What is the most indestructable plane that I can teach some kids to fly on?

[shimmy]

Chad,

I love your site and all the great articles.

I am looking for an indestructible plane to teach some kids to fly on. I would think that an EPP pusher with wide wings and a dihedral would be good. Sort of a Easy Star/Bixler but made out of EPP , so that it would bounce. Perhaps even an extra long nose or replaceable nose would be a good idea.

Is there anything like that around that you know of?

I found a EPP pusher sea plane on eBay. No dihedral on it. I am hesitant to try it because no one I know has every seen it.

Any suggestions?

Shimmy

 

[xuzme720]

The Bixler/AXN/Radian types seem to fit that bill even though they aren't EPP. I've seen some crash hard enough to completely destroy lesser birds and come back to fly again. Bruce even brought one back that I was sure was done in...
Here is the video showing the aftermath...

I can't find the video where he fixes that one but here is another foam repair that might help if the worst does happen...

 

[Tritium]

http://www.crashtesthobby.com/pelican-34.html

Thurmond

 

[ofiesens2]

If you are looking for cheap repairs, then go with either a pusher or the FT Flyer. The FT Flyer only costs a dollar for a whole new airplane. If you are more worried about electronic repairs, then you should probably go with a pusher to protect the motor and prop. Also, a prop-in-slot has the same effect.

 

[Fastlearner]

FT Delta. The way Josh designed the KF step makes the airframe extremely tough. The attached picture shows the black Delta on the left it's been crashed over 20 times and the power pod with it is been crashed at least 10 if not 15 times. I just finished transplanting the servos and control horns to the new white one. Pretreat the foamboard with Minwax before cutting out the parts then hot glue all of the pieces together. Seal the edges with hot glue.

 

[rcspaceflight]

I built a plane out of Flip Side foam board, which is just like Elmer's brand, and I don't think I ever broke the plane. I had the wings rubber banded on, which helped A LOT. Dollar Tree foam board is nice and light, but it's very vulnerable to water. Flip Side (and Elmer's) are water resistant as is, weigh twice as much, but can handle a beating a lot better.

I plan on building a plane this week that I'm excited about. http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?8257-Simple-Twin-Trainer I can't rubber band the wings on that design, but adding a Nerf football to the nose will let it bounce and absorb the impact.

 

[shimmy]

Thanks for all the reply's

I am not looking for something that is easily reparable. I want it to not require any repairs.
I am aiming for a plane that when the kids crash it, I wipe off the dirt and say "OK, lets try that again"


I think that crashtesthobby has the right idea as does rcspaceflight with the nerf football. I am not in the position to be able to scratch build. I need a real simple kit that requires some assembly.

This kit piques my interest, even though there is no dihedral.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/YG-Big-Cosy...Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cd65f534c

I like the idea that the prop is well protected. I would prefer going with a known solution.

Is there a reason that no one makes a pusher Bixelr/AXN/EasyStar out of EPP? Is it too heavy ?

 

[Craftydan]

EPP is a pretty floppy material, and while bouncy it isn't indistructable.

It typically needs spars and supports to keep the structure ridged enough to be controllable, which negates most of it's benefits. Larger EPP airframes are usually either heavily re-enforced, poor flyers, or both. it does make great indoor flyers, however you usually need a fairly large venu for those.

As for repair, I think you'll need to embrace the crash. You will crash. You will need to repair. You will get lucky some times and not *need* to repair following a crash . . . but be prepared. In this the swappable airframes excel -- you can build a few FT flyer airframes and swap out the power pod when it needs repair -- but if you feel you can't scratchbuild(are you sure? it's a lot easier than you think!), that's not an option.

Flying wings are usually *VERY* crash resistant, but they're also tricky to fly -- *NOT FOR BEGINNERS*. Other than those, there's not much else out there that's damage resistant.

 

[Ron B]

I am building the smash drone and plan on doing like rcsf did.
I bought a sponge in the automotive area at $ tree that is really light weight and plan on cutting it down and mounting on the nose to help with crash resistance. If it works it could help in other designs that are pusher type planes.
I agree with Dan about crashing but I want to try to minimize damage and be able to spend more time flying and less time repairing.

 

[shimmy]

Hi,

I have lots of experience repairing my Bixler and I had a different brand Easy Star that I fixed several times.
I can do it, but it takes time. I don't want to scratch build because I don't have the time. When I can make the hour or two for flying I am happy.

I want something that don't have to repair, because if the kids crash it, we are done flying for the day. I want to let them learn.

I know of the Tek Sumo and other flying wings. They will be too hard for beginners (although it is on my wish/shopping list).

I saw a video on YouTube of a guy who built a really tough RC plane to let his kids learn on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tznGwbPwrpw

What impressed me is when the little boy smashed the plane into the concrete. That is how tough I want it.

 

[DDSFlyer]

wait until the new Hobby Zone Super Cub comes out with SAFE technology. It'll be a great trainer for the kids and it's super easy to repair. I've repaired mine so many times with every type of repair (packing tape, epoxy, hot glue, gorilla glue) that I've learned almost every repair from that plane (it was my first one) It still flies and I've upgraded it and it looks a little on the worn side, but I may still fly it as is or get new parts and swap out the electronics to make a clean slate one with ailerons. That's the other thing about it, the replacement parts are at your local hobby shop and are cheap! My friend and I built one from the spare parts when his dad crashed his into the street. Didn't take long and even though we could've fixed it, we ended up getting enough parts to make two!

 

[rcspaceflight]

I agree that you can't avoid crashes and you can't avoid repairs.

There are more lessons with RC aviation than just learning how to fly an RC plane. Building and repairing is half the fun.

I think the most important thing to look for is a plane that protects the propeller, motor, and battery. Most RC planes don't break with the average crash. It's the props that break and going threw a few bags of props in 10 minutes is frustrating.

I used to want to build an indestructible plane. I never tried a design I had. It was a twin boom pusher plane and the nose was going to be a tennis ball held to the fuselage/motor with four wire safety flags. You can't break steel, you can only bend it. So the logic is that the wires would absorb the impact like a spring. Once in a while you may have to straighten the wire, but it should last a long time.

 

[rockets4kids]

Pushers are not a panacea for crashes, and the reasons why are not at all obvious.

In a pusher, the weight of the motor is behind the center of gravity. This requires an equal amount of weight in front of the CG to balance it out. You can either do this with a lot of weight close to the wing, or with a little bit of weight well forward in the nose. Either case has it's problems.

The number one factor leading to damage in a crash is weight. The best way to avoid damage in a crash is to build/fly as light as you can. A large battery will lead to damage from even minor crashes. Putting a small battery further helps somewhat, but then you have a large lever arm between the nose and the wing. You can, of course, strengthen this, but then you get back to the weight problem.

There is a *lot* to be said for a tractor trainer. However, keep the same things in mind. Pick one that can be balanced with a small battery. Use a prop saver. Know that the point of prop savers are not so much to save your prop, but to prevent your motor shaft from being damaged in a crash. You *are* going to lose some props. Don't worry about it. Props are cheap. A *lot* cheaper than the batteries you are going to lose if your pusher plane crashes on a hard surface.

 

[dwardio]

Sorry, but the completely impervious and kid-proof aircraft you seek just doesn't exist.

I would recommend something like a HobbyZone SuperCub DSM. Why? Well, they have very forgiving flight characteristics and are better suited to teaching proper flight techniques. Most importantly, if you have a hobby shop within driving distance, you'll be able to walk in and buy every single part that can break. Much better than having to order parts! Its foam components are very easy to repair-- even a broken fuselage is just a matter of a couple of BBQ skewers and either Welders or Gorilla glue.

Since HZ is upgrading the SuperCub to SAFE technology this spring, you'll start to see the older DSM model deeply discounted. If you do happen to pick one of the old ones up, be sure that the very first thing you do is disconnect the ACT (Anti Crash Technology) sensors from the receiver brick. The new SAFE system is really good, but ACT was the devil's spawn and crashed any number of perfectly good aircraft.

Good Luck!

 

[rcspaceflight]

Pushers are not a panacea for crashes, and the reasons why are not at all obvious.

In a pusher, the weight of the motor is behind the center of gravity. This requires an equal amount of weight in front of the CG to balance it out. You can either do this with a lot of weight close to the wing, or with a little bit of weight well forward in the nose. Either case has it's problems.

The number one factor leading to damage in a crash is weight. The best way to avoid damage in a crash is to build/fly as light as you can. A large battery will lead to damage from even minor crashes. Putting a small battery further helps somewhat, but then you have a large lever arm between the nose and the wing. You can, of course, strengthen this, but then you get back to the weight problem.

There is a *lot* to be said for a tractor trainer. However, keep the same things in mind. Pick one that can be balanced with a small battery. Use a prop saver. Know that the point of prop savers are not so much to save your prop, but to prevent your motor shaft from being damaged in a crash. You *are* going to lose some props. Don't worry about it. Props are cheap. A *lot* cheaper than the batteries you are going to lose if your pusher plane crashes on a hard surface.

Your points about the disadvantages of a pusher plane is exactly why I'm going with a twin engine tracker plane with a long motorless nose as my beater plane. (By "long" I mean just long enough that the nose and wingtips take all of the damage.) The twin engine route isn't the most obvious, but when looking at all of the factors carefully, it becomes the most logical.

Or I was thinking that a single engine tracker with the motor directly in front of the wing, but then have twin booms extend beyond the prop to protect it. But that would look really weird.

 

[JoeDickson]

I have the HZ Duet and love it! My first plane. I had to glue the nose once (cosmetic repair) but avoiding high winds I rarely crash with this plane. I think I've had three crashes out of dozens of flights. It's so cheap $60 RTF just buy another one if it's totaled. I bought an on sale park jet (mini skyfun) but I think I need an easier bank and yank flyer (FT Delta?) as the park jet was so fast I had a death grip on the radio. That one I crashed pretty good The duet has dual props that are kind of protected by the nose. The FT guys had it on one of their videos. Josh B. mentioned his kids really liked the Duet in one of the podcasts.

 

[SteevyT]

If you do happen to pick one of the old ones up, be sure that the very first thing you do is disconnect the ACT (Anti Crash Technology) sensors from the receiver brick. The new SAFE system is really good, but ACT was the devil's spawn and crashed any number of perfectly good aircraft.

My younger brother lost a plane because of that. Flying along and then suddenly a nose dive into the ground.

 

[tramsgar]

I've seen an FT Flyer free fall "from the sky" straight into the ground where it buried the engine. We pulled it out, cleaned out the dirt from the engine, pushed the bell back in position, threw on a new prop and you could not tell what had happened. We just threw it into the air again. OTOH I've also seen the same plane, reinforced, hit a tree and be ripped to shreds... Planes should not be totally crash proof in case they hit something alive or expensive =).

 

[KRAR]

No such thing as indestructible... The most durable stuff I have come across is EPP foam(twisted hobbies.com) but they are not trainers. If you have the money the best plane to get would be the apprentice 15e from horizonhobby.com...It has three flight envelopes and is by far the easiest plane to fly and learn off of. See flite tests review here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8H02ZaRjQU. You could take the plane off and land it for your kids... and pass the controller between the three of you. I highly recommend getting your kids to fly on a simulator.

 

[orcusomega]

I highly recommend getting your kids to fly on a simulator.

+1 - my son loves video games, and we use the SIM to learn to fly and play at the same time