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ESC Question

#1
Hello Everyone,
I've got a few post on here for a FT Guinea Pig that I've been crashing all winter. Upon my last crash, I found that I had smoked a winding on one of my iPower IBM2212q 1000kv motors. Here's where my question comes in. I replaced these 2212s with some No Name 2213 935kv motors (see pic) with no name 20a escs. My iPowers had 20a Simonk escs. I'm experiencing a drastic thrust difference between the two setups. I'm using the same cheap 10x4.7 props on both and with a 3s 2200 the Ipower motors had unlimited vertical and would get away from you with 100% differential thrust. I'm having a hard time getting the 2213s to even attain flight... I don't have a spec sheet for these 2213s but the Emax equivalent has a max thrust of 860g and the iPowers are rated for 850. I don't have either of the turn numbers but I'm assuming one of a few things. Either the generic escs I have don't provide enough amperage to bring the 2213s to full potential, OR these 2213s are WAY over-rated. OR I'm expecting way too much for a 935kv motor to compare with a 1000kv motor...
I've tried different batteries, I've synced my throttle, and I've maxed out my end points for the throttle channel. I am able to get off the ground and make a few turns around the field with a 1300 4s, but I don't really want to smoke these escs or motors so I've been laying off the 14.8...

The only real difference I see between the two setups is the esc wiring (hence why i haven't just swapped the escs between the motors). The iPowers have heavy (maybe 14 ga) power wires and 3.5mm bullet connectors. The 2213s have very thin (18 or even 22ga) with TINY bullet connectors (1.5mm or 2mm). Could this possibly be part of the problem with these 2213s? Thing is, if the wiring were causing a bottleneck, I would assume the wires would get warm when in operation. Neither the wiring or the escs get warm whatsoever.


Anyway, I've rambled enough. If anyone has any ideas I'd greatly appreciate hearing about it. Thank you! s-l1600.jpg
 

Wildthing

Well-known member
#2
Try your good esc with the motor and see what happens.

Also with the motors and what you don't see are the magnets and the windings inside which can make a world of difference in power even though they are the same size. Advertised specs are not always truthful ;)
 

ElectriSean

Eternal Student
Mentor
#3
ESC's don't exactly 'provide' current, the motor draws what it needs. If it draws more than the ESC can handle, it will get hot and eventually fail. I imagine your motors are just over-rated, which isn't uncommon.
 
#5
Merv, Yes and No. I THOUGHT I had calibrated the escs, as I said, I don't have any documentation and I was cutting the process short before it would complete. At first did the typical full throttle power on, two wake beeps, pause, one max throttle beep, moved throttle to min, one min throttle beep, then... nothing. So I powered it down and fired it back up, it didn't make any difference in the throttle end points so I assumed (yeah I know) that the escs were programmed accordingly. So I did some reading and tried a few different methods (I needed to wait for another acknowledge beep) and lo and behold the 2213s woke up. They're still don't compare to the 2212s but 65 kv times 11 would be slightly slower.
Excuse my grammar ElectriSean, I meant to say "Either these ESCs aren't providing full potential to the motor" which would be voltage not amperage. Good eye, I'll try to be more accurate with my descriptions in the future.

Thanks for all the input, I think I've got the most out of these black cans that I'm ever gonna. I'm still kicking around the idea of just buying a pair of decent ESCs just to see if there is a difference. I didn't want to try my iPower escs as they're already wired for the 2212s. I wouldn't mind rewiring if it were to be permanent. Just too much hassle for a test.

Of course now I'm on the hunt for a 1000g thrust setup with either a 9050 or a 10.47.... Good thing its payday week...
 

FDS

Well-known member
#6
Also the real Kv of the motors may not be 950, you could be flying at 800 tops. I have found some cheaper ESC’s to have very bad throttle curves, I have stopped buying the cheapo ones now to try and keep some consistency. I threw two out that were awful. Couldn’t be bothered to reprogram them!
 

SlingShot

Maneuvering With Purpose
#7
Regarding your end points and 100% differential: i recently had a near miss with a setup like that.

When I applied a little rudder while at full throttle, the effected motor, rather than speed up or maintain its speed, cut out completely. The plane immediately entered reverse direction "crazy mode" and tried to flat spin.

Probably not what you experienced, but it IS something to be aware of.
 
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#8
I'm assuming that as well. I don't know enough about iPower but it looks like they may have been a decent motor at one time. That being said, the kv rating for them is probably more accurate than these No Names. This is my first experience with a generic ESC (at least so generic I couldn't find documentation) and I'm of the same mindset FDS. Might just cut the wires and toss these guys in a junk drawer later on...
 
#9
SlingShot, I know exactly what you mean with the diff thrust. When my motor died I lost almost all left yaw, so when I turned to the right the bad motor locked completely (has a bad upper bearing). Needless to say she did an about-face on me real fast lol.
 

FDS

Well-known member
#10
If you can find documentation on the ESC’s it might just be a programming thing. I now only use two types of ESC that I can get easily and I know work. Neither are more than $15 each, with a Bec.
 
#11
I'm still digging around on them. I did pick up a 10.00 jrelesc program card from amazon today. Might get a little farther with them that way. I've pulled the skin off one of these ESCs hoping I'd find some number of some kind, but I didn't find anything whatsoever. All I do know is they are "Stock from a size 500 Quadcopter".
 
#13
Guess worst case I can always build that RC desktop fan I've always wanted lol. Is there anyway you can tell what an esc is by it's design? Just an example, I see most Siomonk escs have 1 or 2 capacitors in the power circuit and BlHeli tends to be very small... This is just speculation... If there's no way to tell then I'll just have to wing it with this program card. Thanks again!
 

Kananga

Active member
#14
Is the motor spinning the correct direction as labelled on the can?
If it isn't you may need to swap your wires and prop and see if it changes.

The other thing is Ive suspected for a long time that cheapo motors have a poor if any timing set up, you might not be able to alter it on those motors but if not you should be able to on the escs.

A good place to check esc models is the blheli pages, they have pictures of most escs with details what to flash on them etc.
 

FDS

Well-known member
#15
I have found a brand name that works for me, the Turnigy ones are fairly reliable, as are Skywalker ones. Those are all pre set up for fixed wing. SimonK is a firmware loaded on the ESC, it’s designed for quads so doesn’t have over discharge protection for example.
 
#17
I've got two cans running both directions (cc and ccw). Neither were labeled with ANYTHING but they both perform the same. I'm running them according to the thread (ccw on the right hand thread). I may swap em around just to see what happens tonight (raining here anyways...) I've also ordered some 9050s to see if they might perform a little better than these cheap 10x4.7s.
Kananga, that's awesome! Thanks for the info!
 

Kananga

Active member
#18
If you're running right to the thread direction you'll be running the right way.

The connectors shouldn't be limiting your escs but I would try to get away from using bullet connectors at all and would solder as many joints as possible.

It sounds software related.
 
#19
Ok, I'm done with these No Names... Took her out last night and again she could barely keep her butt off the ground. First video shows her on 3s and the second on 4s. Did get some good videos but even on 4s you can see how gutless she is. I was going to swap motors last night but for once we didn't have ANY wind... so we flew till dark. I'll get em swapped out this weekend and save these 2213s for an ft cruiser.