Old Fogey to V - Fogey

flyranger

Junior Member
Getting yet another plane ready for Flite Fest 2021, I reached into my archives and resurrected a design from 2013, the Old Fogey. Not content to leave anything alone, I had to make a few mods.

I took the fuse plan, cut it on the centerline and reduced the fuse width to 2 inches. Added V-tail, not because it needed it, but I like a challenge. Plane was uncontrollable in left/right, something I remembered seeing on the original design, something called "Dutch Roll". To make this go away in 2014, I added area to the Fin and Rudder.

Kept the swappable motor mount but raised the aft end up, to set down thrust. Fixed with skewers through the fuse.

Took the horizontal stab and elevator and increased area by 20 percent, score cut and glued for an angle of 110 degrees. My old buddy "Dutch Roll" was baaaaak. Built 2nd fuse and made the angle 90 degrees, which should increase "rudder" effectiveness. Went flying just before a storm in 8 mph winds and stability improved, but still a handful, more than this old man wants!

What the heck, this is foam, right? Added two more inches to the height of the ruddervators and in winds of 12 to 14 mph, tested again with an 1800ma 3s. Almost there, but still a handful.

Set exponential to 50% (yeah, I know that's high, but I did warn you I'm an old man) and reduced throws. Much better, but needs improvement.

Cut the wing tips off and reglued with only half the original dihedral (from 3 inches to 1.5 inches). Moment of truth and she flies!
No more problems. Ran down the battery in high winds with a 20 minute flight.

Specs: 7x3.8 APC prop on a 2218-1180 radial pulling 4.7 amps with static thrust of 24 oz. AUW is 17 oz running a Castle Creations 15 amp ESC.
Wing is unchanged, except for dihedral of 1.5 inches, each wingtip;

After FF21, will rebuild a little prettier, but I'm happy with the design.

Attempted a pusher design using a 3D printed wing mount, but had to scrap that. My lovely wife is getting me a 3D printer for my birthday. Will try again then.
 

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ThatsALotOfPlanes

Active member
This is really cool! I've tried a couple of mods to reduce the dutch roll on my fogeys. Reduced the height of the fuse by 1 3/4 inches, messed with the polyhedral amount. I've decided that the dutch roll just adds character to the way it flies, it's fun to get it rolling one way and use the momentum of the roll to do wingovers in the opposite direction. How much authority did you have compared to the normal tail?
 

flyranger

Junior Member
This is really cool! I've tried a couple of mods to reduce the dutch roll on my fogeys. Reduced the height of the fuse by 1 3/4 inches, messed with the polyhedral amount. I've decided that the dutch roll just adds character to the way it flies, it's fun to get it rolling one way and use the momentum of the roll to do wingovers in the opposite direction. How much authority did you have compared to the normal tail?
I have given up on this project. Plane, after all my changes, is still barely manuverable. Scrapped.
 

flyranger

Junior Member
alan0043, thanks for the link. Really good explanation, not "Dutch Roll" but a loss of effictiveness of the rudder due to the 4 deg positive angle on the undercambered wing and the downwash removing the effectiveness of the low tail. Did what he suggested, cut out a fuse with the tail higher and with a 1 deg positive angle. Will maiden tomorrow morn, when winds are less. Kept the polyhedral at half of the amt. on the plans.
 

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flyranger

Junior Member
No one around to video, but the Fogey flies slowly in a 6 to 8 mph wind, no problems! Was slow to turn, so added more rudder travel. May be due to my modification on the wing. Will fly again with just the stock wing. Two 10 min flights on a 1300ma 3s and charger reported 40% left on the batteries.
 

flyranger

Junior Member
Success! Based on the pic of the flag, winds of 8-10 mph (probably more since flag is large), flew down two batteries in the winds with no problem with the new wing (standard polyhedral of 3 inches). Reinforced wing center with a small carbon rod. The popsicle sticks to prevent rubber band damage also strengthened the center of the wing. I am very happy with my windy, slow flyer. After 8 min flights, batteries had 46% remaining.
 

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alan0043

Well-known member
Success! Based on the pic of the flag, winds of 8-10 mph (probably more since flag is large), flew down two batteries in the winds with no problem with the new wing (standard polyhedral of 3 inches). Reinforced wing center with a small carbon rod. The popsicle sticks to prevent rubber band damage also strengthened the center of the wing. I am very happy with my windy, slow flyer. After 8 min flights, batteries had 46% remaining.

Thank you for sharing. Nice to hear that things went well. :)
 

alan0043

Well-known member
Hi flyranger,

I was wondering what if the Old Fogey was a 4 channel plane. Is it possible to add ailerons to a under cambered wing ? What do you think ? I'm curious to know if the plane would fly any better. Just thinking out loud. I have not flown an Old Fogey. Just really getting into the hobby.

Al