To HAM or not to HAM?

[Axle Jack]

Go for your ham license! Not just because of the benefits to your RC hobby, but because its also a great hobby. There's a lot of cross over between the two. A love of home construction, electronics and technology. Ham radio is a very deep and many faceted hobby and you might find some aspects of it very interesting.

BUT. There are a few things to remember. I cant speak for US law, but I hold an unrestricted ham license in the United Kingdom and Australia. I should imagine the following will be similar in other countries, so check first!

Ham radio has different classes of license which have different frequencies and power levels permitted. The entry level license most likely will not allow you to operate on 5.8Ghz. In the UK and Aus its called the foundation license and it does not allow transmission above 440MHz. You'll need to study and pass the more advanced license exam to legally use 200mW on 5.8Ghz.

Ham radio was never really intended to allow model planes to transmit video. Check your countries rules on remote operation. Your country may not allow a remotely controlled transmitter.

Ham radio transmissions are legally required to identify themselves with the station callsign. FPV transmitters do not do this. I have not figured out a way round this yet. But some other smart guy might.

Many frequencies used by RC pilots just happen to overlap with ham bands. 433Mhz, 2.4, 5.8Ghz etc. But these ham frequency bands have band plans where certain frequencies are used for certain types of operation. For example, on 433Mhz, many countries have hill top repeater stations. These can wipe out your signal or receive interference from your transmitter. Check what is happening on the amateur bands local to you and what frequencies you intend to use to check your transmissions don't conflict. Interfering with other stations will at best make you unpopular, at worst it'll result in the loss of a model.

Which brings me to- on ham radio you are required to listen on the frequency you intend to use before transmitting. To ensure you don't interfere with ham radio traffic already using that frequency. Do you do that before switching on your RC gear? No neither do I

The ham license was not really intended for FPV. If you get your ham license you will be able to legally buy high powered equipment and will most likely get a pat on the back for your efforts to remain legal. But you wont really be 100% with the ham radio operating conditions.

On a ham radio forum I visit occasionally has talk of "rogue quadcopter operators with unapproved transmitters on our bands" (shock horror gasp). So non-RC sympathetic hams will not consider FPV within the spirit of ham radio.

I'm not trying to put anyone off getting that ticket. But the idea that being a ham will solve everything is definitely not the case. Get informed before committing.

 

[marc60]

Ham radio transmissions are legally required to identify themselves with the station callsign. FPV transmitters do not do this. I have not figured out a way round this yet. But some other smart guy might.

The EzOSD from immersion RC has a callsign that you can edit!. It is visible in the video
grts Marc

 

[Craftydan]

Ham radio was never really intended to allow model planes to transmit video. Check your countries rules on remote operation. Your country may not allow a remotely controlled transmitter.

HAM radio was never "intended" for MANY of the HAM sports that are commonplace today . . . and amateur Video transmissions is a commonplace practice, but the typical HAM thinks camcorder-in-a-shack for the input. The difference is all context.

Ham radio transmissions are legally required to identify themselves with the station callsign. FPV transmitters do not do this. I have not figured out a way round this yet. But some other smart guy might.

Not entirely true -- RC control gear can have the operator sign affixed to the transmitter, even if it doesn't transmit the callsign. This does not, however cover a typical video transmission, however it could be argued that it is a return path closed loop transmission required for control, therefore it IS a control signal.

That being said, YOU are the operator. A CW key doesn't transmit a call sign automatically, the law-abiding operator must key it in. If you want to comply with the stricter interpretation of the rules, you need to ensure it's encoded on the feed -- put a sign in view of the camera as you power on, put a morse blip on your audio feed or insert it into your OSD. just because the transmitter doesn't do it automatically, doesn't mean you don't have the obligation to ensure it's done, nor that's it's even difficult.

Which brings me to- on ham radio you are required to listen on the frequency you intend to use before transmitting. To ensure you don't interfere with ham radio traffic already using that frequency. Do you do that before switching on your RC gear? No neither do I

WHY NOT?!?!?

Yes. I do. EVERY TIME.

Before I turn on the VTX, I turn on the VRX. ALWAYS. If there's interference/signal on the channel, I don't care what the source is, I don't want to step on it OR be stepped on. On to the next clear channel! This is not just a good practice for being a good neighbor and HAM, it's a good safety practice too!

The ham license was not really intended for FPV. If you get your ham license you will be able to legally buy high powered equipment and will most likely get a pat on the back for your efforts to remain legal. But you wont really be 100% with the ham radio operating conditions.

Says who? Ham radio operation conditions, meaning what? someone's basement with a 100' antenna tower transmitting to stations a continent away?

I'm afraid you and many other HAMs have a narrow view of what HAM is.

On a ham radio forum I visit occasionally has talk of "rogue quadcopter operators with unapproved transmitters on our bands" (shock horror gasp). So non-RC sympathetic hams will not consider FPV within the spirit of ham radio.

And we have pilots who insist if it's not "a scale model of something", or "run by fuel" or "made from balsa", then it's not a model airplane.

These people have their art and clearly should be respected for their skills, but this attitude will kill ANY hobby within a generation. Free flight is just starting to recover popularity again from this narrow viewpoint. Control line is starting to recover as well, and I hope they do!

I will not respect what they consider in the "spirit" of HAM, simply because it wasn't the same "spirit" their coveted niches were allowed to form, because back in the day, those niches weren't "the way it is done".

I'm not trying to put anyone off getting that ticket. But the idea that being a ham will solve everything is definitely not the case. Get informed before committing.

BAH!!!

Get informed! period!

Having a meaningless piece of paper solves NOTHING. Never did.

If you know not to touch a hot stove but do it anyways, you deserve the burn. If you get a fine from the FCC for illegally interfering, having a license actually makes it worse.

Doing what you learned to get that piece of paper is the part that solves problems.

 

[Barron.Barnett]

CD you nailed that quite well.

I actually had a group of HAMs that refused to participate in a public service event to provide safety communications during a race. Why? Because they felt it fell outside of the realm of HAM radio. Largely because they weren't sitting in a shack. Instead you were on a jet boat up a canyon with no other methods of communication.

I worked the event, LE and Fire positioned themselves near the safety boats and we also had HAMs on LE and Fire in other places. Why? Because HAMs had effective communication where LE and fire did not.

Lastly:

Which brings me to- on ham radio you are required to listen on the frequency you intend to use before transmitting. To ensure you don't interfere with ham radio traffic already using that frequency. Do you do that before switching on your RC gear? No neither do I

This tells me everything I need to know about you. That is wrong, so wrong it isn't even funny. I guess you also show up at fields with an old 72 MHz radio and just flip it on to watch planes crash into the ground. That is negligent and willful interference, showing a complete lack of respect for everyone in either hobby.

It is behavior such as that which causes threads in HAM radio forums of which you complain about. The key to bringing people around is education, not stomping on them causing problems.

 

[Axle Jack]

Says who? Ham radio operation conditions, meaning what? someone's basement with a 100' antenna tower transmitting to stations a continent away?

operating conditions = the rules which attach to the ham license and which must be adhered to.

Do you listen on an audio receiver to check the band is clear before switching on your 2.4GHz transmitter? I don't. and I don't think anyone ever does.

I think I may have soiled hallowed ground by suggesting that the ham radio license was not custom built to service the RC community. All I am saying is check the fine print and know the rules for both disciplines.

I have been asked "what output power is that?" at clubs. And my reply had been, "its OK I hold an amateur radio license" knowing that the equipment I had was not strictly covered by the amateur operating conditions. But by flashing the "I'm a ham" line it keeps everyone happy they assume I know what I'm doing. But if someone from the communications authority had questioned me, I'd have got a warning and told to get my operations within the rules or my license would be at risk.

Now I will hand over to the thousands of people who want to write replies with the words YOU ARE WRONG included and pick faults with hams as we are obviously bad people who deserve no respect.

 

[Craftydan]

operating conditions = the rules which attach to the ham license and which must be adhered to.

Do you listen on an audio receiver to check the band is clear before switching on your 2.4GHz transmitter? I don't. and I don't think anyone ever does.

Do you check on a SpecAn if there is any cell traffic in the area before you turn on your cell phone? Under your logic, why not???

Because it's a device certified to be used without license. Here in the US it's a Part-15 device, governed as devices not requiring licenses, NOT a Part-97, governing the use of amateur radio.

ALL 2.4GHz RC transmitters in the US as consumer grade gear fall under the part-15 provision NOT part-97. Just because I have a HAM license and I speak on a cell phone does not mean I have to precede with a callsign and repeat at regular intervals.

Different devices mean different rules. Perhaps you should refresh your knowledge -- Armature radio laws have subtle differences, but some fundamental concepts like these cross boarders.

I think I may have soiled hallowed ground by suggesting that the ham radio license was not custom built to service the RC community. All I am saying is check the fine print and know the rules for both disciplines.

But that's not what you said.

I never said the HAM rules were custom built for the RC community -- read them yourself and you'll see some most definitely are -- but you claim, twice "Ham radio was never really intended . . . " and once " But you wont really be 100% with the ham radio operating conditions."

My response isn't that the world of amateur radio belongs to the RC community, but that a HAM claiming it has no place in letter of law or spirit is someone who's defined their entire hobby as their niche alone. Again, that's death to any hobby, and while the person should be respected, the attitude deserves no respect.

I have been asked "what output power is that?" at clubs. And my reply had been, "its OK I hold an amateur radio license" knowing that the equipment I had was not strictly covered by the amateur operating conditions. But by flashing the "I'm a ham" line it keeps everyone happy they assume I know what I'm doing. But if someone from the communications authority had questioned me, I'd have got a warning and told to get my operations within the rules or my license would be at risk.

And again, YOU are the operator. Now YOU are claiming you're acting outside the provisions of your license, and using the ignorance of people around you to continue operation . . . are YOU being a good role model?

YOU know better, so WHY aren't YOU doing what you know is right?

Again, that piece of paper isn't worth ANYTHING if you don't do the things you learned to get that paper. Period.

Now I will hand over to the thousands of people who want to write replies with the words YOU ARE WRONG included and pick faults with hams as we are obviously bad people who deserve no respect.

I know MANY HAMS who are not only competent operators they deserve respect for both their skill and their attitudes. They not only understand the rules, they obey them and encourage others to explore their hobby in new and interesting ways while staying within the rules.

I have yet to see you give a convincing argument as to why that piece of paper you claim to have has earned you the right to lump yourself in with them.

 

[makattack]

Now I will hand over to the thousands of people who want to write replies with the words YOU ARE WRONG included and pick faults with hams as we are obviously bad people who deserve no respect.

I don't think that's the case in this post. These are all fellow ham enthusiasts who are writing, but we're not necessarily just saying you are wrong. I just think as you mentioned, your case in the UK is unique, as are those on the continent (EU) and those in NA or ANZAC, SA, et al... sure having an amateur license doesn't give you a blanket ability to install a high power VTX on your airframes and go flying anywhere.

I think people have problems with the blanket statements made in that post. Obviously, there many ways ham and RC go hand in hand, and your message implies that to not be the case -- even if you were focusing specifically on FPV.

Case in point (yes, all anecdotal): a senior member of my club (Charles River RC) is a voluntee examiner (VE) and on my first day at the field last Summer, I saw this gentleman walking around with a portable UHF/multiband transceiver hooked to his belt while flying his sailplane. After he landed, I introduced myself as a new member and fellow ham, and he proceeded to show me his low-power UHF beacon he installed on his sailplane and how he can still use his handheld with an omnidirectional antenna to find/track the beacon.

 

[Barron.Barnett]

Now I will hand over to the thousands of people who want to write replies with the words YOU ARE WRONG included and pick faults with hams as we are obviously bad people who deserve no respect.

Now while most HAMs are the opposite of what you describe. Your actions and behavior are showing why you're not being treated with respect. You are acting in a manner that is dishonest to both of those communities and not doing proper due diligence of understanding the areas in which you operate, the physics and protocols of communication involved, and how your actions can impact others.

As CD noted there's a huge difference between Part 15 and Part 97 and trying to compare a 2.4 GHz SS transmitter to a 5.8GHz video transmitter or any 97 radio is misleading and false. It also exhibits a serious lack of understanding of the fundamentals of how things work.

The biggest clue that you're being dishonest is that you use your HAM qualification to dismiss someone from asking more questions knowing you're not operating within the boundaries. You use your qualifications though to make it seem as if you're 100% legit even though you're not. You could just answer the question, explain what you've done to make yourself legal under your HAM license and why you're ok for operation. You took an opportunity to educate and used it as a method to close someone out. Mainly because you haven't taken the time to learn your equipment or find a way to make yourself legal.

Many of the HAMs I regularly deal with will sit down with the rules and what we're trying to do and figure out how to put it within the rules. It actually isn't too terribly difficult, it just takes effort and makes sure you've spent some time thinking ahead to prevent problems. There are only a few hard rules, which are fairly simple and make sense. Everything else is geared towards priorities and coexistence with others.