Transitioning To A Serious Quad

[Glenfilthie]

Question for the old hands:

What's it like to transition from a starter to one of the more serious homebuilds? Right now I am playing with a Dromida Ominus but that is just a toy for me to try and build the coordination to fly a more serious homebuilt. Do you think the transition from one of these to a bigger machine will be difficult?

Also...I have tried to fly this little buzzer outside but the merest breeze seems to be too much for it. I will have it at full speed and it can barely buck a mild head-on breeze. What kind of winds does it take to limit your flying of the big multirotors?

Your two cents, as always, is sincerely appreciated!

Cheers,

Filthie

 

[cranialrectosis]

Welcome to the party, Filthie!

The wider and heavier (to an extent) the copter is, the more stable. I can make one of my 250mm quads handle 15mph wind by putting a 2200mAh on it to add ballast.

It is easier to fly somewhere than to try to hover in one place. This is more so with wind. The ballast gives you momentum but has some downsides.

I started with a Zyma X1 and have since built (and sometimes rebuilt 4-5 times) 7 homemade copters. Starting out with the toy is a GREAT way to learn. You got that part right.

The FliteTest Electrohub and Knuckle H quads are a good place to learn. They are inexpensive and easy to assemble and repair. This is key because you will crash and you will break your copter. It also makes them easy to modify. I cut my Knuckler down to 300mm. It was my first mini.

The larger the copter the more it will damage and the more damage it will take in a crash. Learning light is the way to go. Keep your first homemade copter under 800 grams if you can.

Check out Altitude Hobbies electronics packages for a simple way to start. These aren't the cheapest, but Suppo motors can take a beating as can Ipeaka ESCs.

Read the stickies at the top of the multirotors section in this forum. Read a few build threads and start your own newbie build thread. As you progress take pictures and post them. If you run into trouble, you can get help. When you fly, shoot some video and we will all cheer with you!

 

[joshuabardwell]

If you have experience flying in acro/rate mode on a smaller "toy" quad, then I would recommend seriously considering a 250-class mini-quad as your first "serious" quad. Here's why: as Cranialrectosis points out, the heavier the quad, the more it breaks in a crash. Those little mini-quads are darn near indestructible, except for busted props. The other thing is that everyone who flies them seems to say that they're hands-down more fun than anything else. So chances are you're going to end up flying one anyway. The only exception I think I would make is if you intend to go more than "flying camera platform" direction, for filmmaking and stuff. In that case, a larger quad is more stable, has longer flight times, more cargo capacity, and so forth. But if fun FPV flying is your game, a mini quad is the way to go.

I would suggest looking at the DIY kit from miniquadbros.com. The parts are all at least decent. You are going to have a hard time buying those parts separately for cheaper, especially considering shipping from different places. It seems to me to be the no-brainer choice for someone wanting to dip their toes into the mini quad world without breaking the bank.

 

[Glenfilthie]

Hmpfffff! Seems I am already off on the wrong foot - I bought one of those Bat Bone V Tail quads thinking that I can easily make replacement booms here and possible jury rig the 40 degree rear engine mounts. I figured I would trace the Bat Bone and make a template so that I could re-create a heavier one if needed.

I never really considered the minis because they look to me (as an amateur not knowing what he's looking at) - like the toys that I am flying now...

 

[joshuabardwell]

If you already have a Batbone, don't stress about it. Have a great time flying it! But the 250's are definitely not toys. The smaller quads are lighter, and so they don't break as easily in a crash. They have less mass, so they are more nimble and translate power to speed more effectively.

 

[cranialrectosis]

I love my BatBone. Build it full size and enjoy the stability. When you are ready to go smaller and a little less stable, cut the booms down so you have a 320mm copter and re-learn how to fly.

The FT kits are just awesome that way. You build them, crash them, break them and rebuild them better and better and better each time.

 

[makattack]

I'll pipe in an agree with all the advice these guys have given here.

This was my progression:

Jul 2014: Bought a nanoqx and started flying quads for the first time before going to FTFF2014
Jul 2014: While at FTFF2014, bought an electrohub tricopter setup with camera tray
Nov 2014: After flying season wound down, I took the Thanksgiving break (had a whole week off) to build my electrohub while flying the nanoqx more during building breaks.
Dec 2014: After flying the electrohub tricopter more and getting bolder, bought a HK FPV250 frame and flight electronics.
This weekend: just finished assembling most of the main parts and start bench testing.

My observations after all this:

1) I'm glad I followed that progression. Those light, toy MR's are great for learning and are nearly indestructible. They are also cheap.
2) The electrohub sure did make for an easy and quick build. Sure bigger 450 class MR's can be intimidating for a newbie, but the larger components are easier to deal with. The trickiest soldering for me was desoldering the ESC motor wires. It flew stable and practically hands off, which surprised me after flying the NanoQX in rate/acro mode, which I find hard to get the nano back to a stable hover after aggressive maneuvering. Whenb I first flew in rate/acro mode on the MultiWii with the tricopter, I thought I was in full level mode.
3) After spending ALL DAY yesterday building the 250/mini quad -- it's taken me longer and more effort to get that setup than the electrohub. I didn't buy a power distribution board, as I'm pretty new to HobbyKing and this was my first major purchase from them. Their website was frankly overwhelming, and I ended up not ordering everything I needed and also wrong parts. I ended up with 20A slim afro ESC's which don't have BEC's, so I needed a 5V regulator (using a cheap pololu buck regulator) so there was a lot of soldering for me to do. Don't estimate the time required to cut wires, strip and tin them, solder header pins, etc.

Anyway, the short of it is this, based on my experience: the electrohub and other flitetest kits like the batbone, knuckle, etc is a great way for a beginner who wants to try building their own. The size actually makes it easier to build in my opinion. The power distribution board makes it even easier and faster.

The small quads requires a bit more technical ability to build, in my opinion, because things are smaller, weight is more of a concern -- I'm worried my wire and bullets based power harness is a bit heavy, and I get the feeling it'll be more like flying the nanoQX in rate/acro mode.

Enjoy the learning process with the Batbone V Tail! I think you'll love it!

 

[joshuabardwell]

The electrohub sure did make for an easy and quick build. Sure bigger 450 class MR's can be intimidating for a newbie, but the larger components are easier to deal with.

Sometimes I kind of half-wish that I had gone straight to a 250-class mini instead of building the Electrohub first, but I do admit that this is a big advantage. Working on something as big as the Electrohub is a good experience for somebody who doesn't yet know what all the pieces are and how they go together. You get a lot more flexibility with a larger quad, whereas a mini kind of has to fit within a narrower template. It's easy for me to forget all the stuff I didn't know at the beginning--all the iterations I went through to eventually get where my Electrohub is now, and all the things I learned along the way. If I had gone straight to a 250, there is some chance I would have gotten frustrated because, in some sense, there are fewer "right" ways to build a mini, and more "wrong" ways. Whereas with the Electrohub (or the Batbone or what-have-you) you can pretty much get it into the air no matter how much else you mess up, as long as the props are on the right way and the motors are plugged in right.

 

[tubasteve]

My first build, bigger was a 500 h-quad, that sucked because I designed my own flight board and square frames are easier to do calculations for. I started with a arduino mega, 10 dof sensor and for less cables when doing "pid" tuning, xbee. I used turnigy 30a esc, 940 kv turnigy as well that came with matched plastic props. 3300mah 3s battery and turnigy 9x radio with fr-sky radio set.

It took 2 months to get is in the air but had issues with vibration effecting the flight control. I then also started integrating gps on my own with nema protocol. <....bummed that apm/kk boards are out of the box almost ready

By may or June I had a unit I knew inside and out that could fly in stable mode and implemented a servo gimbal.

I tell you this as I wanted a complete understanding of the way it works inside and out. Sure I spent more time building than flying, but now can diag issues I have on other units. I have built close to 30 multirotors from tri-to octo.

Best advise, power to weight. Just like a car... a bulb that burns twice as bright burns half as long.

Biggest draw back, I started with a small motors vs the lift and battery size.

Video shows w/of gps. I used the 500 arms as landing gear extentions

 

[Ocean]

My first multi was a DW Tricopter v2.5 and to be perfectly honest it flew terribly. But in fairness my building skills were probably very poor. My next was a FPV250 from hobbyking, it flew amazingly on the kk2.1 with no tuning, I put in a Naze32 and flew even better. I personally recommend getting a 250 size quad as your first proper one. They are by far the most fun to fly and assembly is easy. Since you already have bought a bat bone, a quad might be a nice addition to the hanger