Naze32 with Neo-6M weird issue.

[spcrxj]

Hi guys I'm new here so please move my thread if I posted a wrong topic here , many thanks!

I am trying to add a neo 6m gps module in my quad. The gps module comes with a antenna and when I was connected to the laptop via FTDI it locks quite fast.

Alright , here's my issue. I've get it setup right in U-Centre. When I was connect to the Naze32 FC. It takes like forever to get a 3d lock.

First I think the sensors on the board cause the gps interference. So I tried to mount it still on the frame but connect it to the FTDI. It works very nice. OK. The next I tried to connect the 3S battery to the quad and it works nice too.

OK next . Pull off the FTDI and connect to Naze32 and power it up. From a warm start something it's ok but not a cool start.

Some how I was trying to plug the FTDI power to neo6m but use rx/tx on the naze32 to do a test. But the cleanflight gui said : no GPS.

I'm still working on it , is there anybody have any experience about this ? Many thanks!!!

My setup :

Naze32 full with telemetry and bt. 3S 11.1V setup , Emax-250 kit full CF. No FPV gear on the quad atm.

 

[ZoomNBoom]

AFAIK, you need a 3.3V GPS for the naze. FTDI generally gives 5V on the vcc pin. Could that be it?

 

[spcrxj]

AFAIK, you need a 3.3V GPS for the naze. FTDI generally gives 5V on the vcc pin. Could that be it?

Hi ZoomNBoom. Thanks for replying me

My FTDI having a jumper on the board. I did select 5v and I think it output 5V VCC. But the logic level of TTL should be 3.3v.

And the Naze32 should be 3.3v logic level as well.
And I plug the VCC and GND to the servo connect 5 (Im running a quad so 5 and 6 is empty.) The servo outputs GND,5V,and Signal , so in my opinion it's fine.

 

[ZoomNBoom]

You may well be right.

Not much help I can offer otherwise, I once did manage to connect a GPS to the naze and have it transmit gps data to my taranis via telemetry, but frankly, I didnt see the point and removed it. Its not like the current firmwares have really usable RTH capability, let alone anything else thats worth carrying the weight of the GPS. That is, unless something changed recently.

 

[jhitesma]

Does your Neo have the battery on it? If not then it's probably not storing it's almanac/empheresis data about the sats between boots which can make for very slow startup. Even if it has the battery it could be it's not fully charged. You may want to try leaving the GPS powered up for a few hours with good signal so the battery can charge up and then give it a try.

I've also found that changing location can cause fairly slow startups - I can test it at home and it will be up and locked in a minute or so...but get to the flying field and I have to leave it powered up for 5-15 minutes before it will lock from the new location sometimes.

 

[spcrxj]

You may well be right.

Not much help I can offer otherwise, I once did manage to connect a GPS to the naze and have it transmit gps data to my taranis via telemetry, but frankly, I didnt see the point and removed it. Its not like the current firmwares have really usable RTH capability, let alone anything else thats worth carrying the weight of the GPS. That is, unless something changed recently.

Thanks ZoomNBoom. You helped me a lot !!!

The reason I want to get into GPS is Im playing LOS cos I dont have any FPV on the quad atm. Even I having FPV and some times the FPV / RC radio will fall down. The point is : if I got the gps on the quad I can know the last location from the telemetry and it's a bit easier to find out where my quad is. And laterz I may build up a 450-500 size aero quad too.

I've been post some threads on different forum. Most of them recommend Lea-6 and M8N on the APM or Pixhawk rather than Naze32+Neo6M. I'll go and get lea-6 and M8N to do a test. Share it here , hope the people like me goes the right way.

Not many people care about cheap gps module and I would like to review some cheap module for beginner like me. No many people out there always want the expensive naza so at least I can share and let them know the pros and cons.

 

[spcrxj]

Does your Neo have the battery on it? If not then it's probably not storing it's almanac/empheresis data about the sats between boots which can make for very slow startup. Even if it has the battery it could be it's not fully charged. You may want to try leaving the GPS powered up for a few hours with good signal so the battery can charge up and then give it a try.

I've also found that changing location can cause fairly slow startups - I can test it at home and it will be up and locked in a minute or so...but get to the flying field and I have to leave it powered up for 5-15 minutes before it will lock from the new location sometimes.

Thx for the reply jhitesma.

My gps module does have a battery on it. And from the manual it says that the tiny battery only last 30mins with full charged.

As the datasheet said : The gps module will download the sats info from sat when it's started ( cold start ). So a cold start may taking about 5mins.

I've tested the gps in same location , same condition (same mounting place on the quad, with FC powered and etc.). The result I got is : with the gps module connected to the Naze32 , the "fixed" time is way slower then connected to U-Centre(I was getting like 1.8-2.3 HDOP indoor which is fairly good). I guess is the GNSS Software have something like A-GPS feature (Called AssistNow online/Offline and automos ). I'm trying to playaround it and buy some different gps module and have a look.

I'll post the result here

Thank you again : )

 

[jhitesma]

Yes u-center does speed things up by doing AGPS, so that could easily be a big part of the difference you're seeing.

The battery should be good for a few days at least, at least it has been on all the NEO's I've used.

 

[spcrxj]

Yes u-center does speed things up by doing AGPS, so that could easily be a big part of the difference you're seeing.

The battery should be good for a few days at least, at least it has been on all the NEO's I've used.

I'm trying to leave the gps module with FTDI for few hours. Thanks for the tips!!!
Now I'm working on the AssistNow offline see if I can get it faster to lock. I'll report back to here.
I've order lea-6 and M8N , I'll do a test later on : )

 

[jhitesma]

It was written for Tau...but it really applies to any FC that can use a GPS so you may find it interesting:

https://github.com/TauLabs/TauLabs/wiki/Recommendation-for-choosing-the-GPS-GNSS-element
https://github.com/TauLabs/TauLabs/wiki/GPS-GNSS-Accuracy

Telemetry and OSD really are the only two GPS things worth much bother on Naze with the current firmware (harikiri firmware may be better but I've yet to try it for a number of reasons unrelated to GPS) Pos hold works...but even with a lot of tuning doesn't hold much more than a few meters at best unless you're lucky and have perfect GPS conditions, RTH on Naze is worse than a coin toss each time you use it - I'd say it worked kind of about 1 out of 4 or 5 times I tried it.

I really need to get the GPS hooked back up on my Knuckle Tau and try the new code they came up with back near the start of the year...just been too busy to play

 

[spcrxj]

It was written for Tau...but it really applies to any FC that can use a GPS so you may find it interesting:

https://github.com/TauLabs/TauLabs/wiki/Recommendation-for-choosing-the-GPS-GNSS-element
https://github.com/TauLabs/TauLabs/wiki/GPS-GNSS-Accuracy

Telemetry and OSD really are the only two GPS things worth much bother on Naze with the current firmware (harikiri firmware may be better but I've yet to try it for a number of reasons unrelated to GPS) Pos hold works...but even with a lot of tuning doesn't hold much more than a few meters at best unless you're lucky and have perfect GPS conditions, RTH on Naze is worse than a coin toss each time you use it - I'd say it worked kind of about 1 out of 4 or 5 times I tried it.

I really need to get the GPS hooked back up on my Knuckle Tau and try the new code they came up with back near the start of the year...just been too busy to play

True,
I've looked at the links and it's about how to pick up a GPS module , pros and cons etc.
The biggest differences between them is the accuracy. So maybe pick up a M8N will much better then the 6M. I'll try later.
For the GPS hold , with ublox should be stay with in 5m-10m with a good tune. Still a dream to hold it stand still. But I think it's enough for a 450size quad. I dont have much hope for the RTH, at least not as DJI.But I want it return back in-sight so I still can call it back when it's out-of-sight, at least ; not the result now : it may fly to anywhere in the world, haha.

I've look at the harikiri fw, seens it just a MWii port to stm32 , is there any different between it and cleanflight? why dont they combine them together?

 

[ZoomNBoom]

For the GPS hold , with ublox should be stay with in 5m-10m with a good tune. Still a dream to hold it stand still.

Your GPS may achieve that level of accuracy, but few if any naze firmwares are able to properly navigate. At all.

But I want it return back in-sight so I still can call it back when it's out-of-sight, at least ;

With BF/CF, dont count on it, no matter how good your gps.

I've look at the harikiri fw, seens it just a MWii port to stm32 , is there any different between it and cleanflight? why dont they combine them together?

Although they share some heritage (multiwii), they have evolved separately for a very long time and are very different from each other in just about every regard. Harakiri used to be about the only multiwii firmware with usable GPS functionality, so their naze port is probably your best bet, but again, dont count on it just yet. I believe CF is slowly incorporating harakiri features. The PID controller is already in there, and I assume navigation will be done sooner or later as well, but it doesnt seem to be high priority for the dev(s).

For reliable GPS navigation (even 'just' RTH, which is navigation) on multirotors, there arent many good non proprietary solutions. AFAIK only APM/Pixhawk, which isnt very feasible on a miniquad.

 

[ZoomNBoom]

afterthought; if you are flying line of sight and are worried about, well losing sight; a very simple 'solution' for now, is to fly upwind, and if you lose it, just activate autolevel and altitude hold. That at least works well enough. Then just let the quad drift downwind.

 

[makattack]

All the comments and advice here are good. I would add that apm and pixhawk on 250 sized multis is possible now with all the mini/micro sized versions, but still might be a bit overkill.

 

[jhitesma]

Yep, looks like I got too late of a start this morning and zoom and mak beat me to it with good info

Honestly even the 6 has better accuracy than the Naze will be able to make use of. At least for North American users and others with good coverage by the US GPS system. Wasn't sure where you were located (but thanks to FB now see you're "not quite" in NA ) so I'm not sure what your GNSS situation is down there and the 7/8 may be a better option.

Basically the 6 is GPS only, the 7 can do GPS or GLONASS, and the 8 can do GPS and GLONASS.

But...even with GPS and GLONASS and SBAS you're still not going to get enough accuracy to rely entirely on GNSS so the FC still has to do some pretty heavy lifting with sensor fusion and trying to dead reckon on top of it to do a good hold. So basically the 8 isn't worth the extra cost as it doesn't give any noticeable benefit in practice even if in theory it should be more accurate. The choice between the 6 and the 7 depends on whether you have better GPS or GLONASS coverage in your area.

As for Harikiri - it's actually a fork of baseflight that split some time ago and has diverged greatly with a big focus on GPS/Nav and more willingness to accept changes like the lux PID controller. lux was submitted to BF long before CF existed and TimeCop's refusal to accept it into BF was one of the driving forces behing HK forking off.

I know Dominic has talked about bringing some of the nav stuff from HK over...but I wouldn't hold your breath. At least not for the Naze. Maybe down the road on the F3 boards. The F1 based boards are just pushed to their limits already and are out of space and processing resources. HK gives up some other stuff to prioritize nav and CF isn't going to do that.

RTF on any flight controller is a novelty IMHO and should never be considered as a recovery method or safety net. Always assume it will fail and be pleased if it doesn't

I would definitely suggest looking into pixhawk/apm or TauLabs if you really want to make good use of the GPS and get into navigation. APM is more mature but generally considered not as good at manual flying, Tau's nav has recently seen some major upgrades and is looking really good - but it's not as well documented as APM yet, on the other hand it's manual flight is IMHO outstanding and it even has a MW rate mode but it's based on the 2.3 MW PID controller since Tau already has a FP PID controller like lux as stock.

 

[spcrxj]

Hi

New update :
I've relocated the GPS module from back of the FC to the end of the quad. It goes very very well. I think it was about the gps interference from the Naze32. 7 sats in-door w/o active antenna.

Did a bit testing this afternoon. GPS hold well , drift a little bit but thats fine. At the first time I didn't put angle mode and baro mode combine with GPS Hold Mode, so 2 props gone. It's highly recommended to use GPS Hold with Angle mode and Baro Mode. RTH untested cos I don't take the risk of saying byebye to my quad atm. I'll find a car park to test it later and report here.

Thanks everyone!!!

Here's the mass build , still waiting for the FPV parts so I haven't tidy up the wires yet.

 

[spcrxj]

Yep, looks like I got too late of a start this morning and zoom and mak beat me to it with good info

Honestly even the 6 has better accuracy than the Naze will be able to make use of. At least for North American users and others with good coverage by the US GPS system. Wasn't sure where you were located (but thanks to FB now see you're "not quite" in NA ) so I'm not sure what your GNSS situation is down there and the 7/8 may be a better option.

Basically the 6 is GPS only, the 7 can do GPS or GLONASS, and the 8 can do GPS and GLONASS.

But...even with GPS and GLONASS and SBAS you're still not going to get enough accuracy to rely entirely on GNSS so the FC still has to do some pretty heavy lifting with sensor fusion and trying to dead reckon on top of it to do a good hold. So basically the 8 isn't worth the extra cost as it doesn't give any noticeable benefit in practice even if in theory it should be more accurate. The choice between the 6 and the 7 depends on whether you have better GPS or GLONASS coverage in your area.

As for Harikiri - it's actually a fork of baseflight that split some time ago and has diverged greatly with a big focus on GPS/Nav and more willingness to accept changes like the lux PID controller. lux was submitted to BF long before CF existed and TimeCop's refusal to accept it into BF was one of the driving forces behing HK forking off.

I know Dominic has talked about bringing some of the nav stuff from HK over...but I wouldn't hold your breath. At least not for the Naze. Maybe down the road on the F3 boards. The F1 based boards are just pushed to their limits already and are out of space and processing resources. HK gives up some other stuff to prioritize nav and CF isn't going to do that.

RTF on any flight controller is a novelty IMHO and should never be considered as a recovery method or safety net. Always assume it will fail and be pleased if it doesn't

I would definitely suggest looking into pixhawk/apm or TauLabs if you really want to make good use of the GPS and get into navigation. APM is more mature but generally considered not as good at manual flying, Tau's nav has recently seen some major upgrades and is looking really good - but it's not as well documented as APM yet, on the other hand it's manual flight is IMHO outstanding and it even has a MW rate mode but it's based on the 2.3 MW PID controller since Tau already has a FP PID controller like lux as stock.

Thanks so so much again and again jhitesma. I'm buying the M8N anyway to do some reviews, may just skip the 7. I'm living in New Zealand so I've no idea what PRN code I need to but I put 6 codes into the assist-now offline. IDK if it helps or not but it locks quite fast now. I'm building another quad for aero now so I'm getting APM. It's not that expensive comparing to others and the GPS is usable.

 

[spcrxj]

All the comments and advice here are good. I would add that apm and pixhawk on 250 sized multis is possible now with all the mini/micro sized versions, but still might be a bit overkill.

My wallet is so so slim that's why I go naze32 , hah

 

[spcrxj]

Your GPS may achieve that level of accuracy, but few if any naze firmwares are able to properly navigate. At all.



With BF/CF, dont count on it, no matter how good your gps.



Although they share some heritage (multiwii), they have evolved separately for a very long time and are very different from each other in just about every regard. Harakiri used to be about the only multiwii firmware with usable GPS functionality, so their naze port is probably your best bet, but again, dont count on it just yet. I believe CF is slowly incorporating harakiri features. The PID controller is already in there, and I assume navigation will be done sooner or later as well, but it doesnt seem to be high priority for the dev(s).

For reliable GPS navigation (even 'just' RTH, which is navigation) on multirotors, there arent many good non proprietary solutions. AFAIK only APM/Pixhawk, which isnt very feasible on a miniquad.

Thanks for the info. Boom
But why they dont just combine them together and focus at the same thing....

 

[spcrxj]

afterthought; if you are flying line of sight and are worried about, well losing sight; a very simple 'solution' for now, is to fly upwind, and if you lose it, just activate autolevel and altitude hold. That at least works well enough. Then just let the quad drift downwind.

That's a good way too !!! Thanks for the tips !!!
I'm a newbie so really would like to have a best solution before fly it hard.