Time to actually think about flying....

Icedog

Member
I finished building my swappable Spitfire, a project I started without even a single thought about electronics or even flying, and the time has come to think about those things. On the "noob" forum I got a lot of reasonable suggestions that this was possibly not the best choice for a first plane (hey, at least I didn't go for a Super-Hornet) and that perhaps I should build a trainer. I'm not anti-trainer by any means since I've never done any RC flying but based on some of the other vids I've watched maybe starting with the Aura Lite would effectively make this perform like a trainer....thought?

Re transmitters, it seems like the store's selection is a bit limited right now. I think I want to run the ailerons independently rather than connect with the supplied y-cable so that must means at least a 6-channel receiver/transmitter.

Batteries/chargers is another decision point. Since battery life is a bit limited you must need more than one to get decent flying time. Is there anything special to know about chargers other than LiPo compatibility? Special fireproof charging container? Really? Seems a bit extreme even given the fact that these batteries present a higher than normal risk profile.

Starting from scratch here so any/all advice appreciated....

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Mr NCT

Site Moderator
I finished building my swappable Spitfire, a project I started without even a single thought about electronics or even flying, and the time has come to think about those things. On the "noob" forum I got a lot of reasonable suggestions that this was possibly not the best choice for a first plane (hey, at least I didn't go for a Super-Hornet) and that perhaps I should build a trainer. I'm not anti-trainer by any means since I've never done any RC flying but based on some of the other vids I've watched maybe starting with the Aura Lite would effectively make this perform like a trainer....thought?

Re transmitters, it seems like the store's selection is a bit limited right now. I think I want to run the ailerons independently rather than connect with the supplied y-cable so that must means at least a 6-channel receiver/transmitter.

Batteries/chargers is another decision point. Since battery life is a bit limited you must need more than one to get decent flying time. Is there anything special to know about chargers other than LiPo compatibility? Special fireproof charging container? Really? Seems a bit extreme even given the fact that these batteries present a higher than normal risk profile.

Starting from scratch here so any/all advice appreciated....

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What a beauty! Don't kick yourself for picking something cool as your first plane. You WILL crash it, everybody does. I haven't built a Spitfire but everyone here says it's the easiest of the warbirds to fly. Now you know most of the tricks to building it so your next one will go smoother and quicker.
Two choices with radios & receivers: open source like Radiomaster or proprietary like Spektrum. They both have ardent supporters who will argue ad nauseum about their virtues. The bottom line is they both work fine and the first one you buy is probably what you'll stick with. I went with a Spektrum DX6e with memory for lots of different set ups and am very happy.
I went with Tattu batteries to start and haven't been disappointed. I started with a quick charger for the batteries and eventually got one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00466PKE0/?tag=lstir-20
A lipo bag gives me peace of mind for about $15 so why not?
Happy flying! Be sure to post a video.
 

Icedog

Member
What a beauty! Don't kick yourself for picking something cool as your first plane. You WILL crash it, everybody does. I haven't built a Spitfire but everyone here says it's the easiest of the warbirds to fly. Now you know most of the tricks to building it so your next one will go smoother and quicker.
Two choices with radios & receivers: open source like Radiomaster or proprietary like Spektrum. They both have ardent supporters who will argue ad nauseum about their virtues. The bottom line is they both work fine and the first one you buy is probably what you'll stick with. I went with a Spektrum DX6e with memory for lots of different set ups and am very happy.
I went with Tattu batteries to start and haven't been disappointed. I started with a quick charger for the batteries and eventually got one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00466PKE0/?tag=lstir-20
A lipo bag gives me peace of mind for about $15 so why not?
Happy flying! Be sure to post a video.

Hey...thanks for the feedback. It will be helpful. I like the memory idea as I'm sure I'll have other planes in the build queue to be ready to press into use when I crash something beyond repair.
 

dave1up

New member
I suggest you pickup a tiny trainer kit. Build & learn to fly on it first. Make templates so you can rebuild as you're going to crash alot.

You dont want to ruin all your hard work on that beautiful plane the first trip to the park.

I went through multiple tiny trainers before stepping up to Simple Stick & then SPONZ VP Sidewinder & Durafly Tundra.

I use a ISDT q6 charger, RadioMaster tx16s radio & Express LRS long range system.

I have 3-4 lipos per plane usually, i try to build planes that can use the same batteries. Batteries last alot longer than my planes :)

I use an ammo box to store the lipos & charge on my garage concrete floor. Read up about charging rates, - 1c ; 2c etc. Charging a 2000mah battery @ 2amps is 1c, 4 amps would be 2c. When I have time I charge @ 1c, when im in a rush i charge @ 2c, you can go higher depending on the battery but I usually dont.

I also used a simulator to practice before flying at the field....
 

quorneng

Master member
Icedog
As a flying 'noob' the problem you will have is the speed of your eye/finger coordination. You will see what the plane is doing but it will take time for your brain to work out what is happening and then which finger to move and by how much. Humans do not have this reaction instinctively built in so it has to be 'learned'. The only way we have available is by repetition until the brain builds up direct neural pathways that eliminate the thinking time. Some people learn faster than others but we all have to learn.

So it does indeed make sense to start with a plane that within limits looks after itself and what it does do it does slowly enough for you to be able to react before anything has changed too much. This what a trainer does.
Of course you also have to throw in the effects of winds & weather which can make any plane behave differently. A bit of a problem if you are still trying to learn what is 'normal' so pick as calm a day as possible for the first few flights.

As has already been stated whilst learning you will get a reaction wrong or simply too slow and you most likely then crash.
Best not to put your pride and joy at undue risk too early in the learning process.

I hope this helps.
 

luvmy40

Elite member
Icedog,

That's a beautiful Spit! I took a similar route when I got back into building. I have very limited expiernce in RC flying and that was 30 + years ago.

My first build was the Simple Cub and spent a lot of time painting and detailing it. It was promptly smashed to smalll bits on it's maiden.

My next build was the Mini Master Series Corsair. I didn't bother painting it. I got a full five minutes of flight time(6 attempts with field repairs between) on it before it was irreparably damaged.

My Tiny Trainer has been repaired several times, but i have learned more from flying it in 3 channel mode than I did from the Cub or the Corsair.

I am also playing with the Mini Speedster right now. I'll hold my recomendation until I get a little more stick time with it.

BTW, at least in my area, the best flying time is early morning. It's calmer and less chance of losing sight in the sun's glare.

Good luck! Remember, "Build, Fly, Crash, Repeat!"
 

Bo123

Elite member
I suggest you pickup a tiny trainer kit. Build & learn to fly on it first. Make templates so you can rebuild as you're going to crash alot.

You dont want to ruin all your hard work on that beautiful plane the first trip to the park.

I went through multiple tiny trainers before stepping up to Simple Stick & then SPONZ VP Sidewinder & Durafly Tundra.

I use a ISDT q6 charger, RadioMaster tx16s radio & Express LRS long range system.

I have 3-4 lipos per plane usually, i try to build planes that can use the same batteries. Batteries last alot longer than my planes :)

I use an ammo box to store the lipos & charge on my garage concrete floor. Read up about charging rates, - 1c ; 2c etc. Charging a 2000mah battery @ 2amps is 1c, 4 amps would be 2c. When I have time I charge @ 1c, when im in a rush i charge @ 2c, you can go higher depending on the battery but I usually dont.

I also used a simulator to practice before flying at the field....
I heard the tiny trainer wasn't a good plane to learn on, that the scout is amazing.
 

Icedog

Member
Icedog
As a flying 'noob' the problem you will have is the speed of your eye/finger coordination. You will see what the plane is doing but it will take time for your brain to work out what is happening and then which finger to move and by how much. Humans do not have this reaction instinctively built in so it has to be 'learned'. The only way we have available is by repetition until the brain builds up direct neural pathways that eliminate the thinking time. Some people learn faster than others but we all have to learn.

So it does indeed make sense to start with a plane that within limits looks after itself and what it does do it does slowly enough for you to be able to react before anything has changed too much. This what a trainer does.
Of course you also have to throw in the effects of winds & weather which can make any plane behave differently. A bit of a problem if you are still trying to learn what is 'normal' so pick as calm a day as possible for the first few flights.

As has already been stated whilst learning you will get a reaction wrong or simply too slow and you most likely then crash.
Best not to put your pride and joy at undue risk too early in the learning process.

I hope this helps.

"Normal" days in New Mexico this time of year seem to be 15 mph steady winds with much higher gusts so not ideal weather for learning to fly anything. Looks like the store is sold-out of "A" powerpacks so all the tiny craft are now powerless so I guess my trainer is going to have to wait. I've gotten some suggestions to go with a simulator first but I'm not exactly sure how the transmitter actually interfacess with a trainer program. Something else to research.
 

Icedog

Member
I suggest you pickup a tiny trainer kit. Build & learn to fly on it first. Make templates so you can rebuild as you're going to crash alot.

You dont want to ruin all your hard work on that beautiful plane the first trip to the park.

I went through multiple tiny trainers before stepping up to Simple Stick & then SPONZ VP Sidewinder & Durafly Tundra.

I use a ISDT q6 charger, RadioMaster tx16s radio & Express LRS long range system.

I have 3-4 lipos per plane usually, i try to build planes that can use the same batteries. Batteries last alot longer than my planes :)

I use an ammo box to store the lipos & charge on my garage concrete floor. Read up about charging rates, - 1c ; 2c etc. Charging a 2000mah battery @ 2amps is 1c, 4 amps would be 2c. When I have time I charge @ 1c, when im in a rush i charge @ 2c, you can go higher depending on the battery but I usually dont.

I also used a simulator to practice before flying at the field....

Looks like I might have missed the trainer window for the moment. I just saw that the store has no more "A" power packs in stock. I imagine I could go with a larger motor but lower power battery and maybe get the same result? I'm curious about the simulator thing. Is there some sort of USB that interfaces the transmitter with the program? Sounds like a great video game...
 

Icedog

Member
Icedog,

That's a beautiful Spit! I took a similar route when I got back into building. I have very limited expiernce in RC flying and that was 30 + years ago.

My first build was the Simple Cub and spent a lot of time painting and detailing it. It was promptly smashed to smalll bits on it's maiden.

My next build was the Mini Master Series Corsair. I didn't bother painting it. I got a full five minutes of flight time(6 attempts with field repairs between) on it before it was irreparably damaged.

My Tiny Trainer has been repaired several times, but i have learned more from flying it in 3 channel mode than I did from the Cub or the Corsair.

I am also playing with the Mini Speedster right now. I'll hold my recomendation until I get a little more stick time with it.

BTW, at least in my area, the best flying time is early morning. It's calmer and less chance of losing sight in the sun's glare.

Good luck! Remember, "Build, Fly, Crash, Repeat!"

Thanks for your insight...I was moving in the direction of the Cub since I could swap the "A" pack for the "C" pack from the Spitfire once I got some flying time in for a little more experience w/higher performance but your 3-channel experience reinforces the idea of starting simple. And since the trainer can be flown with both 3 and 4 channel options it has a lot of flexibility.
 

Piotrsko

Master member
If you are trending towards ailerons, there is no actual benefit for learning rudder flying techniques other than the aircraft is slightly simpler to build or trim and teaching your thumb how to grossly move a transmitter stick in two directions at the same time. When you go 4 channel, you have to teach that skill to your other hand, which in my case seems impossible.
 

Icedog

Member
Been away for a while....but finally getting electronics installed just in time for Winter in New Mexico but the local club still flies so I hope it won't be long before I'm out giving it a go. Last "construction" project was finally getting gear installed. Took a half day including air brushing invasion stripes on the underside so it blends in a little better. Steerable tail wheel too!

I don't have my transmitter yet...coming soon...but I am installing a Spektrum AR410 receiver. It means no individual airleron control but I'm sure that isn't going to hold me back. For anyone that's using the 410 I'm a little confused with the connections. If the throttle off the ESC goes to 1, aerlerons to 2, elevator to 3 and rudder to 4....what connects to the battery connection? Anything?

For anyone that's built the swappable Spitfire I'm wondering about battery location. I'm going to hang the battery under the power pod initially with a rubber band to I can move it around to the CG correct but I'm not sure the leads are long enough to get it far enough forward. Might I have to fab an extension to the battery cables?
 

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Icedog

Member
Answered some of my own questions....1-battery needs to be so far forward it almost needs to "kiss" the prop to get the correct attitude...2-there are both motor lead and battery extensions available so I can take my pick. Leaning toward motor lead then I can velcro ESC to the bottom of the power pod for max cooling.
 

MrKilometer

Member
The battery doesn't connect directly to the receiver, as that would over-volt it. If your ESC has three signal wires, it'll provide the necessary voltage to power the receiver through the throttle channel. On the other hand, if the ESC only has two wires, you'll need a Battery Eliminator Circuit (BEC).

I would highly recommend you get a sim to practice on before you go fly this beauty, and get an experienced pilot to buddy-box on your first flights. Having the option to swap controls to the flight instructor is a common practice in full-scale airplanes, and it has the same benefits when flying R/C.
 

Icedog

Member
I have thought about a flight sim....any thoughts on what the best one is? I'm going with the Spektrum D6e transmitter. I think 6 channels is enough for my purposes. Most of the local club members are also Spektrum users so it should be easy enough to buddy-box with someone.
 
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MrKilometer

Member
Realflight is the best if you have a PC. The latest version is quite pricey, but you can find older versions on eBay for much less that work just as well. 6 Channels is enough for throttle, ailerons, elevator, rudder, flaps, and retractable landing gear.
 

sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
Wow - LOT of stuff to go over here to help you out.

1) Transmitters are a personal thing. As mentioned before, there are a bunch of different brands. I personally like Spektrum, because in my area, all of the hobby shops carry them and carry their receivers. Also, nearly everyone at my flying field uses Spektrum, so if I have to ask a question of someone on programming, or how to set up something more complicated like mixes (don't sweat that as a beginner!) then I will likely have someone at the field who might've run into those configurations and I can pick their brains for knowledge. That could all be the same if everyone at the field is flying Futaba, or FrSky, or Jumper, or Radiomaster - you have a resource for knowledge based on the other people who are flying that same brand of radio.

I will tell you that the biggest thing for me when it comes to a transmitter is ergonomics. I played with the FrSky X-Lite a few years back at the AMA Expo, and I personally hated it. Why? Because it felt like a game controller, and some of the switches weren't easy to reach for me without taking my hands off of the sticks. That said, there are a few kids at my field who have them and absolutely LOVE the controller because it fits well in their hands. This is something that's kind of a personal fit.

Also, as weird as this sounds, (and coming back to a personal preference) I like a transmitter that has a bit of weight to it. I tried out a FlySky IX6 and it felt light in my hands. The sticks felt like they were made of plastic, and in the back of my head all I could think was, "If I panic and push hard in a direction to try and recover from something stupid I'm doing, I might end up breaking this thing in half!!!" So, another personal feel thing. You may really like that lightweight feeling of the transmitter, but for me? It doesn't work at all for me.

I see that you're looking at the Spektrum DX6e, which is a great radio which will last you for a while. There are a few minor (and I mean MINOR - I wanted the ability to hear a voice call out how many minutes I had left on a timer, for example) things that steered me away from buying one when I was learning to fly, but that's a great radio that will last you for several years until you require an 8 channel transmitter for a bigger plane.

2) With regards to the AR410 receiver:

The very first slot is the "battery" section. This used to be used (and still is used in some instances) for a battery pack to power the receiver. This way, if you ran out of power on the battery powering your motor, you would still have power for your servos to control the plane and bring it in for a landing. It's not used much anymore on the electric planes, but is still used on some of the gas/nitro aircraft, or in some of the higher end large scale planes, simply to ensure enough power to control things like landing gear, multiple servos, bomb bay doors, etc., especially if they're larger hi-torque servos.

If you are using an ESC with a built in BEC (Battery Elimination Circuit), you won't need this. Most ESCs have this nowadays, so you can just connect up your battery to the ESC and power your servos without too much fuss. Connecting up the receiver is fairly easy; the first slot on most Spektrum 4 channel receivers are either the Bind or Battery slot, followed with the TAER acronym - Throttle, Aileron, Elevator, and Rudder. Since they're not labeled as such on the AR410, it's 1-Throttle, 2-Aileron, 3-Elevator, 4-Rudder.

3) Chargers:

Chargers are varied. The more you spend on them, the nicer you'll find them to be. But this is loaded as well, because you need to pay attention to what you're buying.

A lot of chargers are DC only, meaning that you'll either need to connect them up to a 12v power source, like a car battery (it is NOT recommended to hook it directly up to your car's battery when it's in the car; if a battery gets too much charge and decides to go up, it's now taking your engine bay and car with it, and there's nothing you're going to do to stop that sucker from being a total loss), or the alternative, where you have some sort of AC to DC transformer that plugs into the wall power at home and then converts it to DC power. Some people will use computer power supplies to connect their units, buying a 400w power supply to connect and charge their batteries.

Other options are to get an AC/DC charger, which will allow you to use AC at home to charge, and DC if you're out at the field with a car battery (or like at my field, where we have a solar power charging station that's connected to a couple of deep cycle car batteries that get a constant charge from the solar panel during the day). Several chargers that come to mind are the ISDT K2 or K4, or the HiTec X2 AC Black, but others may have other recommendations.

Depending on how big of a plane you decide to progress to, you'll also want to think about charging some of the larger batteries. Most of the cheapest chargers will do 2S-3S battery chargers; some will do 4S as well. If you want to get into things like racing quads, helicopters, or larger scale or 3D aircraft, they'll likely start using 5S or 6S batteries, and the cheap chargers won't be able to charge them - or if they can, they'll charge them at a dramatically slow rate of charge, where it can take a couple of hours to bring a battery to full charge.

I currently have the HiTec X2 AC Black, which, while being a little underpowered on its wattage, has some nice features for the price, as well as an Imax B6 charger that I inherited from my father after he passed away almost 2 years ago. The HiTec charger has the ability to charge two different batteries at the same time, which is REALLY nice. I do flight instruction for my club on Monday nights during the summer, and so I'll drag my batteries and charger in to work on those Mondays and start charging them. I run through sometimes 6 batteries each training session, so the ability to charge up 2 batteries at the same time means I might only be charging for 3-4 hours, as opposed to 6-7. The HiTec's wattage does make it suffer a little on the charging time when I'm charging two batteries at the same time; it has the ability to charge with 200w, but that 200w is split between the multiple channels, so I'm really only charging 100w per channel, slowing the process down a little bit. The HiTec also has an app that you can download and use on Android or iOS, and it'll allow you to make and scan QR codes for your batteries, so you don't have to go through storage settings each time you're changing out to different batteries - simply open up the app, connect the battery, scan the code, and the charger starts charging. When it's done, it'll pop up an alert on your phone to tell you it's complete.

The Imax B6 charger works, and charges batteries, but it's severely underpowered and is limited to 50w for charging, as well as only having 1 channel to charge on. They're really inexpensive, but trying to charge larger batteries, it falls short. Charging a 3S 3200mah battery (the standard battery we use for flying in our training sessions), it can take well over an hour to charge just one.

That's where spending a little more money can get you more wattage and more features, so the trade off might be worth buying something other than the absolute cheapest option. I think that the two things to invest in at the start are your transmitter and your charger, because they'll last you for several years, and as you grow as a pilot, you'll be a little "future resistant" until you find you have a need for something more.
 

sprzout

Knower of useless information
Mentor
I have thought about a flight sim....any thoughts on what the best one is? I'm going with the Spektrum D6e transmitter. I think 6 channels is enough for my purposes. Most of the local club members are also Spektrum users so it should be easy enough to buddy-box with someone.

LOL the "best" sims depend on what you're looking to fly, what operating system you're running on the computer, and what transmitter you're using.

RealFlight is a great sim - but it's only good if you're flying on a PC. I realize that the world at large is PC driven, but I have a Mac currently (my old computer died a horrible death, and I inherited my father's Mac after he passed away), so I am a little more limited in what I can use for a simulator. In addition, it depends on what you're wanting to learn to fly.

I started flying racing quads before I even got into fixed wing aircraft and helicopters, and because of that, my first sim was Liftoff. It is a SOLID simulator for flying FPV racing quads, with lots of customization, and the ability to play with Betaflight tuning that can convert to real world practice. It is NOT perfect, however, especially if you want to fly planes; there's NO fixed wing aircraft in the sim whatsoever. But its quad simulation is one of the best I've seen, and it runs on Windows, Mac, AND Linux.

Also for Mac and Windows is AeroFly RC. It's on par with RealFlight, and I'd say is the closest thing to it that runs on the Mac. I had AeroFly RC version 7 running on an 8 year old Mac Mini, so it will run, but it's not as smooth and requires a little more horsepower to run smoothly than RealFlight, but it's the alternative if you're on a Mac, and allows you to fly helicopters, gliders, float planes, quadcopters, EDF jets, gassers, etc.

Regardless of which sim you go with, make sure it is compatible with a transmitter of some sort. Don't try to fly with a video game controller; it'll drive you bonkers. Use either the Interlink controller that you can get with Realflight, or a wireless USB dongle that you can connect up to your computer. I used to have an OrangeRX DSMX wireless dongle, and it worked great, right up until my computer had a power surge and burned out half of the things connected to the USB ports; the dongle happened to be one of those things that went up. It was cheap, and it lasted me for over 5 years, but now that Hobbyking has them on back order for US or Hong Kong warehouses, the Spektrum WS2000 wireless dongle is less than the OrangeRX due to shipping costs, and is a more solid unit than the OrangeRX. Fly with your transmitter in the sim - you'll build muscle memory and learn how to deal with things like "Right is left and left is right" when the plane is coming towards you, or "down is up, and up is expensive" when you're inverted. :)