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A new level of stupid

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#1
I am in a legal battle with a local club that insists that the old analogue radio rules for safety of operation are all that is required for safe operation digital radio equipment. Their idea of safety is to always turn the transmitter on first and to turn off the transmitter only after the receiver battery has been removed.

Anyway the "Safe" club with its rules had an incident, (unsurprisingly), in which a transmitter was accidentally turned off whilst the model was powered up in the pit area. Initially nothing happened, apparently, but a little later the model control surfaces started to move and the motor started to rotate randomly often at high throttle settings.

The club rules require members to always set failsafe BUT they are not expected to test it at all, (simply they cannot due to the tx on first and off last club rules), Well the experts "Investigated" the incident and decided it verified their rule requirement for rx battery to be removed before the tx is turned off. END OF INVESTIGATION!

The stupid part is obviously the issue was either a faulty failsafe setting perhaps combined with a receiver having other issues in itself like contamination, (water ingress or similar). Now consider if the model had flown away when it last flew, (quite possible and a known occurrence at the club), the plane might have come to rest well outside of the flying field, It is in a suburban area with a children's playground sharing a boundary with the field. If the plane landed or crashed where a child could pick it up to play with it and then the plane exhibited the same behaviour, as it exhibited in the pit area, a child could be seriously maimed or injured. In this case the transmitter being still turned on would make zero difference.

The safety message is simple. Use and test failsafe! If your receiver or model act erratically DO NOT FLY IT! Take it back to he workshop and fix it instead.
Use SMARTSAFE and leave the tx off until you need it as it is the only possible legitimate source of a throttle up command.

Just 2 other facts. It was a DSMX setup though it may not have been a genuine spektrum receiver AND the plane was allowed to be used again immediately without any performance, setup checks or any other safety evaluation.

To me it is a genuine case of STUPID. Which is typical of what I have been battling. See definition of STUPID;

Have safe fun!
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#4
Nice video selection.

Block 1, Day 1, hour 1, USAF electronics school 1972: "ignorance is repairable, stupidity is fatal" written on the blackboard before we enter

How goes the war? Haven't heard anything from you for a while
Surprisingly my electronics training was RAAF starting in 1975.

As for progress The first skirmish is to be ended one way or another tomorrow and formally a state of war was declared yesterday which startled the STUPID'S legal team..

Not realising I was battling stupid I gave them massive amounts of proof from chipset information and functional descriptions, safety demonstration, explanations of the communications sequences with strengths and weaknesses all of which was a total waste of time, (after my realising the reasoning behind their inability to learn anything). It scares me that 2 of the STUPIDS have a civil aviation background of working on commercial aviation aircraft. I wont fly on their airlines in future for my own safety.

Stupidity is an impediment to rational thought and the ability to acquire actual knowledge.

I am unsure if the situation is the same in the US but here the technical ignorance goes right up to the National aviation authority. I found similar in the US national model associations as well as the British. It appears that STUPID is everywhere. It was also a surprise to the stupid people that I had started training and working in digital radio 30 years ago now! Unlike them my background is confidential still, vast in applications and technologies and I research new tech almost continuously, (I love the challenge!).

Veterans are apparently disturbed people who think differently to ordinary persons, Thank Goodness, (in my case).

Well personally I am flying a lot of micros and doing a fair bit of work in modifying micros and putting them on multi-protocol radios. As well as gaining ammunition for the up coming war. Also still working of the design of a amputee radio system as well as tons of other projects. I now fly DSM, DSMX, FrSky, FlySky, Eachine, XK, Volantrix, and other protocols and fit and configure Flight controllers and simple stabilisers in any plane in which they are needed. Simply keeping busy!

I am always in the background here, (part of my research), but I do not need to get into a battle with any stupid people on the forum, (and yes they do exist here to), simply because I have more than my fair share in my local area! I think I will use the term BAKA to describe them as it would take them a lifetime to even consider it as being an apt descriptor.

We have a small group of NOT STUPID people who I fly with now legally in the face of, and despite the wishes and actions of, the STUPID people. I have approved sites for my activities that they cannot remove and effectively they only have a single area in which to fly whereas I have literally hundreds. They could lose that site :unsure::whistle:.They have forgotten the old adage "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!".

I hope you are enjoying your activities and thank you for the supportive comments. Battling STUPID can be very draining!

Keep having fun!
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#5
"I am in a legal battle with a local club ..."

When hobbies stop being fun.
Well the flying can cause anxiety but when you realise you are battling STUPID it can be actually quite humorous and easy deal with simply the weakness of STUPID is that they do not know they are stupid and are incapable of change. When a STUPID person is unsafe or wrong they will always be so and when PROOF appears the STUPIDS have no possible answer and often disappear. It just takes time to go though the regulatory authorities.

The ID requirements inflicted upon US drone operators are just a method of the government being able to identify the STUPID people. If you have ever observed a stupid person or watched their video posts you have encouraged them and justified the ID system inadvertently.

Hobbies are fun. STUPID is hilarious, and very dangerous at the same time.

Have fun, and if you encounter STUPID ..... RUN!
 

Ketchup

4s mini mustang
#7
I tried searching this a while back but I couldn’t get a good answer online (at least not with my search methods). What is smartsafe? I run spektrum and if I can make my procedures safer I would like to do so. Are there any videos on setting it up or anything?
 

TheFlyingBrit

Legendary member
#8
Sounds like another Spektrum-ism a word thought up in the boardroom, "buy the new Spektrum DX9000 transmitter with smarsafe built in" $$$$$$$$$.
Sorry just a bit of fun :LOL: don't get upset.
I have no idea what it is ? I have been looking it up myself but only found this: google" AR7200bx Smarsafe" and several forums will come up.
There is no " T "in SMARSAFE.
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#9
I tried searching this a while back but I couldn’t get a good answer online (at least not with my search methods). What is smartsafe? I run spektrum and if I can make my procedures safer I would like to do so. Are there any videos on setting it up or anything?
Smartsafe is a version of Failsafe BUT it only sets the throttle channel, Hopefully to minimum. Using smartsafe it is safe to power up the receiver first or only and the throttle will NOT be activated and the receiver will not complete its boot up because it needs the throttle information from its bound transmitter to do so.
I have tested the same operation on all other brands of digital radio I have used and it works the same on all radios as it is a technological feature, (the power up response of the receiver that is).

With Spektrum however the method of setting faisafe is NOT menu driven as you are required to hold the controls in the position you wish to be used as the failsafe settings whilst the receiver is bound.

Secondly the actual version of failsafe you will set is dependant upon on how you use the bind plug on the receiver. Leave it in for ordinary failsafe and quickly remove it after the receiver is placed in bind mode for Smartsafe.

Now here is the kicker. Not all DSMX receivers support both versions of failsafe and you can only find out what is supported by the receiver in the RECEIVER manual. If you try to use a version of failsafe that is not supported you may get an incorrect failsafe setup or none at all.

Spektrum receivers will not enter bind mode if the receiver is powered up first UNLESS the supply voltage to the receiver, (i.e. the BEC or battery) is not adequately filtered and spikes can get to the internal circuitry of the receiver itself, or the receiver itself is faulty.

There are utube videos to demonstrate how to set the smartsafe and it will also be mentioned in your transmitter manual BUT the receiver MUST support what you try to do.

Whereas I use smartsafe settings for all radio protocols I use and everything including the micros I fly, there is still another danger. If you are flying stabilised planes that are fast or can glide a long way it is advised to add a little rudder deflection to the failsafe settings so that the plane will circle when the transmit signal is lost as this stops the plane from travelling to the horizon or beyond AND as the plane is circling there is time and enough change in receiver antenna attitude for the transmitter signal or control to be regained and for you to then do a proper and hopefully safe landing.

I hope that the explanation helps!

Have fun!
 

TheFlyingBrit

Legendary member
#10
Smartsafe is a version of Failsafe BUT it only sets the throttle channel, Hopefully to minimum. Using smartsafe it is safe to power up the receiver first or only and the throttle will NOT be activated and the receiver will not complete its boot up because it needs the throttle information from its bound transmitter to do so.
I have tested the same operation on all other brands of digital radio I have used and it works the same on all radios as it is a technological feature, (the power up response of the receiver that is).

With Spektrum however the method of setting faisafe is NOT menu driven as you are required to hold the controls in the position you wish to be used as the failsafe settings whilst the receiver is bound.

Secondly the actual version of failsafe you will set is dependant upon on how you use the bind plug on the receiver. Leave it in for ordinary failsafe and quickly remove it after the receiver is placed in bind mode for Smartsafe.

Now here is the kicker. Not all DSMX receivers support both versions of failsafe and you can only find out what is supported by the receiver in the RECEIVER manual. If you try to use a version of failsafe that is not supported you may get an incorrect failsafe setup or none at all.

Spektrum receivers will not enter bind mode if the receiver is powered up first UNLESS the supply voltage to the receiver, (i.e. the BEC or battery) is not adequately filtered and spikes can get to the internal circuitry of the receiver itself, or the receiver itself is faulty.

There are utube videos to demonstrate how to set the smartsafe and it will also be mentioned in your transmitter manual BUT the receiver MUST support what you try to do.

Whereas I use smartsafe settings for all radio protocols I use and everything including the micros I fly, there is still another danger. If you are flying stabilised planes that are fast or can glide a long way it is advised to add a little rudder deflection to the failsafe settings so that the plane will circle when the transmit signal is lost as this stops the plane from travelling to the horizon or beyond AND as the plane is circling there is time and enough change in receiver antenna attitude for the transmitter signal or control to be regained and for you to then do a proper and hopefully safe landing.

I hope that the explanation helps!

Have fun!
An excellent and detailed explanation thanks for taking the time (y)
 

Hai-Lee

Old and Bold RC PILOT
#11
Sorry I forgot one more SPEKTRUM quirk.

On a number of the receivers, (mostly new offerings), it seems that the throttle minimum is detected and set by the receiver on boot up.
It is VERY IMPORTANT to make the throttle kill switch value and the failsafe throttle value to be the same as the throttle stick minimum. This is normally -100. If the kill switch is set for absolute minimum -125 on boot up you will find that when you turn of the kill switch the motor will start to rotate with a throttle value of 25 above minimum and with some sharp props this can cause significant injuries to the unwary.

SPEKTRUM rule of thumb for safe throttle operation is to set failsafe throttle and the kill swith to -100 exactly. DO so and a false moor start will not ever happen.

Have fun!
 

Piotrsko

Master member
#12
The spectrum failsafe motor spin up -125% glitch isn't applicable to my obsolete stuff, but that's definitely a good thing to share with the forum. Thank you once again.

Here there is no requirement to be anything but more popular than the other candidates. Might be a systems design feature, I am unsure of the benefit.
 
#17
I am in a legal battle with a local club that insists that the old analogue radio rules for safety of operation are all that is required for safe operation digital radio equipment. Their idea of safety is to always turn the transmitter on first and to turn off the transmitter only after the receiver battery has been removed.

Anyway the "Safe" club with its rules had an incident, (unsurprisingly), in which a transmitter was accidentally turned off whilst the model was powered up in the pit area. Initially nothing happened, apparently, but a little later the model control surfaces started to move and the motor started to rotate randomly often at high throttle settings.

The club rules require members to always set failsafe BUT they are not expected to test it at all, (simply they cannot due to the tx on first and off last club rules), Well the experts "Investigated" the incident and decided it verified their rule requirement for rx battery to be removed before the tx is turned off. END OF INVESTIGATION!

The stupid part is obviously the issue was either a faulty failsafe setting perhaps combined with a receiver having other issues in itself like contamination, (water ingress or similar). Now consider if the model had flown away when it last flew, (quite possible and a known occurrence at the club), the plane might have come to rest well outside of the flying field, It is in a suburban area with a children's playground sharing a boundary with the field. If the plane landed or crashed where a child could pick it up to play with it and then the plane exhibited the same behaviour, as it exhibited in the pit area, a child could be seriously maimed or injured. In this case the transmitter being still turned on would make zero difference.

The safety message is simple. Use and test failsafe! If your receiver or model act erratically DO NOT FLY IT! Take it back to he workshop and fix it instead.
Use SMARTSAFE and leave the tx off until you need it as it is the only possible legitimate source of a throttle up command.

Just 2 other facts. It was a DSMX setup though it may not have been a genuine spektrum receiver AND the plane was allowed to be used again immediately without any performance, setup checks or any other safety evaluation.

To me it is a genuine case of STUPID. Which is typical of what I have been battling. See definition of STUPID;

Have safe fun!
Oh my gosh. That video perfectly describes the socio-political popular culture we're enduring right now.
 

Bricks

Master member
#18
Smartsafe is a version of Failsafe BUT it only sets the throttle channel, Hopefully to minimum. Using smartsafe it is safe to power up the receiver first or only and the throttle will NOT be activated and the receiver will not complete its boot up because it needs the throttle information from its bound transmitter to do so.
I have tested the same operation on all other brands of digital radio I have used and it works the same on all radios as it is a technological feature, (the power up response of the receiver that is).

With Spektrum however the method of setting faisafe is NOT menu driven as you are required to hold the controls in the position you wish to be used as the failsafe settings whilst the receiver is bound.

Secondly the actual version of failsafe you will set is dependant upon on how you use the bind plug on the receiver. Leave it in for ordinary failsafe and quickly remove it after the receiver is placed in bind mode for Smartsafe.

Now here is the kicker. Not all DSMX receivers support both versions of failsafe and you can only find out what is supported by the receiver in the RECEIVER manual. If you try to use a version of failsafe that is not supported you may get an incorrect failsafe setup or none at all.

Spektrum receivers will not enter bind mode if the receiver is powered up first UNLESS the supply voltage to the receiver, (i.e. the BEC or battery) is not adequately filtered and spikes can get to the internal circuitry of the receiver itself, or the receiver itself is faulty.

There are utube videos to demonstrate how to set the smartsafe and it will also be mentioned in your transmitter manual BUT the receiver MUST support what you try to do.

Whereas I use smartsafe settings for all radio protocols I use and everything including the micros I fly, there is still another danger. If you are flying stabilised planes that are fast or can glide a long way it is advised to add a little rudder deflection to the failsafe settings so that the plane will circle when the transmit signal is lost as this stops the plane from travelling to the horizon or beyond AND as the plane is circling there is time and enough change in receiver antenna attitude for the transmitter signal or control to be regained and for you to then do a proper and hopefully safe landing.

I hope that the explanation helps!

Have fun!

This is absolutely not true the receiver needs to be powered up with the bind plug installed. Then either ( depending on transmitter } hold in the bind button while powering up the radio or go into the menu and select bind.

Or are you stating with the receiver powered up already and inserting the bind plug will not go into bind mode.

I have various DSMX DSM2 ( different manufacture's ) around 80 of them and there is not one that does not failsafe to throttle off and controls hold last position IF i do not set my own failsafe. So I am not understanding some of your comments.

Or I may be confused of what you are saying.
 
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