No clue brother. No scale.
Help me? Chronicals of a guy who can't fly very well...
- Thread starter xunedeinx
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Go to WalMart and buy a $15 cheapie digital scale. They're in the cooking department there. I use mine all the time to weigh airframes, batteries, servos, etc. I sometimes lay all the electronics together on the scale to see what the all up weight with different components will be. Too heavy? swap out some lighter servos or a lighter battery. I figure out a target weight for a plane and then swap different components on the scale to hit that weight. You can also make a simple rig to use with it to measure how much thrust in ounces a particular motor/battery/prop combo can make.
Something as simple as swapping out 9 gram servos for 5 gram servos can make a big difference. Swapping a 2 cell instead of a 3 cell, etc. Every gram counts on an 8 ounce plane. The difference 1 or 2 ounces makes on a really light plane is huge.
Also, if you are throwing out 230 watts on 3 cells, drop down to a smaller 2 cell. It'll save something like 10-15% in weight and still make plenty of power. Then you'll be making somewhere around 150 watts and be easier to get ahold of. You'll have to go up in diameter prop to make the same Amp draw. 150 Watts in a 8-10 ounce plane is still crazy power. In my experience, 100 watts per pound, propped correctly will fly all I can throw at it. Giant loops, ripping snap rolls, Avalanches, all the basic Pattern maneuvers.
Something as simple as swapping out 9 gram servos for 5 gram servos can make a big difference. Swapping a 2 cell instead of a 3 cell, etc. Every gram counts on an 8 ounce plane. The difference 1 or 2 ounces makes on a really light plane is huge.
Also, if you are throwing out 230 watts on 3 cells, drop down to a smaller 2 cell. It'll save something like 10-15% in weight and still make plenty of power. Then you'll be making somewhere around 150 watts and be easier to get ahold of. You'll have to go up in diameter prop to make the same Amp draw. 150 Watts in a 8-10 ounce plane is still crazy power. In my experience, 100 watts per pound, propped correctly will fly all I can throw at it. Giant loops, ripping snap rolls, Avalanches, all the basic Pattern maneuvers.
You can always go bigger down the line. Right now, just learn to fly. Make it easy on yourself and tune it down, make it as light as you can possibly make it, fly only when it's dead calm. A 5mph gust can really toss an 8 ounce plane around. You can do this. Forget about trying to learn loops, inverted, snap rolls. Just do nice easy racetrack laps around the flying field. Both ways. Keep the same altitude through your turns. Have fun!! One of my old flying buddies started with his trainer and within a few weeks he started showing up to the field with all manner of crazy higher performance planes. He got frustrated when he pounded them in every flight. AFter a few weeks of that I talked him into going back to his trainer and he instantly went back to success. You would be surprised how much fun you can have with a trainer. If you get a few guys in the air playing follow the leader flying low and slow 4 feet off the grass at sunset, you can't help but smile.
Namactual
Elite member
A few grams here and there really does not hurt that much, but it all depends on the airframe/wing loading. The larger the airframe the easier it is to get way with a few extra grams. You can counter with extra power/speed, but as stated above that's not really what you are looking for in a trainer.
I would not sweat the motor so much, I mean there are limits, but being over powered can not get you into trouble as long as you keep it easy in the throttle and you use an appropriate prop. The battery is the number one offender for breaking your flight performance. They get heavy in a hurry which leads to more speed, more inertia and ultimately more damage when you auger.
I would not sweat the motor so much, I mean there are limits, but being over powered can not get you into trouble as long as you keep it easy in the throttle and you use an appropriate prop. The battery is the number one offender for breaking your flight performance. They get heavy in a hurry which leads to more speed, more inertia and ultimately more damage when you auger.
Here's a picture of the recent carnage, And my observation of how it happened.
While flying (Engaging in an uncontrolled, time delayed, crash), My 6 minute timer went off, so I tried to take it in for a landing. The place behind Im flying at is not exactly the most optimal place to learn. If you can imaging behind me, and to my left, and large "L shaped lake/retention pond, to my right is my backyard, and in front of me, across a 7 foot deep by 4 foot wide drainage ditch is a huge farm, continuing to my left, about 30 feet from the lake. To land, Either I come from my left towards me, over the 10ft wide strip of grass between the lake and the drainage ditch, or I come in from directly in front of me, heading towards me over the farm land in front of the ditch.
I was doing what I felt was an optimistic approach, from the infront of me approach. It was going kind of slow, with about 10% throttle, directly at me and fairly straight (fish story?). When it went over the drainage ditch, I guess it caught some crosswind and got pushed to my left, its right, so I did what I would have done in real life, left rudder to counteract the cross wind.
Wrong choice. I thumb raped that control stick, over corrected, and as it yaw'd left, it banked right a tad, caught some wind, tip stalled, and went tail first into the edge of the drainage ditch.
Did I mention It was a good approach? Might have been on the verge of prematurely stalling. Eh, oh well.
Lessons learned
-Beware unforseen cross winds
-Maintain a good speed on approach instead of feathering an almost uncontrolled stall
-Dont over correct, stall out, and dig a fence pole hole with the planes rear end. The ground wins.
Also, after that flight, I recharged and put 320mah back into the 800mah pack, So I could technically double my flite time to 12 min, pull 640mah, and be at just over 80% of the pack.
Carnage pic time. Enjoy!
While flying (Engaging in an uncontrolled, time delayed, crash), My 6 minute timer went off, so I tried to take it in for a landing. The place behind Im flying at is not exactly the most optimal place to learn. If you can imaging behind me, and to my left, and large "L shaped lake/retention pond, to my right is my backyard, and in front of me, across a 7 foot deep by 4 foot wide drainage ditch is a huge farm, continuing to my left, about 30 feet from the lake. To land, Either I come from my left towards me, over the 10ft wide strip of grass between the lake and the drainage ditch, or I come in from directly in front of me, heading towards me over the farm land in front of the ditch.
I was doing what I felt was an optimistic approach, from the infront of me approach. It was going kind of slow, with about 10% throttle, directly at me and fairly straight (fish story?). When it went over the drainage ditch, I guess it caught some crosswind and got pushed to my left, its right, so I did what I would have done in real life, left rudder to counteract the cross wind.
Wrong choice. I thumb raped that control stick, over corrected, and as it yaw'd left, it banked right a tad, caught some wind, tip stalled, and went tail first into the edge of the drainage ditch.
Did I mention It was a good approach? Might have been on the verge of prematurely stalling. Eh, oh well.
Lessons learned
-Beware unforseen cross winds
-Maintain a good speed on approach instead of feathering an almost uncontrolled stall
-Dont over correct, stall out, and dig a fence pole hole with the planes rear end. The ground wins.
Also, after that flight, I recharged and put 320mah back into the 800mah pack, So I could technically double my flite time to 12 min, pull 640mah, and be at just over 80% of the pack.
Carnage pic time. Enjoy!
Well Nam, I see your point about more power enabling a pilot to power out of a bad spot, but for somebody just learning it's been my experience that managing that extra power can be an issue. I've seen many a pilot use that throttle stick as an on/off switch more or less. It takes discipline to really use throttle management. I'd rather see a new to be pilot use a sensibly powered plane and not have to worry about an overpowered lawn dart. If a plane is lighter powered, then chopping power and trying to get the wings level and the fuse horizontal before impact can cause less damage than going full throttle on an overpowered plane in an attempt to pull out and augering it into the ground or worse. I've watched new pilots go full throttle in an attempt to pull out of a bad situation and hit cars, people, etc. instead of chopping the throttle and safely putting it down.
I do agree with you that generally the overpowered plane will be heavier and that isn't a good thing. Less amps drawn, less power, lighter battery are all a good thing on a trainer.
I do agree with you that generally the overpowered plane will be heavier and that isn't a good thing. Less amps drawn, less power, lighter battery are all a good thing on a trainer.
Namactual
Elite member
Oh, I agree 100%
I am just saying there is nothing wrong with planning ahead and buying a bigger motor than required as long as you keep the prop within reason and have good throttle control.
It sounds like he has it under control anyway. A few more flights and he will be inverted 2 feet off of the deck.
I am just saying there is nothing wrong with planning ahead and buying a bigger motor than required as long as you keep the prop within reason and have good throttle control.
It sounds like he has it under control anyway. A few more flights and he will be inverted 2 feet off of the deck.
I tried the poly wing first, having no aile control just didn't sit easy with me, I'm not sure why. Built the stock sport wing and my flites went from "Why is it doing that" to, Oh, I'm banking, oh, there's the ground, better pull up, too far, oh keep going itll come around, I am high enough, right? We'll See..
Extending the wing 8 inches total Gave me loads more lift and a much lower stall, and it made it easier to control.
That 46" wing with no poly or dihedral seems more stable to me than the sport wing which was a heavy, fast stalling, rocket, and the poly wing which just seemed wrong.
Extending the wing 8 inches total Gave me loads more lift and a much lower stall, and it made it easier to control.
That 46" wing with no poly or dihedral seems more stable to me than the sport wing which was a heavy, fast stalling, rocket, and the poly wing which just seemed wrong.
Looking back on this thread I do think that overpower and overweight is the primary thing you're up against. I learned to fly RC on the Tiny Trainer too - but with an 1806 1800kv motor, 2s800mah battery, and 8x4 prop for the first couple months of flying. I was doing pretty good too, and then the first time I put the 3s800mah battery in it with the same motor I was all out of control again for a couple flights. The weight difference between a 2s800 and a 3s800 battery can be up to 25% - and on a small lightweight airframe like the TT that does matter. It can increase your stall speed by a good 5-10mph so you need to land at a faster flying speed. And with the extra 80 or more watts of power I was just careening from one almost catastrophe to the next.
If you do really want to stay with the 3s800mah battery for now, (and the 2200kv motor) go to a 1" smaller diameter prop and try limiting your throttle output severely - like never going above 50% throttle - and see if that starts to help tame the tiger.
Also, hat cam video will be super helpful to see what's going on and help you stay in the air. Start it with the control surface check so we see which way all the surfaces are moving and how much, and then the launch and epic ride On board video will be entertaining, but not really helpful for diagnosing problems.
I am on board with staying 4 channel though - you know what the control surfaces are supposed to do so it's just a matter of training the thumbs.
And just hang in here with it - the first one, especially without some in person assistance, is the trickiest! It gets easier from here
If you do really want to stay with the 3s800mah battery for now, (and the 2200kv motor) go to a 1" smaller diameter prop and try limiting your throttle output severely - like never going above 50% throttle - and see if that starts to help tame the tiger.
Also, hat cam video will be super helpful to see what's going on and help you stay in the air. Start it with the control surface check so we see which way all the surfaces are moving and how much, and then the launch and epic ride
On board video will be entertaining, but not really helpful for diagnosing problems.I am on board with staying 4 channel though - you know what the control surfaces are supposed to do so it's just a matter of training the thumbs.
And just hang in here with it - the first one, especially without some in person assistance, is the trickiest! It gets easier from here
Carnage? That's not carnage! Now this is carnage (please read in the voice of Crocodile Dundee).
A bit of hot glue and she is good.
Not to distract from the valid technical conversation about the weight and power, but it seems that you are not quite making it hard enough to learn to fly:
" behind me, and to my left, and large "L shaped lake/retention pond, to my right is my backyard, and in front of me, across a 7 foot deep by 4 foot wide drainage ditch is a huge farm, continuing to my left, about 30 feet from the lake."
I would suggest also trying to stand on one leg and hop - this might be the edge you are looking for.
Seriously though, even if you might not be aware of it, the reptillian part of your brain is going crazy thinking about these obstacles as you try to land. Any better flying spots near you?
DamoRC
Looking back on this thread I do think that overpower and overweight is the primary thing you're up against. I learned to fly RC on the Tiny Trainer too - but with an 1806 1800kv motor, 2s800mah battery, and 8x4 prop for the first couple months of flying. I was doing pretty good too, and then the first time I put the 3s800mah battery in it with the same motor I was all out of control again for a couple flights. The weight difference between a 2s800 and a 3s800 battery can be up to 25% - and on a small lightweight airframe like the TT that does matter. It can increase your stall speed by a good 5-10mph so you need to land at a faster flying speed. And with the extra 80 or more watts of power I was just careening from one almost catastrophe to the next.
If you do really want to stay with the 3s800mah battery for now, (and the 2200kv motor) go to a 1" smaller diameter prop and try limiting your throttle output severely - like never going above 50% throttle - and see if that starts to help tame the tiger.
Also, hat cam video will be super helpful to see what's going on and help you stay in the air. Start it with the control surface check so we see which way all the surfaces are moving and how much, and then the launch and epic ride
I am on board with staying 4 channel though - you know what the control surfaces are supposed to do so it's just a matter of training the thumbs.
And just hang in here with it - the first one, especially without some in person assistance, is the trickiest! It gets easier from here
Once I hide some cash from the misses, I'll get a couple 2s 800mah lipos, and maybe a few SF props. Would a 8" SF on the 2306 2200kv with 2s be too much for the motor? Good advice. Also, ill find a way to attach the camera to my head for yall, or figure something out.
Carnage? That's not carnage! Now this is carnage (please read in the voice of Crocodile Dundee).
A bit of hot glue and she is good.
Not to distract from the valid technical conversation about the weight and power, but it seems that you are not quite making it hard enough to learn to fly:
" behind me, and to my left, and large "L shaped lake/retention pond, to my right is my backyard, and in front of me, across a 7 foot deep by 4 foot wide drainage ditch is a huge farm, continuing to my left, about 30 feet from the lake."
I would suggest also trying to stand on one leg and hop - this might be the edge you are looking for.
Seriously though, even if you might not be aware of it, the reptillian part of your brain is going crazy thinking about these obstacles as you try to land. Any better flying spots near you?
DamoRC
The corner of that backyard and the fence is where I fly. That brish line drops down 7ft to a ditch, and 3 foot on the other side of the fence next to the ditch is where my plane ate it.
Yea, there are other places to fly, but none with the convenience of sneaking out back for a few min.
PsyBorg
Wake up! Time to fly!
Thats not a crash.. this is a crash.. watch from 2:30 mark and see if you can count the number of tumbles... 1. I cant believe I flew slower then a gramma back then and 2. that it would tumble that insanely. I slowed it down as much as I could here and counted green as it went by and lost count at 24 see what you come up with.
PsyBorg
Wake up! Time to fly!
Oh you got the best of ALL RC realms there mate. Open field bouncy area for monster trucks and cars back on to perfectly manicured green grass. The beautiful dog leg pond for boat racing complete with tower to stand above and get the good field of view. back to open field for flying everything you can think of with that lake side grass runway. Tree line for tree dancing with freestyle quads. You got it all!
PlaY80
New member
ok, I found my brother from another mother
), that vid represents me as much as it's representing all of us … some will post it some will not .It really is a sweet place to be, and as long as I keep it high or in front of me, no worries about the water. Eventually I want to build a waterplane.
Theres some nice jumps more to the left that would be perfect for my old team associated B4.
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