Can ESC's forget?

[PsyBorg]

Hello peoples.
Tis I needing input and help this time instead of me droning on about trying to solve others issues. Here is your chance for payback for me annoying you all.

I have an issue that has been getting worse over time and seems to have me chasing ghosts. I have one motor on my Alien
(Lumenier 2350kv) run by a kiss 24 a race edition esc. The last few times I have gone out to fly it randomly decides if it wants to work or not. This has gone beyond amusing as it has now killed a third day of flight on the few nice days I get this early in the year.

The first time it happened I had only walked out back to the play area to fly. I turn on my radio, power up the quad, and everything seems to boot properly. ( I did not notice this the first few times) A few seconds later the esc will beep and go into what I think is an error state. This will not allow the motor to arm. It is getting power as there is still resistance in the motor when powered like the others. It just won't spin.

The first time it happened I took it back home and opened up the frame to start troubleshooting. When the frame was open the motor worked fine. I thought bad wire or solder joint so I un-taped the esc cut open the shrink tube and proceeded to check the circuit. Nothing looked obvious and I rang it out with a meter to be sure the wires were fine even moving them around checking for breaks inside the covering. Found nothing. Put it all back together and it flew normally for several sessions.

Walk all the way up to the park a few weeks ago on the random good day and the same thing happens. Since I was all the way out there I decided that I would open the frame with it powered up and wiggle things to see if that changed status. No dice. I got distracted trying to think of what could be the issue and had left it plugged in. Once the inactivity timer kicked in to where the esc's are set to beep for lost model the esc rebooted and started to work normal again. Un plugged it put it back together again and flew a few packs.

Went out again a few days later and the same thing happened. When fiddling around with it arming and disarming in various flight modes it woke back up without having to wait til it timed out. Again when I got back home I opened it all up again and went thru it trying to find anything. There is not even a nick on the esc like it took a blade strike or anything.

I am totally baffled and I do not want to change out parts until I know what the issue is. This is where your experiences come into play hoping some one else has had this happen and found a definite cause.

Could the motor be the cause some how, Could it be the FC? I am totally baffled on this one. Can the firmware somehow get corrupted like memory in computers do at times? Will a reflashing more likely help or cause more issues.

This is the last time I flew right after having this issue and being able to clear it while arming in a different mode so I KNOW it all works great (when it WANTS to)

 

[makattack]

I've seen something similar, but different with a four in one esc I was upgrading firmware for. The escs didn't come with a blheli bootloader, so I had to flash with the c2/four in one interface (I know, confusing eh? Flashing a four escs on one pcb individually via the programming pins using the four functions in one interface arduino program) and got a bad flash on one of them. It mostly worked, but was intermittent and would go into the lost model/ inactivity beep mode constantly. Since the bootloader was installed, I just reinstalled/ flashed the same software and saved the settings to fix it. You might try just resaving the configuration first before reflashing, but I don't see the harm in flashing the same software.

 

[PsyBorg]

Oh I am definitely saving my config if / when I get to try anything as this is tuned the best it has ever been. So your problem did go away after you re-flashed with the lost model time out mode? It just seems strange that it worked for months if it was in fact flashed wrong before this issue showed up.

Thank you btw for a fast response mate.

 

[earthsciteach]

From my experience, this is perfectly normal. Random and seemingly inexplicable esc troubles are a normal part of the multirotor experience, so don't sweat it.

Flying multirotors is not about flying. The multirotor hobby is focused on troubleshooting, so don't stress yourself over it. Is it a setting in Beta flight? Or, should you switch back to Clean Flight, which was all the rage 6 months ago? Is it a radio/rx problem? Is it a poor solder joint? Maybe you should soft mount the motors? Perhaps a wire is shorting on the frame? Maybe multiple wires are shorting on the frame? Should you recalibrate the esc's again (and again)? Perhaps its a bad solder joint on a component on the flight controller and/or one or more of the esc's? Maybe you should stick them in the oven and reflow the solder? So many opportunities to troubleshoot! What a great experience!

 

[makattack]

I know @earthsciteach! For me, it's like my hobby and my work have merged! LOL!

Actually, as Patrick sort of implied, we're working with computers / microcontrollers / processors, etc with persistent and nonpersistent storage. Flash NAND memory is basically an evolution of the eeprom chips that you erased via an IR light and programmed in a specialized programming devices.

It's not unknown that cosmic rays/radiation/EM fields/moths can affect programmable devices. In fact, that's where the term "bug" arose for problematic computers/software.

This may or may not fix your problem, but I have seen successful problem resolution by resetting the software. Of course, not always... the beeps you heard on the audio for the Apollo 11 mission were the astronauts resetting the guidance and navigation computer because of an error. Ultimately, it didn't fix the problem, so they just flew it manually.

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11.1201-pa.html
https://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/ForDummies.html
http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/moon-mars/a21771/code-for-apollo-moon-landings-on-github/

 

[earthsciteach]

I just had a realization! The nature of the multirotor hobby is why there are so many grumpy jerks in that hobby! It all makes sense now! Go on any multirotor social media group and you will see people arguing, people being put down for the props they fly, people being denigrated for not flying a certain flight controller, people being told they are ruining the hobby by other people who are being told they are ruining the hobby. People being called stupid because they mention soft mounting motors. This is exactly why so many in the multirotor hobby hate DJI products! I get it now! DJI products don't need any troubleshooting! They just work and work well.

Wow, what a moment of clarity!

 

[OttoPilot]

My troubleshooting course of action for this would be:

1. Flash the ESCs and FC to make sure their bits and bytes didn't get scrambled.

-if that doesn't work-

2. Replace every wire between the FC, ESC, PDB, and motor. Sometimes electrical faults don't show up when wiggling wires.

-if that doesn't work-

3. Swap the ESC to another arm...verify whether the issue follows the ESC. If it does...replace the ESC. If it doesn't work it means you have an issue with your motor, PDB, or FC.

-if it doesn't follow the ESC-

4. Swap the motor to another arm/ESC. If the issue follows the motor (this is unlikely) replace the motor.

-if it doesn't follow the motor-

5. The issue is either with your FC or PDB. PDB is cheapest (but most labor intensive) to replace...so I would do that first. If that doesn't work...new FC time.

 

[earthsciteach]

6. Sacrifice a goat.

 

[PsyBorg]

I prefer chihuahua's for sacrifices. They are way more abundant in my complex then any goat could ever be. There were over 20 here at last summers count. I am sure they have bread even more over the winter.

As for troubleshooting I have been down the line and am nearly certain its the programming that's borked. Everything works fine when its in a good mood. Too much randomness for it to be a bad part or a bad wire. The question remains if I do reflash it what are the chances applying Bills law that I brick what ever memory the esc's use and make it totally useless until I can get a replacement.

I also have seen that KISS has recently released a new version and some people are having issues with it and not being able to revert. I did see the google notification that a new version has been added to my apps so I may be one of those people very shortly.

Rock and a hard place. sigh....

I guess nothing left to do but do it. I will do that in the AM that way if it works I will be really happy for the rest of the day. If it doesn't I will know that what ever was meant to kill the day has already happened so I don't have to look for falling anvils or pianos the rest of the day. win win.

 

[Crazy Goats]

Yeah I was going to suggest that maybe your quad was posessed so I agree with #6 Good idea about the chihuahuas though.

 

[PsyBorg]

Chihuahua's are an easy and obvious choice since the bottom of the totem pole up is slime , slugs. politicians, lawyers, chihuahuas, and cats.

 

[earthsciteach]

Sending a politician to the RC Gods is really only likely to result in more smite for you. That's why we can't seem to get rid of them here.

 

[LitterBug]

I personally would sacrifice some coffee beans to the grinder and feed them to Mr. Coffee. He usually produces some pretty good excrement.

After that, I would fire up the soldering iron and give each of the pads a touch. My guess would be either a cold solder joint or a pad pulling off. Possibly a break in a wire. Check power and continuity with a meter while wiggling and jiggling components as well.

Cheers!
LitterBug

 

[PsyBorg]

I just had a realization! The nature of the multirotor hobby is why there are so many grumpy jerks in that hobby! It all makes sense now! Go on any multirotor social media group and you will see people arguing, people being put down for the props they fly, people being denigrated for not flying a certain flight controller, people being told they are ruining the hobby by other people who are being told they are ruining the hobby. People being called stupid because they mention soft mounting motors. This is exactly why so many in the multirotor hobby hate DJI products! I get it now! DJI products don't need any troubleshooting! They just work and work well.

Wow, what a moment of clarity!

Pssst hey teach... the grumpy jerks were in the hobby LOOOOONG before multirotors came about. Although I am fairly sure they have increased the over all grumpiness at times since inception. But in my case it does not matter as the best I EVER get is a mild grump even on the best of days anymore.

 

[earthsciteach]

Pssst hey teach... the grumpy jerks were in the hobby LOOOOONG before multirotors came about. Although I am fairly sure they have increased the over all grumpiness at times since inception. But in my case it does not matter as the best I EVER get is a mild grump even on the best of days anymore.

So, the meds are working? Or is it the self-medication?

 

[PsyBorg]

I personally would sacrifice some coffee beans to the grinder and feed them to Mr. Coffee. He usually produces some pretty good excrement.

After that, I would fire up the soldering iron and give each of the pads a touch. My guess would be either a cold solder joint or a pad pulling off. Possibly a break in a wire. Check power and continuity with a meter while wiggling and jiggling components as well.

Cheers!
LitterBug

<<< Haz fresh cup in hand as we speak. I am more then reasonably sure this is not a component issue or a wiring issue. I been thru all the electrical troubleshooting short of breaking out an o scope and digging online for schematics. Some of my A.A.S. in electronics did manage to stick in my brain so I am reasonably sure it is down to software / memory as the thing flys incredibly locked in now once I can get it to boot properly. As soon as I wake up a bit more and the eyes start to focus I will plug it in and save my settings then re-flash it all. I may even upgrade the firmware while I am in there after reading more about the changes and issues people have already found with it. I am just a huge fan of why change something if what you are using works well to begin with so I don't really like "Upgrading" as that is all determined by someone elses opinion of what is good. On the other hand I can't make my own determination if I don't try it.. I just have to pick the rocks I wish to be wedged in between when I make my choice a permanent thing.

 

[PsyBorg]

So, the meds are working? Or is it the self-medication?

Got away from meds a LOONNG time ago.. They were making me more destructive then anything. I can't count how much money I lost to "BILL SMASH!!!!" when things did not behave as they should. Now I just walk away for a bit and do other things then come back with fresh eyes a and thoughts. Ooohhhhhmm mada pad may ooohmmm homney esta homene esta oooOOOHHHMMM

 

[cranialrectosis]

Heck HARRY SMASH!!!! is how I fly.

 

[PsyBorg]

Huge difference between crashing while flying and stomping something into the floorboards with the intention to stomp it THRU the floor boards though I killed an average of 3 to 5 keyboards a year folding them in half after long term med use and the mental toll they were taking.

 

[PsyBorg]

sooo..update... No dice on the reflash. The FC wont read nor talk to it at all. When I got to flash the ESC's it lists esc 1,3, and 4 with the correct information and ESC 2 is simply blank. I guess I have to root n pillage to find where I put the spare esc and motor I got a while back and swap it out and try again. Hopefully my memory activates with some fresh coffee driving it and that is not a hard task for the day.