Pick my next plane! How slow can you go?

[mesolost]

OK I want another plane but I have some conditions it's gotta meet so I'm asking the most knowledgeable people I know, the FliteTest community. I'd like it to be a larger plane so it can handle mild to moderate wind/gusts without getting too squirrely and it has to be able to fly very slow, slower than that, like I want to be able to sprint and out run the plane. I want it for landing practice and I want my dad to be able to train on it. He wants to fly but he's afraid to break my planes and I need a second transmitter before I can pass on my DX6i to him. He's retired Air Force jet mechanic, I'm retired/disabled submariner navigation electronics tech, and mom is just disabled so we're all fixed income here and I'm the only one that has enough left over income to budget in flying so I'm paying both of our way into the hobby. So just for reference and fast reading here's the quick list.

New plane must meet these requirements:
- Scratch buildable from DTFB
- Larger size for wind stability
- Insanely slow flight envelope

Power and control setup has no real requirements because I know how to bargain shop and program mixes now. ^_^

 

[Grounded Gremlin]

FT Storch? Easy and insanely slow...

Otherwise, I would suggest perhaps a Kraken?? On a low power setup and low throws it would be v easy to fly, as well as very durable. You could even try a 200% Fogey?

 

[IFlyRCstuff]

Storch definetely. I almost want to say a viggen, excdpt it isn't as big and is a little harder to fly.

 

[Stradawhovious]

If you decide to go kit instead of DTFB, get this.

GWS Slow Stick.

I've landed it vertically in a light breeze and flown it backwards. I can walk along side mine as it lands.

If you put just a little bit of weight on it (I put some larger landing gear on mine), it can handle 10-15 mph winds no problem with nothing more than a Blue Wonder.

If you pay more than $30 for a NIB kit you have been ripped off.

http://www.headsuphobby.com/GWS-SLOW-STICK-RED-GWS103.htm

 

[RAM]

Mikey's FPV will do it.

Mods to pay attention to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI8xvAToCvk&feature=player_detailpage#t=145

Plans http://mikeysrc.com/MRC_FPV_V3.pdf (I don't think he updated the plans with the further back mounting of the motor but it's a simple thing to do)

 

[AkimboGlueGuns]

The original old speedster will work great too. IMO it's more stable and easier to fly than the old fogey. Looks great too.

 

[mesolost]

Absolutely excellent guys. ^_^ I was already lookin into the Simple Storch because of the top fuselage mounted wing and the wingspan. Mikeys FPV platform will be after the Storch for some summer fun and the GWS Slow Stick will probably come in the fall for indoor fly season. And drop a link to this in my RC favorites folder... (low tone) sweeeeeeeeet. Mikeys FPV flyer plan could use an assembly guide though. =\

example

1 2 3
4 5 6

The order you tape the plans together.

Now to print and prep the Storch plans. ^_^

 

[SP0NZ]

Now to print and prep the Storch plans. ^_^

I rearranged those plans to make them easier to use. Click the link in my signature for my plans index and look for the link under the FT Planes. If your printing the tiled plans, I'm pretty sure this will make your life a little easier.

 

[mesolost]

Yeah, tiled is all I can do atm. Thanks for the heads up on the plans.

Edit: OK I won't be able to use your plans though because I'm limited to 8.5x11 paper. -.- Adobe is tellin me your plans are intended for 34x22 paper.

RE-Edit: Call me stupid cuz I see the 8.5x11 tiles when I scroll further down. LOL

 

[mrwzrd59]

Gee Whiz! Tiny trainer! Why direct him to a more moderate plane to build (Storch??) when the FT minions have already taken the issues out of building and flying a simple plane that will handle some wind too. The Old Speedster is only a 3 channel and is horrible in any wind over a snail fart! Indoor rig only!

The tiny trainer will slow down to a crawl and is very easy to build. Go for it!

 

[mesolost]

I have a rather lengthy skill set and a lot of DIY experience. Any of these FT plans are child's play to assemble to me. ^_^ The Storch will be docile enough, and without the dihedral, will fly more like the aircraft both dad and I are accustomed to. (MSFS for me and actual jets for him) For now I can setup a copied profile for him with even more rate limits and expo as well as a throttle limit. I already have 2 FPV suitable cameras, one board level salvaged from a security camera and one is an actual plane ready metal encased micro camera so all I'll need to get is the vid TX/RX and the basic starter goggles from HobbyKing to make him more comfortable flying RC.

TINY trainer. I don't want tiny, I want large and in charge slow bird and from what I've seen the Storch will fit the bill nicely to begin with. Although I'll probably be getting that GWS Slow Stick sooner than later since my flight club just posted a video of them (3 at once) having a great time out at the field.

 

[degriz]

Check out the bald eagle Jamboree1 posted in the mad scratch builders section. I have built the same one and it might fit your needs.

Big
flys slow
Easy to build and fly 3 channel
looks great soaring

 

[Craftydan]

The Storch will be docile enough, and without the dihedral, will fly more like the aircraft both dad and I are accustomed to.

By all means experiment as you build, but I'd highly recommend sticking with the designed dihedral built into the Storch.

MOST planes fly with a little dihedral, even aileron trainers. It doesn't have to be much (and the 4.5 degrees on the storch isn't) but she'll fly better for it and still "feel" right.

Also just before you fold the wing, glue a paint stick on the inside-side of the top wing layer, parallel to the center wing joint on both sides, running from the last crease to the trailing edge, right about where the rubber bands will go. You'll need to cut a matching notch in your spacer glued onto the bottom layer so it still folds flush. The top wing layer is weak just behind the top/bottom joint and the rubber bands over time crumple the wing cord-wise, changing your angle of attack and camber -- if it happens in flight she'll instantly become a handful.

 

[mesolost]

ok I guess I didn't pay enough attention to the build video. lol I so thought it had a flat wing design since they used a table and a 2x4 to assemble the wing.

I grabbed some foam packing blocks from WalMart. They are putting in new coolers here and they have these light weight dense as heck blocks they use in the packaging so I swiped a few. Figured it was better for me to recycle them than to have them throw them out after 1 use. Think that'll work? I'll cut a chunk about 1/2-3/4 inch wider than the plane on both sides and profile it for the cavity between the wings. I mean if those plastic and metal packing straps barely put a dent in them, then I figure it's a decently compression resistant foam. And you can be sure I'm gonna add strength anywhere I can after my first scratch(speed build scout kit) built plane only lasted me about 3 weeks.

 

[Craftydan]

They did assemble it flat, then crushed and glued the foam along the top with a 9 degree dihedral gauge (4.5 on each side).

Not quite sure I understand what you're planning with the foam blocks. (seems like an interesting material, just not sure how you'd best use it here). The issue I pointed out isn't filling voids as much as increasing stiffness behind the lower/upper sheet joint -- it's along that joint the trailing edge piece will crumple. Good paint stirrer sticks are free at Home Depot (Lowes too, but their sticks are a bit lower quality), so it costs you time to go to the paint desk and ask. I always keep a small supply on hand, and as they get used I pick up a few more when I'm there buying whatever.

As for re-enforcement, do so sparingly and only where you suspect you need it. Many builders are of the opinion that aircraft tails are overbuilt . . . because they alone survive crashes. An overbuilt plane is generally a heavy plane and weight will work against you in both flying *and* surviving a crash. DTFB planes are cheap *BECAUSE* they're disposable. Starting from SBK or plans, build it out of sheet DTFB -- shapes transferred and cut -- and time becomes the big cost when you're forced to rebuild. You can't avoid having to rebuild it, so make it cheap and easy to punch out new parts

 

[mesolost]

For the foam block, picture the wing cross section and the air void in the area covered by the rubber bands. Now picture that area there completely filled with a light weight near uncompressible material. So I'm not adding all the weight of another paint stick but instead just a piece of foam that only reinforces the area under that compression stress. ^_^ I'll take pictures when I assemble it.

Gotta wait a bit though cuz I need more printer ink before I can print the plans. -.- I'm gonna go a bit overboard with the DTFB I buy though =p (quantity wise)

As for the extra reinforcements I got that covered. Material stress analysis is one of the things built into my engineer's eyes. =p I just want to be able to take a rough landing and have minimal breakage if any and not necessarily an indestructible setup. More so on the fuselage because the wings are removable and as such will be fairly easy to replace.

Thanks for bringing the dihedral to my attention. I'll go back and watch the build video again and pay more attention this time. =p

 

[JUSS10]

I'll put in a plug for the bi plane I scratch built. Its not huge but it can fly slow. It can also pack down and carry nice since both wings are removable. I flew it the other day in pretty high winds. I thought it felt very stable even in the wind. You could turn the nose in the to wind and just stall there if you get a consistent breeze. Its pretty much my favorite plane and my go to plane for nice easy flying.

http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?14791-First-scratch-built-plane-Vintage-style-Bi-Plane

Justin

 

[mesolost]

Here's the blocks of foam I'm talking about. That's IS me standing on one and I'm about 170-180lbs so you know they can take some weight. Plus you can see the minimal groves the metal strapping made in them. =p

 

[Winglet]

Hey Mike,

Yes, I would say the Tiny Trainer for sure. In fact I just started building one for myself. It's not like my first airplane either. It is more like my 400th! I like the simplicity and versatility. If you haven't watch the videos yet you might want to do that.

 

[Winglet]

Mike, I know you can build. Saw your Spitfire. Wow!