Do Chinese Spy Balloon's Carry Remote ID?

[CappyAmeric]

I suppose it depends upon whether the Chinese Spy Balloon was manufactured before October 2022 whether it has Standard Remote ID baked in. Perhaps that is the reason the US military is acting like wusses - they think the balloon is being flown for "recreational purposes," and is not required to have a Remote ID module until September 2023.

It is a sad commentary that a communist nation, occasionally hostile to the United States has free-reign over our airspace, but US citizens are told by our vaunted FAA that they can't fly toys in their backyard unless they follow a bunch of their rules.

 

[LitterBug]

Dunno, but aren't we still under "open Skies". Which allows overflights, or has that long since gone by the way side?

 

[CappyAmeric]

Dunno, but aren't we still under "open Skies". Which allows overflights, or has that long since gone by the way side?

Nope. Not since 2020. Regardless, Open Skies did not apply to balloons overflying at 60,000 feet, unannounced. It was for recognized commercial air travel that was always announced. Open Skies was a trade agreement.

While we are on the subject, overflying China even in the days of Open Skies was a like a landmine. 1 mile left or right of course risked huge fines and loss of access to Chinese airports. We had a flight that tried to deviate a few miles for a severe thunderstorm, and were denied (that simply does not happen elsewhere). The Chinese controllers drove it through heavy hail and severe turbulence. Passengers were injured, and our B787 was severely damaged and had to make an emergency landing in Beijing - where it sat for weeks while getting repaired.

 

[LitterBug]

It is pretty silly that "technically" we can't even fly under the tree line on our own property. This whole thing is just so the big tech companies can fly their drones wherever and whenever they want to with no recourse.

#$#&#& the hobby peeps that have been playing nice all along and developed the technologies that they are now using.

>Sigh<

 

[LitterBug]

Might be fun to tag the balloon with an airtag or ADSB unit so everyone can easily track it.

 

[Mr NCT]

So I guess the lesson is: If you want to fly with impunity make your plane really big, fly really high and put Chinese characters on it? Or maybe their version of the FAA has declared all of North America a FRIA. How about submitting a FRIA for a 50 mile radius of 39.9042° N, 116.4074° E?

 

[SlingShot]

Let's see what happens. If it were me, I'd want to capture it intact If at all possible.

 

[Merv]

I hope they have passed the TRUST exam.

 

[MacClarkNC]

No political sabre-rattling, no con man bravado, no blowhard armchair experts needed. Just speak softly, carry a big stick and get the job done. Got er did.

 

[CappyAmeric]

No political sabre-rattling, no con man bravado, no blowhard armchair experts needed. Just speak softly, carry a big stick and get the job done. Got er did.

LOL, but only after it spent 3 days scooping all cell and wi-fi data across a wide swath (which is why they use airships - satellites cannot do that).

 

[LitterBug]

They don't need balloons for that. TIK TOK FTW!

 

[hankflies03]

i don't think it was being flown for commercial purposes... I think they were flying it for recreation.
but NOT line of sight!

 

[Piotrsko]

Y'all realize the dropping any weight from above 60,000 msl is going to make a pretty big hole when it hits and pretty much explosively disassemble what ever control electronics are contained? Even in Minot, ND. OR Cheyenne Wy. Minuteman was my ASFC in the airforce, with the doors shut, not much to see except for containment fence, some radar antennas and this 200 ton concrete silo door. Ditto for the airbase we belonged to. Can see some of the bombers on the ready line but you can see those from outside the fence on the ground. Since there ain't any really large bodies of water handy and you cant precision drop this after hitting it with a missile, sounded to me like somebody did the prudent thing waiting for it to get to the sea. Best thing I beard was the govenor of S Carolina telling the yahoos it was too high to hit with their hunting rifles.

 

[CappyAmeric]

Y'all realize the dropping any weight from above 60,000 msl is going to make a pretty big hole when it hits and pretty much explosively disassemble what ever control electronics are contained? Even in Minot, ND. OR Cheyenne Wy. Minuteman was my ASFC in the airforce, with the doors shut, not much to see except for containment fence, some radar antennas and this 200 ton concrete silo door. Ditto for the airbase we belonged to. Can see some of the bombers on the ready line but you can see those from outside the fence on the ground. Since there ain't any really large bodies of water handy and you cant precision drop this after hitting it with a missile, sounded to me like somebody did the prudent thing waiting for it to get to the sea. Best thing I beard was the govenor of S Carolina telling the yahoos it was too high to hit with their hunting rifles.

Photography is not the main reason for near earth surveillance platforms in the days of satellites (the US does it too, just not to poke anyone’s eye). It is about two things, challenging sovereignty and grabbing cell/Wi-Fi. People, not facilities. Misslemen at Malstrom, Minot, F.E. Warren AFB, and airmen at Whiteman AFB are NOT using Tik Tok on their phones. The Chinese spent considerable funds and political risk for a very good reason - because other means were not sufficient to track PEOPLE. That is what the US uses near earth ISR for.

BTW, from almost any altitude, terminal velocity is the same… and water is like concrete. So the “it’s safer over water” is a weak excuse - and the proof is they didn’t shoot it down over the Aleutians.

As for Southern boys and our guns: we know that no rifle can reach 11 miles straight up - even if our Governors assume we don't.

 

[MacClarkNC]

"grabbing cell/Wi-Fi”, this is the most interesting declaration to me. What type of wi-fi are they able to reach? And I know ATG networks have used cell service so folks can play a little on the internet during flight since regular cell towers don't broadcast toward the heavens, but I would hope the encryption would help in that manner. Are we passing unencrypted national security data over cell services?

 

[CappyAmeric]

Wi-Fi go and Blue Tooth go much further than we use in most domestic uses. Especially line of sight. Example: DJI drones which use Wi-Fi and Blue Tooth out to many miles. That is what Remote ID trackers are using too. Even unclassified operations of our own ISR reveals how we use loitering aircraft outside 12nm borders scooping up cell and Wi-Fi data.

A byproduct of the Chinese Spy airship escapade is illustrating how silly Remote ID is in terms of protecting the homeland. "Remote ID? They put a UAS across our entire country at 60,000 feet and YOU JUST LET THEM DO IT.

 

[SlingShot]

BTW, from almost any altitude, terminal velocity is the same… and water is like concrete. So the “it’s safer over water” is a weak excuse - and the proof is they didn’t shoot it down over the Aleutians.

Not so. Terminal velocity is a function of mass and wind resistance and is different for different objects. The famous penny thrown from the Empire State Building would be essentially harmless. The remnants of the balloon would also act as a streamer, thus slowing its descent.

Water is not "like concrete". That is a gross overstatement. It's water, and while a soft landing was improbable, it was a lot softer than if it had hit land or concrete.

During the balloon's free passage, it was constantly monitored by ELINT planes. Bank on it. There is some publicly available data supporting this. Here.

 

[quorneng]

I am sure the only reason they shot it down over water was it would significantly improve the chances of finding out exactly what surveillance equipment it carried.
I note Biden commented they did so within the 12 mile limit so the remains would be within US territorial limits.

 

[CappyAmeric]

I am sure the only reason they shot it down over water was it would significantly improve the chances of finding out exactly what surveillance equipment it carried.
I note Biden commented they did so within the 12 mile limit so the remains would be within US territorial limits.

LOL. You guys want it both ways. "No big deal. Why use a balloon? They have satellites. Leave it alone" - "Oh, and we need to shoot it down over water so we can see what's in it."

 

[CappyAmeric]

Not so. Terminal velocity is a function of mass and wind resistance and is different for different objects. The famous penny thrown from the Empire State Building would be essentially harmless. The remnants of the balloon would also act as a streamer, thus slowing its descent.

We weren't talking about different objects. We were talking about the same object from different altitudes, falling to the earth. The terminal velocity at the surface would have been the same from 40,000 feet as 60,000 feet, because the volume remains the same, and the drag increases as it descends through denser air.