagnosed all the other issues to a defective BEC on the first ESC. I don't remember the brand of the bad ESC or the one I'm using now. I buy all kinds (I should probably buy better). I put the Flysky FS-A3 receiver I thought was defective in another airplane and it works fine. The 3.7 gram servos are ones you can get for a couple of bucks on eBay.

Again, many thanks for the great videos and this build documentation.

You're welcome. Thank you for the kind words. They are appreciated.
Jon

 

[TooJung2Die]

Very nice job I would of expected being a biplane it would of slowed down more for landings.

If I had to do it again I would build it lighter. The Guillow's balsa in the kit was very dense. The slower this airplane flies the slower it responds to the control surfaces. I can land it better when I keep the power slightly on instead of trying to glide it in.

It may look fast in the video because it is so small. It doesn't seem like a fast airplane when I'm flying it.

 

[P.A.McLaughlin]

It's GREEN!

I had to clean off the paint and start over twice with this new paint. It kept beading up even after cleaning the film with alcohol and acetone. By the way, it seems you can clean this film with anything and it won't hurt it. I finally got the paint thinned to the consistency needed to go down evenly using glass cleaner and rubbing alcohol.

Second coat, still wet.

View attachment 117664

After four very light coats of very thin paint.

View attachment 117665

The plan was to paint the bottom a light blueish gray. The wife says leave it clear so the skeleton shows. Decisions...

View attachment 117666

You can speed up the time between coats to nothing with a hair dryer or heat gun set to low. Still have lots more to do. I'm really enjoying this. Glad I got back to balsa.
jon

It's GREEN!

I had to clean off the paint and start over twice with this new paint. It kept beading up even after cleaning the film with alcohol and acetone. By the way, it seems you can clean this film with anything and it won't hurt it. I finally got the paint thinned to the consistency needed to go down evenly using glass cleaner and rubbing alcohol.

Second coat, still wet.

View attachment 117664

After four very light coats of very thin paint.

View attachment 117665

The plan was to paint the bottom a light blueish gray. The wife says leave it clear so the skeleton shows. Decisions...

View attachment 117666

You can speed up the time between coats to nothing with a hair dryer or heat gun set to low. Still have lots more to do. I'm really enjoying this. Glad I got back to balsa.
jon

Any notion of the proportions of glass cleaner (with ammonia or not?) and rubbing alky to paint? And which type of rubbing alky was it: There are generally 2 types sold at the drug store, one is 91% and the other is a much lower percentage. Lastly, do you remember the brand of paint from Michael's?

 

[TooJung2Die]

The Awesome glass cleaner (with ammonia) and 50% isopropyl rubbing alcohol are both purchased at Dollar Tree stores. I thinned the paint 50/50 in a water bottle with glass cleaner. Because that wasn't thin enough I added rubbing alcohol to the airbrush paint jar. I'd estimate it ended up 60/40 thinner to paint. The acrylic paint at Michael's craft stores is Craft Smart. The multi-surface acrylic adheres best to document laminate but I've used the regular acrylic too with good results. Add a top coat of Krylon crystal clear or Eze Dope to seal and protect the paint.

Clean the document laminate thoroughly with alcohol before painting to remove the film of release lubricant or paint won't stick at all.

Jon

 

[P.A.McLaughlin]

Before I started the SE5a I was going to use a Rx/servo/ESC brick and a geared brushed motor. That idea flew out the window as soon as I saw the Cox .020 glow engine in the Guillows SE5a plan for an alternate power plant. The "So-Long" old timer is a Cox .020 engine free flight design. I used an 1806/2300KV motor in the "So-Long" RC conversion and it was a good choice. Barely crack the throttle open to maintain altitude. Wide open throttle and it climbs like crazy.

Before beginning a new build I put a fresh edge on the blade with an Arkansas oil stone. You only have to sharpen once. For a strop I glued a leather belt rough side out to a paint stirrer. First I rubbed in some Mother's Mag & Aluminum Polish. Now I have a brick of white metal polish and rub it on the strop once in a while. I can't believe it took me sixty years to learn this trick. Even if you don't want to resharpen blades you should use a strop on your new blades. When the blade seems to be losing the edge hit the strop again. If you hate sharpening a strop will make blades last longer between replacements. Ask any barber.

View attachment 114341

Here's another trick I learned from BobK, another Flite Test forum member. Ever hear the expression "like a hot knife through butter"? That's how this covering film gadget works. It's a 25W soldering iron with a #11 Xacto blade riveted to the tip. It won't scorch the balsa. Sometimes it does double-duty as an extra fine trim iron.

View attachment 114342

Jon

You may have heard me squeal like a 13 year old when I tried the strop out. I'd been using a hard Arkansa wet stone on the Xacto blade, but the strop, charged with a stainless steel polishing compound, launched the blade into a whole new level! The compound is similar to what I knew as polishing rouge, which is meant to be used with a buffing wheel. They make different grades, some for non-ferrous metal, ferrous metal, and in this case, stainless.

The other trick I figured out was inspired Jon by what I think you said somewhere about trying to keep the fuselage formers square. At least on the first layout on the plan, I used my tiny Engineer's Square. You can pick up a cheap 2" engineer's square on Amazon for less than 7 bucks. It may not be a Starrett, but I'm sure it's square enough for our purposes.

My square has a 2 3/4" blade. 2" would even be better, at least for a model this size. I kind of hold the former against the square for a minute while the glue dries.

 

[TooJung2Die]

You may have heard me squeal like a 13 year old when I tried the strop out. I'd been using a hard Arkansa wet stone on the Xacto blade, but the strop, charged with a stainless steel polishing compound, launched the blade into a whole new level!

Isn't it incredible? First time I tried a strop I couldn't believe how sharp the edge became. You can actually shave with the blade. I don't change blades anymore. New Xacto blades aren't as sharp as stropped blades.

I need to get a nice small square like that. I used squares made from foamboard but if you don't hold them exactly perpendicular to the work surface it isn't square (as I discovered). Thanks for the tip.

 

[P.A.McLaughlin]

A few other projects came along but it gave me some time to think about this step. The plans had the plywood firewall for the Cox .020 glued to a 1/16" balsa bulkhead. That doesn't seem strong enough.

There's no way to get a firewall in the fuselage where it belongs without cutting one of the keels. I tried. The motor is mounted in the same position and angle as the Cox .020 engine. Splints are glued on either side of where the bottom keel was cut out. This looked good so splints were added to the top keel.

The firewall shape.

View attachment 114910

Bottom keel cut and firewall positioned at the correct angle.

View attachment 114911

Balsa splints added to the top and bottom keels. Fuselage placed on top of the plan to check the position and angle of the motor.

View attachment 114912

Front view. There's good airflow through and around the firewall.

View attachment 114913

The close ups show how rough the die cut pieces come out. Sanding will clean that up.
Jon

Question: My SE5a kit came with a plywood firewall for the Cox motor too. But my plywood is almost exactly the same thickness as the fuselage formers, and it looks like yours is twice as thick. Also, it looks like you either totally reshaped the plywood or threw out the piece that came with the kit and made your own from scratch. What exactly did you do? Thanks in advance. Peter

 

[P.A.McLaughlin]

Isn't it incredible? First time I tried a strop I couldn't believe how sharp the edge became. You can actually shave with the blade. I don't change blades anymore. New Xacto blades aren't as sharp as stropped blades.

I need to get a nice small square like that. I used squares made from foamboard but if you don't hold them exactly perpendicular to the work surface it isn't square (as I discovered). Thanks for the tip.

Yeah, I was so excited I used it on my tiny Victorianox Swiss army blade and my large Leatherman blade. Can shave with both now!

 

[TooJung2Die]

Question: My SE5a kit came with a plywood firewall for the Cox motor too. But my plywood is almost exactly the same thickness as the fuselage formers, and it looks like yours is twice as thick. Also, it looks like you either totally reshaped the plywood or threw out the piece that came with the kit and made your own from scratch. What exactly did you do? Thanks in advance. Peter

You are correct. I used thicker 3/32" plywood and made a new firewall.

In hindsight the firewall doesn't have to be thicker. If I built it again I would do some serious lightening of the fuselage. The fuselage is built to handle the strong rubber motor tension and severe vibration of a Cox .020. The bulkheads and keels can loose a lot of wood and remain strong enough. I would also go with a lighter motor/ESC/battery combination too. The 1806 motor in there now has more thrust than this airplane needs.

It was my first Guillow's RC conversion so I didn't deviate from the plans very much. Now that I have more experience the next Guillow's RC will be even better.

Stay tuned. I have a Guillow's kit and micro RC parts on order.

Jon

 

[Berns]

You were the trail blazer with that one. My "Sunbird" build was a walk in the park by comparison because you already found and solved all the gotchas! She's a fantastic flier and thermal hunter. The hardest part about flying the "Sunbird" is landing her because she doesn't want to come down. You have to flip up the spoilers and fight her to the ground.

The top wing is assembled. I didn't think 1" of dihedral each side was going to be enough but it looks right so that's how it is. Gussets are getting added to the dihedral joints and ribs where the cabane struts and wing struts will mount. Gussets add strength and give the covering something to stick to around the holes.

View attachment 116078

View attachment 116079

The bottom wing assembly will be next. Then lots of sanding to shape the leading and trailing edges and tidy it up for covering.
Jon

I bought this kit to keep me busy during lockdown in Australia and I'm following your build closely! How do I get the dihedral right? Do I glue it all together then saw it, get the angle, and glue it back together? Or is there a way I don't know about yet? i will have lots more questions as I'm a total noob.

 

[TooJung2Die]

Great! I hope they are laser cutting these kits now. You got the sequence; build the wing flat, cut it apart, glue it back together with dihedral. You are referring to the Guillow's SE5A and not the Sunbird, correct?