Tarot vs DJI vs NAZA v2 vs NAZA lite...

[Stradawhovious]

Well, it's time for a new bird. Why? Because I'm bored.

I'm looking at a Hex, but there are a few variables I don't have any experience with. It would be awesome if some of you folks who have had some first hand experience with some of theses things would chime in with your .02.

First variable... frame. DJI 550 vs Tarot 680.

The obvious choice to me would be the Tarot 680. Longer wingspan, cleaner build capabilities, Carbon Fiber construction, integrated PCB, folding frame, sexy as all get out... all of these things are very appealing. The only things I can see the DJI having a leg up with would be initial price and availability/cost of replacement parts. It is a CHEAP frame.

Second would be the Flight controller. I am (reluctantly) going to buy a new FC for this craft. Why the hesitation? I own an Arducopter board with GPS, but after countless hours of swearing, crying and making deals with God I still can't for the life of me figure the damn thing out. While I've been doing these things the board has become yesterday's technology. Would I like to use it? SURE!!! but I just don't have the patience for it any more.

This brings me to my choices. The Naza Lite or the Naza V2.

In my intertubes digging I still can't get a real straightforward answer as to whe makes the V2 twice the price of the lite. I've seen the DJI chart, and that doesn't help me much. I've read first hand accounts, but none of them are very clear. What would I be missing out on (other than the ability to tie into other proprietary DJI equipment) on choosing the far less expensive and seemingly almost equally capable Lite over the V2?

Also, if there are any issues you fell I'm leaving out (assuming I'm using quality motors, esc and rx etc.) Please let me know.

 

[PHugger]

I'm building a small hex just now.
I decided to put an Eagle Tree Vector in it.
I haven't flown it yet, but the features seem endless.
In your price range, it's worth considering.



Best regards,
PCH

 

[Darkback2]

So all of this is just my opinion...

The tarot 660 is a pretty sexy frame. The DJI f550 isn't bad looking either, but I agree with your assessment that the tarot would be cleaner looking, and the foldability once you get up to something that big is probably quite practical.

With the Naza-m Lite I fly at work, (students scratch built a heavy lift hex) We haven't had any real problems.

With the Naza-m Lite I fly at home it had a strange problem where when you took off everything would be fine for about 30 seconds, and then it would fly sideways ignoring all stick inputs. I later learned that the problem stemmed from the IMU needing to warm up. I believe I read that the Naza-m v2 has a similar problem. I personally corrected this by letting it sit for 2.5 minutes before each flight. haven't had a problem since. Other people just let it sit for a few minutes before the first flight of the day and are fine after that. I could probably get away with that but honestly I am a bit gun shy at this point.

I think the reason why I didn't see this problem sooner, or with the heavy lift at work, was because I insist that the kids only fly it with a full GPS connection. Waiting for GPS= waiting for the IMU to "warm-up".

 

[razor02097]

Well, it's time for a new bird. Why? Because I'm bored.

I'm looking at a Hex, but there are a few variables I don't have any experience with. It would be awesome if some of you folks who have had some first hand experience with some of theses things would chime in with your .02.

First variable... frame. DJI 550 vs Tarot 680.

The obvious choice to me would be the Tarot 680. Longer wingspan, cleaner build capabilities, Carbon Fiber construction, integrated PCB, folding frame, sexy as all get out... all of these things are very appealing. The only things I can see the DJI having a leg up with would be initial price and availability/cost of replacement parts. It is a CHEAP frame.

Second would be the Flight controller. I am (reluctantly) going to buy a new FC for this craft. Why the hesitation? I own an Arducopter board with GPS, but after countless hours of swearing, crying and making deals with God I still can't for the life of me figure the damn thing out. While I've been doing these things the board has become yesterday's technology. Would I like to use it? SURE!!! but I just don't have the patience for it any more.

This brings me to my choices. The Naza Lite or the Naza V2.

In my intertubes digging I still can't get a real straightforward answer as to whe makes the V2 twice the price of the lite. I've seen the DJI chart, and that doesn't help me much. I've read first hand accounts, but none of them are very clear. What would I be missing out on (other than the ability to tie into other proprietary DJI equipment) on choosing the far less expensive and seemingly almost equally capable Lite over the V2?

Also, if there are any issues you fell I'm leaving out (assuming I'm using quality motors, esc and rx etc.) Please let me know.

AFAIK the only big differences are the NAZA M lite is based off of the NAZA V1 and doesn't support the expansion modules...such as the zenmuse gimbal, BT module, OSD, etc. You can still hook up a GPS to it if you want to get all of your RTL, loiter modes and such. Honestly if you aren't building a full blown AP rig based on DJI products and want a solid FC the lite should do just fine IMO.

 

[Stradawhovious]

Honestly if you aren't building a full blown AP rig based on DJI products and want a solid FC the lite should do just fine IMO.

Yeah, this is more of a hobby AP rig. If I wanted to build the whole hog, instead of building what I wanted I would probably just grab an Inspire or the like, based on their solid reviews. As it stands, I want to keep the whole build as far under a grand as I can make it (gimbal and all), and still have a reliable, solid craft.

I'm kind of surprised that there aren't as many "V2 vs Lite" threads with a side by side flight analysis. This leads me to believe that they are very comprable. I've heard that the GPS lock for loiter mode is better for the v2 than the lite, but I have yet to substantiate that with someone who has experience with both FCs. Only hearsay and assumption.

If based on flight charateristics alone the lite is as good (or just about as good) as the V2, I don't see spending the extra $150.

With the Naza-m Lite I fly at home it had a strange problem...

I very much appreciate your real-world input! I agree, that is a strange problem to have, but the fix kind of makes sense, expecially if the problem was avoided by your students when they let the board warm up.

 

[razor02097]

Yeah, this is more of a hobby AP rig. If I wanted to build the whole hog, instead of building what I wanted I would probably just grab an Inspire or the like, based on their solid reviews. As it stands, I want to keep the whole build as far under a grand as I can make it (gimbal and all), and still have a reliable, solid craft.

I'm kind of surprised that there aren't as many "V2 vs Lite" threads with a side by side flight analysis. This leads me to believe that they are very comprable. I've heard that the GPS lock for loiter mode is better for the v2 than the lite, but I have yet to substantiate that with someone who has experience with both FCs. Only hearsay and assumption.

If based on flight charateristics alone the lite is as good (or just about as good) as the V2, I don't see spending the extra $150.

That is probably very true. The V2 appears to have a lot newer hardware and likely better software as a result... But like you said... you will pay dearly for it

I would say if you have a smaller budget either go for the lite or maybe look into the V1 if you want all the extension goodies.

I have to be honest...I'm not a DJI guy at all. Not necessarily because I don't think it is a good product just that I'm a DIY sort of person and I think DJI kind of takes that aspect away. Which is great for many people! Especially if they want a more plug and play solution. So I don't personally know a lot about their products. I do know someone that is and everything I've heard about the differences was from him. After a quick web search I turned up this page looks like there are a few more differences but for the most part the guy was right.

 

[Stradawhovious]

Well, unless I can find a compelling reason not to, it looks like the combo will be the Tarot 680pro with the Naza Lite. I just ordered the RX, so I'm committed to the project now.

 

[Ocean]

I strongly strongly recommend the Vector.

It's capabilities far exceed that of the Naza.

If you can bare it, the Pixhawk is even better.

 

[PHugger]

The Vector really shines with its OSD and on-screen programming.
I think the Pix excels in mission planning.



Best regards,
PCH

 

[Stradawhovious]

I guess I'm not familiar enough with the Vector or Pixhawk to consider them. The Vector looks awesome with the color HUD, but there have been reports of inconsistent GPS lock. The Pixhawk, well, I just plain don't know enough about it.

At this point, I'm still really up in the air as to which FC to get. I was thinking NAZA Lite, but then a buddy of mine had his NAZA controlled Flamewheel 450 go AWOL on him and land in the middle of a lake this weekend... GoPro and all. This leads me back to my APM... which I have never been able to successfully program with MIssion planner or the like.

I would really like a solid "plug-n-play" type unit that has been time tested and used with great success with a bunch of people. Is that so hard???

Apparently so.

On that note, if there is anyone who can tell my how to reliably and SUCCESSFULLY calibrate my Arducopter's (2.6) GPS, I will buy you a *beer.


*Need to be at the same bar I'm at, and of legal age.

 

[PHugger]

The Vector GPS issues are of two types from the stuff I read.

1. "Normal" interference issues that all GPS are susceptible to
2. The Vector requires a specific calibration process or it won't lock GPS

Other than that it seems pretty stable. I was very pleased to see how great their support was.
Hopefully I'll soon have some personal experience to go by.


Best regard,
PCH

 

[Stradawhovious]

The Vector GPS issues are of two types from the stuff I read.

1. "Normal" interference issues that all GPS are susceptible to
2. The Vector requires a specific calibration process or it won't lock GPS

Other than that it seems pretty stable. I was very pleased to see how great their support was.
Hopefully I'll soon have some personal experience to go by.


Best regard,
PCH

After a long weekend of beating my head into the wall over this issue I've decided to go with the Arducopter 2.6 board and GPS I already own. My issue is that I have yet to get this thing to work with any of my multirotors which I'm sure is an organic interface issue. I'm hoping to find someone in my area to give me a hands on tutorial with this thing. I've had a buddy of mine get it to work with his stuff (it was a hand-me-down from him when he got his NAZA FC) so I know it works... Just doesn't want to calibrate for me for some reason.

If I still can't get that to work, then I have the hard choice of which FC to go with. Either way, if I have to buy another one it's a wash procewise as to whether I buy it as part of the fleabay kit, or seperately at a later date... so nothing is really lost in the process.

That said, here is the package so far...

Tarot 680 PRO TL68P00 frame
- 6 x Tarot 4006/620KV Multirotor Brushless Motor
- 6 x Hobbywing Platinum Pro 30A OPTO ESC
- 6 x 1355 Propeller
- Arducopter 2.6 w/ GPS
- Lemonrx 10ch Fullrange rx w/ telemetry
- Spektrum DX8 tx

Not quite sure on the battery yet... Everything I've read for the 620kv motors is to stick with 4s... more research to come. Probably a 4s in the 5200 to 5800mah range. I can double up for longer flight times if necessary, but 5200mah should still get me about 15 minutes of reserved (read: not-banging-the-sticks-around) flight I would think.

Also not sure on the Gimbal. Using a mobius, so I'm sure that limits me if I want something I don't have to secure the camera to with duct tape and rubber bands.

 

[NHS77]

Just to pitch in on the NAZA discussion: I have a NAZA Lite in my QAV 500. It does it's job nicely with no real problems. The only thing (as far as I know the V2 has the same issue) is the Baro getting messed up when the FC is in extreme sunlight. (Even though everything is in an enclosure). This can get scary as your craft suddenly drops or rises a few meters. Only happens in full GPS mode. Flying in that mode is very little fun once you get over the initial wow effect of being able to park your craft in mid air. Other than that it's constantly doing little corrections and feels like flying a brick. In stabilized mode (attitude in DJI terms) it is a super smooth ride, but other much cheaper FC's achieve that as well.

I've read numerous reports that the V2 is much smoother in GPS mode and handles everything a little better. Also, there have been no firmware updates for the Lite after the initial 1.0 it ships with. Supposedly the hardware is much the same but the software on the V2 is better and continues to be improved.

There is also a hack (PC only) where you can flash the NAZA V2 firmware on the Lite, is recognized by the NAZA config software as a V2 and is supposed to handle much better. I haven't had the heart to try this yet.

I don't think I would buy another one, whichever version. I'm currently very impressed by the Open Pilot system. If I were to build a bigger craft now I'd probably try to get REVO or NanoREVO and add a GPS module to that. Much more options = much more fun (Apart from basic PIDs Naza won't let you do anything fancy)

 

[nilsen]

After a long weekend of beating my head into the wall over this issue I've decided to go with the Arducopter 2.6 board and GPS I already own. My issue is that I have yet to get this thing to work with any of my multirotors which I'm sure is an organic interface issue. I'm hoping to find someone in my area to give me a hands on tutorial with this thing. I've had a buddy of mine get it to work with his stuff (it was a hand-me-down from him when he got his NAZA FC) so I know it works... Just doesn't want to calibrate for me for some reason.

If I still can't get that to work, then I have the hard choice of which FC to go with. Either way, if I have to buy another one it's a wash procewise as to whether I buy it as part of the fleabay kit, or seperately at a later date... so nothing is really lost in the process.

That said, here is the package so far...

Tarot 680 PRO TL68P00 frame
- 6 x Tarot 4006/620KV Multirotor Brushless Motor
- 6 x Hobbywing Platinum Pro 30A OPTO ESC
- 6 x 1355 Propeller
- Arducopter 2.6 w/ GPS
- Lemonrx 10ch Fullrange rx w/ telemetry
- Spektrum DX8 tx

Not quite sure on the battery yet... Everything I've read for the 620kv motors is to stick with 4s... more research to come. Probably a 4s in the 5200 to 5800mah range. I can double up for longer flight times if necessary, but 5200mah should still get me about 15 minutes of reserved (read: not-banging-the-sticks-around) flight I would think.

Also not sure on the Gimbal. Using a mobius, so I'm sure that limits me if I want something I don't have to secure the camera to with duct tape and rubber bands.

Hey,

I had a very similar setup which I have recently taken apart to make into a larger quad and use the motors on a QAV500.

With regards to the FC, I had an APM 2.6 which I now moved over to the QAV500 on it and used a 3D printed vibration isolated mount to remove as many vibrations as possible, the GPS doesn't really need any calibration, the compass does but it's a simple matter of placing the craft on each of it's axis and hitting the calibrate button in mission planner.

What problems are you having exactly? I've had the APM for over 1.5 years and I haven't had significatn problems other than it's GPS hold isn't as good as the Naza in my opinion but other than that it's far superior with it's connectivitiy to the laptops or phone/tablet using a telemetry module, mission planning etc is also excellent and a lot of fun.

Looking at your shopping list, I wonder if the motors aren't a little low KV for 13 inch props? I was running 13 inch on 850KV and it had heaps of power and the motors barely got warm (3525 850Kv Multistars). If I had to purchase again I would go for 4000 / 800 or 750kv as at max power the motors aren't rated for so much power.

With regards to your gimbal question, I was using the Tarot-2D gopro gimbal and it was ok but it would often freak out when the vibrations were a little too high and it would twitch and loose stability. After hours and hours of tuning I finally got it to work ok, but in hindsight I would go for a DYS gimbal with an Alexmos board.

The folding frame is great and if you need some retractable landing gear for the hex, let me know, I have a set which I can't use now

Looking forward to build pics!

 

[Stradawhovious]

Thanks guys! I actually broke down and ordered a NAZA lite FC. I figure it will just be easier in the long run. Not as many bells and whistles as some of the others, but really all I need this thing to do is stay where I put it, and come home when I'm done, or it loses signal. Not so much looking for waypoints or mission planning. A few bateries through my friend's Flamewheel (NAZA lite) and I was convinced it would do everything I asked with minimal programming headache.

nilsen... I may be interested in your retracts depending on price, but if we're being honest, is it anything more than a novelty? By that I mean does having the retracts offer more benefit to flight than the extra weight detracts from it? I will admit, watching the videos of those retracts makes the the gear junkie in me go "Oooooooo...". Then my immediate afterthough is that I would want the fixed LG to hit the ground first in hopes of saving the gimbal and camera in the event of a crash.

As far as the motors being underpowered, I guess I will have to cross that bridge when I come to it. It's too late to change the list now, since it's all en route. With my performance demands being what they are for this bird, I don't think there will be an issue. I'm not looking for speed or agility, just decent flight times and GPS hold.

 

[nilsen]

Thanks guys! I actually broke down and ordered a NAZA lite FC. I figure it will just be easier in the long run. Not as many bells and whistles as some of the others, but really all I need this thing to do is stay where I put it, and come home when I'm done, or it loses signal. Not so much looking for waypoints or mission planning. A few bateries through my friend's Flamewheel (NAZA lite) and I was convinced it would do everything I asked with minimal programming headache.

nilsen... I may be interested in your retracts depending on price, but if we're being honest, is it anything more than a novelty? By that I mean does having the retracts offer more benefit to flight than the extra weight detracts from it? I will admit, watching the videos of those retracts makes the the gear junkie in me go "Oooooooo...". Then my immediate afterthough is that I would want the fixed LG to hit the ground first in hopes of saving the gimbal and camera in the event of a crash.

As far as the motors being underpowered, I guess I will have to cross that bridge when I come to it. It's too late to change the list now, since it's all en route. With my performance demands being what they are for this bird, I don't think there will be an issue. I'm not looking for speed or agility, just decent flight times and GPS hold.

Excellent, I don't actually mean underpowered, I mean they're overpowered They are meant for a larger prop but will work, albeit at a slightly higher throttle.

The landing gear are certainly not necessary, I purchased them so that I could tilt the gimbal right down without seeing the legs in the frame as it kind of ruins those kind of shots with legs swinging in and out of frame.

I bought them on Banggood and they're CF but a little too long, they are these ones: http://www.banggood.com/HML650-Retractable-Folding-Landing-Gear-For-Tarot-650-680pro-HMF-S550-p-941639.html

I don't want much for them, I just really don't want them to go to waste, that's all
If you PM me your address, I'll find out the shipping cost and let you know.

 

[Stradawhovious]

I don't want much for them, I just really don't want them to go to waste, that's all
If you PM me your address, I'll find out the shipping cost and let you know.

Sent.